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Showing most liked content since 08/19/2009 in all areas

  1. 15 likes
    Please excuse me for my strong language but I'm getting a little bit fed up with all the noobs lately. No, not because they are new and ask questions... Because they show NO courtesy. Off course I don't want to treat all noobs alike but l get the feeling it is getting worse. I (or other existing members) type, a sometimes extensive reply or explanation and not even a 'thanks' or 'thank you' will follow. Nothing..... The noob just asks questions like a mad man, want to gather all the info yesterday, wants to buy a rep like he is at WalMart, complains and bitches about the smallest details, asks mechanical help when in most cases he himself messes up a movement etc. without even the smallest regard for this board and it's members. And sometimes.... From all these noobs a valuable new member will arise who's soul purpose is not to leech this board and all it's members for what they know and have. I have seen some valuable new members the last months like MD2020 for instance and for that I applaud! And for all you other blood sucking noobs: think about the existing members that reply to you post. Without some courtesy and good manners you probably won't get any help next time you are in need.....
  2. 15 likes
    Behavior: [1] - Read up before asking! There are tons of guides, FAQs and lots of other info. [2] - Use the search function before posting. Chances are your question has already been answered. [3] - Respect the netiquette: Lurk and get to know the forum before you post. [4] - Keep the focus: Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved, locked or simply be deleted. [5] - NEVER use the REAL name or any other info that can reveal the real identity of other members. If you feel like posting your full real name, please do so, but unless you have a written permission to post somebody else's name, DON'T! [6] - Anything discussions regarding politics and/or religion in anyway will be closed or deleted unless determined to be pertinent by admins/mods. [7] - Be nice to each other and respect the admin team and moderators. No personal attacks. In particular, malicious comments that insult others based on race, gender, religion, nationality, or sexual preference will not be tolerated. The fastest way to get removed from the community is to turn a discussion into a personal confrontation. [8] - No cursing, particularly if the words are directed at another person on the board. These words generate bad blood too easily. There are ways to get your words and phrasing across without typing the cussword. Remember, some people swear all the time and others don't. Cuss less -- and think more --before posting [9] - You are permitted a maximum of one account, active or inactive. If you choose to ignore this important restriction, all your accounts will be disabled. If you require a temporary user name for any reason, please contact one of the admins or moderators. If you require a user name change, contact one of the admins or moderators. If you have forgotten your log in details and are unable to retrieve them via the system, do not create a new account; contact one of the admins or moderators. [10] - All publicly displayed messages are limited to the English language. This includes posts, titles, signatures, and any attachments or other forms of public display. [11] - Do not send questions pertaining to topics of discussion on this board via personal messages or email to Moderators or Admins, they will most likely be ignored or deleted. [12] - Do not use nicknames that are racist, offend others Ethnic Origin, cultural, religious defamation, names that reflect on this website, or can be considered by any other means, offensive. [13] - Any posts/avatars/signatures containing any sexual content, people with a minimal or no amount of clothes on, etc. will be removed. The "Gentlemans lounge" and "Looney bin"-forums are excluded from this rule. These forums are to be considered as NOT SAFE FOR WORK, so enter at your own risk! [14] - You may not post, transmit or advertise your website, chain letters, pyramid, money schemes, lotteries, raffles, etc. The only advertising we allow is for stuff going on at our forum. [15] - We have NO respect for troublemakers or trolls. If you are not here to contribute or do some peaceful reading, we suggest you find yourself another board. Trolls and troublemakers will be banned at the admin/co-admins/moderators discretion. [16] - If you SPAM our members in any manner, your account will be disabled. Do not contact anyone to suggest your product or service who is not explicitly expecting you to contact them. [17] - Trade offers should always be posted in the classifieds section. Trade offers posted outside of this forum will be delete immediately. [18] - This forum is NOT a place for free speech. We are all for free speech and we rarly censor out members, but ultimately this is a private community and we decide what is allowed to post and not. [19] - No Pornographic, adult or warez content are allowed to be posted. The "Gentlemans lounge" and "Looney bin" forums are excluded from this rule. These forums are to be considered as NOT SAFE FOR WORK, so enter at your own risk! [20] - If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective moderator and if the moderator can't help you send a private message to Admin or one of the co-admins. [21] - Any abuse to administrators/moderators