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The gen has the blue masking tape on the cushion or always on the left/top. Gen like quality of the rep will be judged from 1-10 (10 being like gen). Notice that this rating CHANGES based on the pictures being compared since the differences may or may not be spotted at another set of comparison shots. The gen used in the comparison is a random serial number model. The rep used is from Timesshop (Mark). It is from the noob factory. This particular one has the A2836 movement. Larger size pictures available in album The comparison is broken down into components of the watch. Case/Bezel Front Elements/Dial Bracelet/Clasp Backside/SEL Fitment Feel in Hand Feel on Wrist Movement Adjustments Suggested Improvements Case/Bezel: 1. Front - Overall:Dial: 9 - Dial maker surroundings being thicker and uneven lume Hands: 8 - all hands are noticeably skinner on the gen; makes it appear longer but actually same lengths Bezel: 8.5 - Gen's engraving is a bit deeper and the color is slightly silver. Rep and gen has 24 clicks but the gen adjustments are consistent through-out. Gen is also quieter when adjusting. My rep had a 1/3 minute of free play. SEL: 8 (the gen SELs sit more flush with the case). Crown Guard: 7.5 (noticeably rounder on the rep, sharp straight edges on the gen) 2. Bezel Edge (close up): You can see the gen has slightly polished teeth while the rep is simply raw (drilled) finish. When you run your fingers over the teeth, the rep is slightly smooth whereas the gen is pointy. 3. Bezel Engraving (close up): Here you can see the differences not only in depth and width of the engraving but also the style of font (notice the 1 has a curved top on the gen and the 8 is slightly more squared). The picture does not show this, but the color is slightly different on the gen; since the gen's numbers are colored with platinum its slightly gray (especially on the triangle). 4. Side: Side: 8 - Overall same dimension but the ends are not as sharp, the gen is quite pointy Crown: 8 - Very good overall, dimension appears to be the same, again sharper teeth on the gen. Front Elements/Dial: 5. Crystal and Bezel (6 inches from watch): Cyclops: 5 Obviously no AR on the rep, also the rep seems to magnify too much... there's a lot more distortion in the magnification on the rep. Rehaut engraving: 8.5 - Sharper and deeper on the gen, of course its aligned perfectly on the gen, reps may have a good alignment of rehaut Crystal: 9 - The crystal on the gen has a slightly polished edge giving it a more defined look. Notice that the gen has more spacing between the crystal and the inner edge of the bezel. The laser etched logo on the rep is too big; you can barely see it with the naked eye on the gen. The logo is drawn by dots on the gen rather than straight lines on the rep. 6. Dial and Hands Printing: 8 - The "GMT - MASTER II" printing on the rep is slightly darker and spacing is a bit off from gen, the print also looks 3d on the gen rather than flat on the rep. Overall font size and color (on the white wording) is quite good. The hole in the coronet is noticeably bigger in the rep. Indexes: 8 - quite good from this view, aside from having slightly thicker surrounds the lume is not as applied as evenly as the gen. you can also see the gen has a much more polished look, the rep has more sharper corners at 6 and 9; the triangle index is the biggest difference between the watches here (due to the application of the lume) Hour Hand: 7.5 - appears to have the same length as gen, but is slightly fatter. the triangle is also larger on the rep; edges are not as clean) Minute Hand: 8.5 - appears to have the same length as gen, but is slightly fatter than gen. Again, edges are not as clean as gen Second Hand: 9 - the hands on the rep is a bit thicker than the gen; especially towards the outside edge. The gen hands has a slightly tapered appearance GMT Hand: 8 - color is quite close in the rep, but the paint/print is completely different than gen. on the gen you can see the paint is thick and is slightly raised, the rep appears flat; triangle is almost identical; ever so slightly thicker around the lume for the rep. This rep has the ICHS but that is hardly ever noticeable; I bet 8/10 gen owners would not know if the GMT hand sits above or below the hour hand... 7. Cyclops and Date wheel Cyclops: 5 - obviously no AR on the rep, but this can be modded. The magnification is higher on the rep. You can also notice more distortion in the magnification. The gen's magnified date still retains the rectangular appearance. Date Wheel: 6 - The date wheel on the rep is completely different specially the number 1. On the gen, the number 1 is more of a letter "I". You can also see 2 and 3s have tails on the gen. Other numbers are also different but 1 2 and 3 are most noticeable. Bracelet/Clasp: 8. Brushing and PCL: 9 (7.5 before custom brushing) - I polished and brushed the rep links myself. Originally the rep's brushing is much thicker than the gen. The thicker brushing gave the bracelet a brighter appearance. Polish is very similar on both models. 