can result in an immediate ban from the board. [22] - All instructions from moderators and admins are to be followed. Failing to do so will either get you a warning, get your account suspended or banned. [23] - Moderators and admins are allowed to edit/delete/move/close any posts they wish under reason. If you wish to question a decision, you should PM the moderator or admin in question and ask the reason. [24] - The admin can ban any member on the board with/without reason. [25] - Do not visit an AD (Authentic Dealer) with your watch and show it of as the real thing. If you do so, we are not interested in hearing about it. Such post will be deleted. [26] - NO pictures should be posted on the genuine time piece forums by the members of this forum. A violation of this rule will get you permanently banned. Our little hobby does not need this kind of attention. Posting: [1] - Use a title that describes the content of your post. Don't use all caps or special characters to draw attention. [2] - Never post the same post in other sections. Double posts/cross posts will be deleted. [3] - When posting images, resize them to a maximum of 800x600 pixels. Any larger images will most likely be deleted. You can upload your files directly, but we prefer that you host the images on your own server or use an external image host like Imageshack or others. A manual on how to post images using an external host can be found here. [4] - How NOT to post on this forum: 5 minutes after your initial post you reply to your own post writing something like "Why is nobody helping me? I'm sure you know the answer". Once somebody replies to your thread but doesn't give you exactly the answer you've been expecting you insult them. [5] - Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you! [6] - Don't post just to increase your number of posts. If you have nothing to say on a certain matter then don't post. The number of posts on this board has no direct relation to the experience of a member. Experience has taught us that it is not possible to create simple rules that cover every possible situation. Nor is it possible to anticipate the lengths to which an ill-intentioned person may go to create a way to make themselves a real pain, yet still somehow stay within the published rules. We therefore reserve the right to refuse membership to anyone at anytime, if we deem it necessary to do so. We will always try to give individuals the benefit of the doubt and communicate via PMs or email before taking any action, but there are only so many hours in the day, and we all have day jobs. The way we see this is fairly simple; we are investing countless hours in starting and maintaining this site. We hope it will continue indefinitely. We will therefore do everything we can to maintain a friendly environment for all concerned. The bottom line? We see the people who visit this site as our friends and guests. We intend to host an open house party, not a rock fight -- and we hope that you will take this spirit to heart.If we miss any posts or threads that cross these lines, we apologize. There's no way we can moderate these forums without an active core of members who share the values expressed here. If you do not share these values, we encourage you to find another board that is operating at your level of karma. These rules can be changed without notice.
  3. 12 likes
    So you've got the QC images or your brand new best replica, like, ever, with that incabloc you always dreamed of, as swiss as cheese, but what about your timegrapher results? What dahell are those? Presets Beat Number Frequency, the vibration of a movement. The number of balance wheel swings per hour or how many times the watch ticks per hour. This is a preset, depends on the watch you order. 14,400 bph = 4 beats per second 18,000 bph = 5 beats per second 21,600 bph = 6 beats per second 28,800 bph = 8 beats per second etc Lift Angle The angle the balance passes through while interacting with the pallet fork. Important to be set correctly in order to calculate the Amplitude. This preset is per caliber specs. Most modern watches have a lift angle of 50 - 52 degrees. Generally lift angles range from 44 to 58 degrees. Some other settings are present, for instance Gen co-axials angle is 30 degrees. Results Rate How fast / slow the movement runs (in seconds per day) great : +/- 5 s/d acceptable : +/- 12 s/d If higher / lower? It is possible to adjust this yourself or ask your dealer to nudge it a bit. Amplitude The measure of the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel, in either direction. Amplitude is higher when a watch is lying flat and usually falls when the watch is in a vertical position, due to increased friction. Amplitude can also fall as the watch winds down and the mainspring delivers less power. Amplitude is a good indicator of the movements health and if is too high or too low, or that changes too much in different positions, can indicate a problem with the movement. great : 270-310 acceptable : 250-270 If higher / lower? Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced Beat Error The amount of time by which the duration of swing differs from one side to the other in the oscillation of a balance wheel. Generally speaking to get a beat error of zero, the roller jewel in the pallet fork must be perfectly centered. great : 0.0-0.5 ms acceptable : 0.6-1 ms If higher? Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced. * Please note that if you are reading your QC from the dealer, you will generally receive only the results of the watch lying flat. All the above recommended measurements are from that position. The measurements in other positions may vary
  4. 12 likes
    So here it is guys. I never thought there would be so much interest in this review. My post on the announcement of this review led to a lot of views and replies. That was very cool and flattering. I hope I can now live up to all the high expectations! First off I would like to thank Angus from Puretime for sending me this movement to review. He is one of the few dealers that is really engaged with all the different fora. As a matter of fact he sent me an entire watch. To my best of knowledge this specific 3135 (short A3135-v2) copy variant is only available at Puretime. I will do a short review of the entire watch when I put it up for sale and will ad a link here. But for now I will concentrate on sèc the movement. So enough with this colloq advertisement, on to the review To manage some expectations I would like to say that I did not have a genuine 3135 at hand to do a thorough 1-on-1 comparison nor did I have spare Rolex parts laying around. I’m blessed with a supplier that lives 10 car minutes away so I don’t need to keep an expensive stock of genuine spare parts. I serviced several gen 3135’s so my comments will be based on my experience. I will also use pictures of the genuine movement of the net to clarify certain things. This review is not an exact science meaning there is a possibility I will overlook certain aspects of the movement: mechanical and visual. Please feel free to ad them in the comments below. I pondered a while about the best way to do this review. I know 10:10 watchmaker did a tear-down of the Yuki 3135 (short Y3135) and I know Watcher did a short photo review of it. With their courtesy I will be using some pictures from them in this review. In my opinion this review would be the best of use if I would compare the A3135 to the Y3135 and the genuine 3135. A big challenge to do so. I will review the A3135 on a couple of aspects, and where possible I will involve the Y3135 and genuine 3135. I’m just making this up while I'm writing this …. Index 1. Looks 2. Performance 3. Interchangeability 4.Summary Looks Comparing the Y335 and A3135 to the genuine we can see a lot of visual differences. I tried to highlight the main differences in the picture. I very well could have missed some but it gives you a good Idea. Overall I would say the A3135 wins the ‘looks-competition’ hands down. Mainly because of the very gen-like engravements. Also the finish is way better than that of the Y3135. The bridges are nicely beveled, striping is nice and fine and the pearlage is ok. The balance apposed to the Y3135 has fake micro stella screws that ad to the overall gen-like appearance. More on that later. Both Y’s and A’s 3135 most noticeable difference with the genuine (apart from the engravements) is the balance. It’s not free sprung and therefore has two regulating arms instead of one. The winner of the looks competition: the A3135. One thing I did notice is that the serial# is missing. Angus posted a picture of an earlier prototype which did show the serial. I don’t know if the factory changed it’s mind or someone forgot to engrave it on this movement? Performance Well upon receiving the A3135 I tested it on the vibrograph. It showed very poor results as you can see on the picture below. With an amplitude of just 188 degees and +32 sec/fast a day this watch is not wearable in this condition. You are better off looking at the sun to know the correct time…. So the tear down begins. Know that all pictures were taken under a bright light.. which even would make Paris Hilton look like a pimple face . First we need to remove the auto wind-bridge to let down the main spring. The thing I noticed immediately is not only a visual difference to the genuine but also a difference in design. The A3135 does not have an extra shock absorber for the escape wheel. Something the Y3135 does have. A very nice feature which ads to the sturdiness of the movement. Also there was no oil on the jewel where auto winding intermediate gear is connected. A very critical spot as all the build up tension that is generated by the rotor is transferred to the main spring through that jewel. All rep movements come this way so nothing new.... Than for the balance. It is nowhere near the real deal when it comes to design and materials. A gen Rolex balance is free sprung. Hence the 1 arm. I won't go into details as this write up is already taking up enough of my time and energie but you can look it up on Google. Also the genuine Rolex balance has a Glucydur hair spring and Micro Stella regulating screws. This is just your typical rep balance with imitated non-functioning Micostella screws. Thereby this balance had coils that were out of alignment. You can see how the space between the coils at 1 is smaller than at 2. This was corrected so that all the coils are now evenly centered. Little blurry but you can see the difference. Also you can see how rough and unfinished the underside of the bridge is. But who cares. It does not affect anything. Here you can see the barrel arbour jewel. The spot where the most tension is generated in the entire movement. Also bone dry… Here you can see the train gear exposed. Also the Balance bridge regulator screws can be seen very clearly. Where the genuine balance bridge can be regulated by turning these screws (end shake