7. Flexibility: 6.5 - The rep's bracelet feels quite cheap when held, it rattles more than the gen. The rep bracelet has more lateral movement than gen. The gen links are held on much more tightly. 9. Clasp: 5 - This is the biggest flaw of the rep. The clasp edges are very poor compared to the gen. The coronet on the clasp has a more web like appearance on the rep. Each of the spokes on the gen's crown has more clearly defined spaces. The securing cap is also poorly defined on the rep; it is slightly rounded on the inside edge. The securing cap also does not sit flush with the rest of the clasp. 10. Clasp Adjustments/Inside: 7 - Biggest difference is the engraving inside the clasp. The rep's engraving is thin. I have also sharpied my rep, but still does not have the same appearance in color as the gen. The inside of the gen clasp is sand blasted, the rep has a smoother flat finish. The fine adjustment is there, but its much harder to adjust on the rep. I can easily move the fine adjustment on the gen. The easy link works just like gen, but does not snap in as hard. The rep also seems to scratch the PCL under the clasp more easily than the gen. Backside/SEL Fitment 11. SEL: 5 - It just looks bad on the rep, but in reality the fitment is quite secure. Although, I did modify the fitment and spring bars on the rep. The SEL also does not sit flush with the case on the rep. 12. Case Corners: 8 - This difference is rarely pointed out. On the gen the corners are pointy and sharp. The rep has more rounded corners, probably from polishing the case. 13. Case Back: 8.5 - Sharper teeth on the gen, although the rep may be sharper when new. The brushed part of the case back is smaller on the gen. 14. Backside of Crown Guard: 8 - The gen wraps the crown more than the rep, also much straighter edges than the rep. Not noticeable when worn. Feel in Hand 15. Weight: 9.5 - The rep feels about the pretty much the same as the gen. 16. Feel: 8 - The bracelet and clasp brings this down. Again the entire bracelet is nosier and feels flimsier. Perhaps tightening the permanent links would improve the bracelet feel. Feel on Wrist 17. Comfort: 9 - Rep is just as comfortable to wear. Sets and sizes the same way as the gen. Oiling the bracelet on both models benefit contributes to the comfort as well. 18. Feel: 9 - Feels the same in weight and proportion. Again the bracelet rattles with a more canny sound than the gen. Movement Adjustments The adjustments are shown below. I actually prefer the adjustment settings of the rep than the gen . It's easier to set the date and times on the rep. It has been noted that with A2836 reps, the GMT hand experiences issues. I have seen the GMT hand on my watch lag or stop moving from time to time (usually happens after infrequent use). I have not experience it stopping while being worn. Gen: Unscrewed: winding (CW) First notch: +/- hour hand (1 hour increment) +/- Date (hour hand needs to go around 24 times) (CW/CCW) Second notch: +/- Hour, GMT and minute hands (CW/CCW) Rep: Unscrewed: winding (CW) First notch: +date (CW) +GMT hand (1 hour increment) (CCW) Second notch: +/- main hour and minute (CCW/CW) Suggested Improvements Listed in order of importance: [*]Clasp - needs much more definition in the coronet and securing cap [*]Bracelet Links - needs to be tighten to lessen lateral movement [*]AR Cyclops - very obvious difference from afar [*]Crystal Beveled Edge/Spacing - very easy to spot at wrist distance, the gen crystal seems to shine around the edges [*]Date Wheel - noticeable when up close; especially number "1" [*]Bezel Engraving - more noticeable during side viewing, slightly different color on rep [*]Crown Guard - quite good at this point, but can be straighter, most of the definition of the CG is lost due to heavy polishing... [*]Bezel Edge - very noticeable difference when touched... hard to tell from afar; however the grooves between the teeth are slightly polished on the gen [*]Brushing of the Bracelet - the brushing from the factory is thicker than the gen; it actually gave the bracelet a brighter look than gen. Easy to fix with some scotch bright! Overall, the noob GMT rep is quite good. It was quite hard to tell which was the gen on certain pictures. The dial is very good on the rep as well as the case dimension and looks. The biggest downfall of the rep is the bracelet and clasp. However the AR cyclops would be a great modification as this can be a telltale sign of a rep.