adjustment) these are merely for show and non functional. They are one piece and force fitted into the base plate. They did oil the jewels of the train gear, up and down side. Most of the time when we see oil in rep movements these are the spots that get oiled. The reason for this is because they are easy accessible and quick to oil. Here you can see a dirty gear from the gear train.. So now let’s have a look at the dial side. Here we immediately see some major differences with the genuine. Not only in looks but also in function. I won’t go into the visual differences as they are irrelevant on this side of the movement and you can search for them yourself. I do however want to mention the small jewel that is meant to guide the date wheel. It is present on the Y3135 but on the A3135 they used a metal version. We all know jewels minimize friction so a jewel is preferred. However I could not determine whether it really affects date-change reliability as everything works like it should. Than there is the keyless works. Where the Y3135 mimics the keyless works very good the A3135 is totally different. Not only in looks but also design. I have no idea why they did this. So forget spare parts. Genuine Rolex parts will definitely not fit. Here you can see the dirty keyless works. The cut outs on the setting lever are really shallow (arrow). This makes it a little finicky to get the crown in date-set position as one easily pulls through the date position. You need to be really gentle, like with your girlfriend….does not affect anything other than you have to use some more 'finesse' when searching for the date set position. When I came to the main spring I immediately knew what caused the low amplitude and bad performance. Besides little oil throughout the movement the barrel and main spring were very dirty…. And this is how it looks after cleaning, the proper amount of braking grease on the barrel wall and oil on coils and floor. But proper oiling is for another day… To conclude I want to show you some pics of the reversing wheels. They are constructed completely different than the genuines. They can not be taken apart. The reversing wheels of the Y3135 are just like the genuine. At least in terms of construction. I can’t say anything about dimensions off course. Interchangeability Like I said before. I didn't have a genuine movement or parts laying around and I did not have the time or energy to go look up all the genuine dimensions. Therefor I will give you the dimensions of some critical parts of the A3135 and I will let you do you own investigation. What I do know a 100% sure is that the keyless works of the A3135 is not interchangeable with the genuine. Diameter balance wheel= 9,99mm Diameter date wheel= 21,75mm Height main spring= 0,95mm Diameter minute wheel= 1,02mm Diameter hour wheel= 1,45mm Diameter second hand post= 0,20mm Diameter reversing wheel= 7,00mm Diameter reversing wheel jewel hole= 0,25mm Overall movement diameter= 28,4mm Overall movement thickness (without rotor) 5,4mm Here is also a scan of the dial feet position. You can use it in your own build to decide if a genuine dial will fit. IMO the feet are at the right position. The thickness of the dial feet is 0,92mm (-actual size- with the dial feet circled in red) The stem’s thickness is indeed increased just like Angus mentioned to 0.55mm. Screw thread is 0,85mm Summary The A3135 mimics the Rolex 3135 very well but when it comes to construction and design the Y3135 wins. This is purely based on the fact that the Y3135 copied all the design features like the keyless, date wheel guiding jewel, escape wheel shock absorber perfectly. If it is looks you want than the A3135 wins. Both the Y3135 an A3135 have several tell signs but the A3135 just looks the most accurate. Off course mainly based on the nice engravements and overall finishing of the bridges. But neither will fool a watchmaker for a second off course. Most movements assembled in China are incorrectly oiled and dirty. For the A3135 his is no different. After service it can be as reliable as an ETA or clone. The Y3135 for that matter is designed almost identical to it's genuine counterpart so I believe that if serviced correctly the Y3135 can even be as reliable and sturdy as a genuine 3135 ...but now I'm getting out on a limb. So basically both movements have the potential to be reliable when serviced even though it asks a lot of skill and time from the watch maker to correct all the problems.... If I would service these for a living I would definitely charge more for these 3135 clones than a regular ETA oR clone. The 3135 clones are simply more sensitive to oiling and proper adjustment of parts to get it performing up to par. The A3135 from this review was fully cleaned and oiled according to the Rolex spec sheet. It is now running at an amplitude of 275 degrees and within COCS norms. This is the best this movement can do without replacing the main spring with a genuine. So why buy the A3135? For me the only advantage of the A and Y3135 for that matter is the crown position, ability to take genuine hands and genuine like 'time setting'. As Rolex has closed case backs no one will ever see the movement. And although the A3135 is accurately decorated and better finished, it still doesn’t fool anybody. So if looks don’t count and only mechanics and movement design matters the Y3135 would be a better choice….If you don’t care about crown position, gen hands and all that stuff just go for an ETA or clone. They are a lot cheaper, parts are widely available and they are virtually bullet proof after proper service. Food for thought The balance click on the A3135 was milled wrong making it impossible to tighten the screw. A washer needed to be added. The exact same thing applied to the Y3135 as did 10:10 repair mention in his review. Two different movements with the exact same strange production flaw…. Different movements same sub contractors? Who knows? Well that was all folks. Hope you liked it! Mark ------------------------ Performance shot after service. Running and performing flawlessly like a gen
  5. 12 likes
    Once upon a time, earlier this year, I fell victim to the alluring concept of the replica watch. By simply typing the words "replica watch" on google, many sites came up, but none of the reputable ones you will find in this forum. Instead, you will be plagued by the biggest ripoff scam websites on the internet. I have discovered the largest watch ripoff umbrella on the internet. The group of internet based companies have the same swiss upgrade gimmick and are based primarily out of New York. If you buy from one of the following sites, you WILL be ripped off!! I almost fell victim to one of these rip off sites and thank god I found a reputable rep forum that saved me. Here is what I know: - The dealer will convince you to do C.O.D or Wire Transfer. - If you are out of the USA, they will say that due to security and fraud that credit card orders will not be accepted. They will convince you to do a money wire since that is the next safest method since you will have their business bank account information. Little do you know that the info provided is not actually a bank account!! It is a routing number where your funds are redirected several times until it ends up in a pre-paid debit/credit card company. The money enters the fraudster's prepaid debit/credit card where the funds are withdrawn immediately. These pre-paid accounts are set up all over the United States and are extremely hard to track. There are many aliases and phone numbers that these scammers use. They don't really have a base of operations and work off pre-paid cell phone numbers. They have set up a fake rep review site called http://www.fakereviews.com and http://www.replicainspector.com. The pictures used on these sites are of actual gen watches!! Not the watch(es) you may or may not receive. How do I know so much? I almost fell victim and actually wired funds to bluefakes. Luckily I have very powerful friends in the banking industry. With thorough investigation and persistance, I tracked to where the funds ended up. I not only got my money back, but ended up freezing several of their accounts and money returned back to other victims. Here is the list of the companies: GLOBAL REPLICA Additional Business Names: A Fine Luxury Time AFineLuxuryTime.com Allfakes Betterswiss BlueFakes Fullswiss Go Replicas Italian Fakes Jewelers Laststopwatch Limited Watch My Swiss Replica MySwissReplica.com New Replica Newwatch4u Nextswiss Nyswiss OnTimeFakes Precise Knock Offs Ravereplicas Redhotwatch Replicaceo Reproduccion Global Showtimereplicawatches Sizzlefakes SwissFreeze Zenithmotor I am really sorry that it took so long to compile this. I read about a victim on repgeek and got really angry. I really wanted to put the past behind me but something has to be done. I hope I am not too late to try and help others. These are only the companies that I know of under the same group. There potentially can be more. I have put together this information in hope that other people do not fall victim to these petty thugs. Jawo
  6. 11 likes
    First of all, thank you for tolerating the numerous posts regarding this build. The whole build process is detailed here http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/176345-6538-build-progress-movement-discussion/ When I joined the forum, I always thought certain vintage Rolex models were out of my price range. I have been wearing a Rolex since 1987, but just bought a new one every few years and traded in the old one. I found this place doing research for a new Rolex; this was near the end of 2013. So initially I was just looking for information about the new models and stumbled on this forum and figured I could try out some rep models for minimal cost and figure out which gen I would buy. So over a few months I tried about every modern Rolex I liked the looks of—found out I really do not care much for modern Rolex’s. One thing happened that I did not expect, I became part of the community and started participating in discussions and became friends with some of the members here. I really had no idea that I was diving into a new “full time” hobby. As time went on I became more fascinated with the vintage models that members were building and displaying. This led to a few of my own vintage builds. Made some mistakes and had many learning experiences but have been mostly happy with the results. My wife notices how much peace and joy I get from being part of this community and the hobby and actually encourages the “watch thing” as long as I do not go into details about builds as that puts her to sleep. She thinks it is funny that I am a WIS… No one ever really notices my watches. About once of year I run into another WIS and talk watches but really as most of you know this hobby is for yourself and these communities. One of the models that really grabbed my attention was the 6538 Big Crown Submariner, always thought to be too expensive for me