Does anyone know if there's any accurate dressy Patek reps? I would buy one, but it would have to be good to go out of the box, as frankening a Patek seems out of the question...

i have been looking for 2 years if anyone knows where to look or has one for sale. Please let me know.

Takin' the wif out for a nice dinner and hotel tonight... also takin' the AP, but leavin' the kids with Grandma!

Is there any accurate dressy replica? Most focus seem to be on the big diver/chronograph style watches, not the simple understated ones like the Pateks mentioned here.

Or under UV bulb which makes lume nuclear.

But I was planning to replace my nightstand lamp with my explorer.

Dealers cheat on their lume pics. Don't take them at face value.

One note. A Lot of members here are Sub freaks like me for a long time. Now you come to RWG and take the"who has the best Sub" to a new Level. That's the first time that a member comes with his own sourced Sub in parts. Simply amazing. Thanks for that.

Why wouldn't you buy a gen? Especially a vintage gen. You can get vintage Omegas for $300-$600 today. A used well kept Gen is a great bargain. In 1998 I bought a 1957 Oyster Perpetual that I felt was an incredible value. I shop at Lord & Taylor.. I also shop at Target .. My watch buying is no different. Some of the ETA engined Reps are exceptional values for what you are getting. I think it's foolish to paint yourself into a corner. Buy a well made watch(Gen or Rep)-wear it- be happy or Buy an OK watch-Mod it- be happy or Buy a box of parts- assemble it- be happy.

I'm with the North Texan. See, I've been kicking myself ever since I missed dylan's sales listing for his VCO Deep Stream. Mark this down: January 20, 2012: The Day the Kicking Stopped! Incidentally, have you ever wondered -like I've wondered- why you haven't seen any shots of VCOs on the gray leather strap? I found out this evening. It's because that strap's a size-10 pain-in-the-neck to mount!

@ Star69 , mini GTG with either Tribal or Zeleni. @ Ronin that the nicest 1675 if seen in years Wearing my gift form this community Have a nice day Cats

Still PP. But better picture

MC for WC

Yes, Superlative, maybe you could point him to some members who can provide gen parts for these watches. I hear the hands are very hard to source.

I picked it up from a dealer known as replicamake...now no longer deals on the forums due to poor response to customers. The watches are all the same from any of the dealers, main thing is to find a dealer you want to deal with and check the qc pics thoroughly.

I bought a Saddleback leather wallet last year. they are basically indestructable and have a 100 year guarantee. For 45 bucks you cant go wrong!

I currently have an order with Angus. To give you an idea on how patient i've been, I paid for the order in full two weeks ago. Over this time period, I've had to reject QC pics three times because of wrong datewheel colors and crooked dial/hour markers. It normally takes 2-3 days to get a reply from Angus, so each iteration can be quite frustrating. I was emailing them all week, but they chose to not reply until the night before China's one-week holiday to send me "updated" QC pics, which were obviously recycled pictures from the first time. Now, I will have to wait another week due to the holiday before there is any activity from them again. So it will be three weeks in total with still no guarantee that they have the watch as advertised on their website. Customer service is very polite, but ineffective. Angus is a nice guy, but I wasn't really here to make friends; I just want the right watch shipped ASAP. This was my first transaction with PT, and so far I am far from being impressed. Other dealers would have the watch in my hands within 4-5 days or so. I'm really trying, but my patience is really running thin.

a couple more shots while i'm here and the money shot by PeteM