to ever afford. Mainly I am talking about Nanuq’s, CC’s and more recently Dbane’s builds. My first real reading as a kid was Ian Fleming’s Bond series and 007 and his 6538 have been favorites of mine for a very long time. I tend to like watches that are simple with no dates and minimal text/distractions. So I did some research and figured out to do one right it would take some knowledge, a lot of help, and it could easily exceed the cost of a nice gen Rolex. Being that I had never worn one, I decided to start with a more conservative approach and bought a nice modified HR 6538 to see how she felt and looked on the wrist. I was pretty much hooked from there. Right away I started doing more research and developed some connections with some of the great members here who had completed these builds. Developed a build plan and a spread sheet to track costs, and then started sourcing parts. Dbane helped throughout this process as for the most part I still an unsure at times of the authenticity of parts and what part is correct for what model. I am learning but always good to have another opinion. It took a while to source all the parts… Dbane is really responsible for putting this together. He has helped me throughout this project. He did the case shaping, the beautiful bevels, lumed the hands, had the movement serviced and did the complete assembly. He is an amazingly skilled and intelligent person who seems to take great pride in whatever he does whether it is building watches or handmade speakers. I have nicknamed him the “case whisperer”. Thank you my friend! Thanks to CC33 and Nanuq who shared their knowledge and experience freely and whose builds were initially responsible for the inspiration. This project was only possible because this forum exists. Specs: Minh Quy case set (mid case, bezel, case back) shaped by dbane and custom engraved by NeckyZips—serial number is period correct but has significant value to me. Genuine spec real gilt dial—hand produced by the nameless one Classic Watch Parts hands lumed by dbane Genuine cal 1030 movement fully serviced Genuine NOS 8mm crown, tube and stem Genuine T-17 dome plexi Genuine MKII long 5 insert. Genuine 7206 bracelet restored by Classic Watch Parts . Thank you so much for being here and for all the help on this project. I really find much enjoyment spending time and sharing with you. This is really the culmination of all the years of collecting watches and my time here so far. Needless to say, I am very happy with the way she turned out. The dial and hands reflect light like no watch I have had. Truly a work of art. I think Mr. Bond would approve. Pics coming from my phone:
  7. 11 likes
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  9. 11 likes
    I'm locking this topic and I edited out the URL from the original post. If someone is truly a bad workman their errors won't remain hidden. He wouldn't be able to hide here or elsewhere. So it is unnecessary to post a witch hunt here from another site. People here would already know about it and word of mouth would expose the guy. Leave the witch hunts to the kiddie fora and we'll continue to act like gentlemen and grownups here.
  10. 10 likes
    Gilt Sub Hands... Most people put effort into their case, then the dial, the movement and the hands become an after thought. I have always thought that the dial and Mercedes hands are KEY elements and key "tells" on any vintage build budget or high end. There are so many myths surrounding what is correct, good, accepted in this world and I find learning this stuff as frustrating as everyone else, I have had to learn this stuff through trial and error (and error, and error). I get asked the question all the time when I post builds about what hands were used and read all the time "what hands are best" etc. etc. and finding a definitive answer is near on impossible because everyone says something different. I thought it was time to dispel some myths and help a whole mass of people out by showing these hands side by side. So here we go... Every hand set that I have, laid out next to each other, and all photographed to the same scale, next to a gen reference set (not my photo)... It should be noted that some of these have been aged and/or damaged, some are as delivered. Gen Hands I tried to make some general points about the gen hands, some rules that we want to get close to Points *1 - The second hand should have a tapered end The lollipop should have the same size of the base of the hour hand and be roughly twice the width of the minute hand *2 The walls of the hour hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot The height of the shaft should be slightly SHORTER than the diameter of the Mercedes sign *3 - The diam of the Mercedes sign should be roughly a third bigger than the base *4 - The size of the Mercedes lume plot should be as big as the diameter of the hole (however the hole sizes differ, gen is 0.8 and ETA is 0.95mm) *5 - The length of the "point" should be more than half the diameter of the Mercedes sign and a third of the width at the base *6 - The distance from the hole to the start of the lume plot on the minute hand should be short *7 - As with the hour hand the walls of the minute hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot *8 - The distance from the end of the lume plot to the start of the point should be small, approx 2x the width of the side wall There are more observations that can be made but these are the main ones. All Together The comparison candidates - Left to Right 1. Gen reference. It is important to say that this is a reference image and is not my photo. I have scaled this to an approximate same size as the other based on knowing the size of the hour hand hole (. compared to the other ETA (.95) 2. HR New - 2015 these are the replacement hands that HR currently have, the minute hand is not long for their oversized dial. However the hour hand is better than the older ones. 3. HR OLD - circa 2014. The minute hand is long for the HR oversized dial and the dimensions to a gen minute hand are almost perfect. A MUST for an oversized dial. (HR is apparently getting these back in stock but this is unconfirmed at time of writing) 3. Clarks Tudor Sub hands for ETA 2015 - These new hands are excellent and in fact probably the best of all for a very reasonable price $20 USD inc shipping 4. Tiger Concept (OnlineStoreHK). These are the clear looser, terrible in fact. Only buy these for the lollipop second hand if MY is out of stock. 5. Michael Young (Classic Watch Repair CWR) - An excellent set of hands that comes with 2 lollipop second hands, a gilt one and a white one. These hands have an excellent finish but the edges are not sharp and the lume job is terrible and hanging over the edge of the hands. At $65 + $28 Shipping these are the most expensive hands here and I would say, from a shape perspective, only slightly better than the $20 Clarks hands. It should also be noted that the hands shown are for a gen movement, not ETA. But MY used to stock these for ETA but he was out of stock when I asked. 6. Clarks Vintage Sub hands for 157x - I am including these because i have them, I struggled to broach these and ended up bending them. A good shape but now superseded by his Tudor Sub hands for ETA builds. Hour Hands Minute Hands Conclusion I hope it is clear to see that many of these hands are "wrong" not close to vintage sub hands AT ALL. The Tiger concept hands are in last place, however, these come with a lollipop second hand. The winners are Clarks and Michael Young if you don't want a lillipop second hand Clarks is the hands down winner. But it must be noted that by the time you buy a set of Clarks Tudor Sub hands and a set of Tiger's to get a lollipop second hand, you are basically at the same price as the MY hands (if he has them in ETA) An additional note must be made for HR "oversized" dials, for this dial there really is only 1 minute hand, the old HR hand as it will correctly reach the chapter ring on the dial as it should. PLEASE NOTE, I am talking solely about vintage early sub GILT hands here. By the time we get into 5513s particularly the silver hands and most definitely the later ones, the design of the hands has changed very slightly. Many of the gilt hands from the 5512 and early 5513 appear to be the same as the "6538" or "50-60s" era hands I am comparing, maybe these were old stock at the time?. But as the years move forward it is easy to see changes in particular the side walls of the hands get thicker, so if you are doing those builds this reference will not hold up. I hope this helps and means you don't have to buy all of the damned hands that I have bought Kime
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    First of all a big thanks to Toro Bravo for a lightning fast delivery and smooth transaction. You can't go wrong with him and he is definitely on his way to being one of the best dealers throughout the boards. So here it is guys. My review and opinion on the new p3000 clone. I will not go into the watch itself because member Ale has done some very extensive research and has aded all the info to his 'panerai bible' so look it up. I will start with a short 'management summary' before I continue to the pictures. This movement is not based on an existing movement. It has 2 barrels and the movement design mimics the genuine p3000 design. It is however completely different. Genuine parts are absolutely not interchangeable. I have never taken apart a genuine p3000 so I can only go by internet pictures. If I would have to set my money on a manufacturer of the p3000 clone it would be the factory that produces the IWC Jones movement. In terms of finishing and design I get the same vibe. Besides both barrels the movement was oiled properly and clean. Parts were finished well according to rep standards. Some plating issues here and there and discolouration of metal. But when dealing with Chinese movements this is normal and it does not affect long term reliability. The p3000 clone was easy to take apart and is absolutely serviceable. Getting it back together is a different story. The gear train is extremely wobbly and the gear train plate very difficult to assemble. You need a special tweezer in order to reach all the gears and align them properly with the jewels. It was perhaps the hardest bridge I have ever had to install. Especially because spare parts are non existent. So if you break one little pivot say bye bye to the movement. Also because most jewel holes lay very deep it is almost impossible to see what you are doing when oiling them. Even with a 10x loupe you are almost working in the dark... But when finished this movement runs like a champ and I see no reason why it would be any less reliable than an 6497. I think this p3000 clone is on par. I can not yet comment of the power reserve as I immediately torn the movement apart to review but I suspect it will reach those 72h without a problem. The details: When I first saw the p3000 when it came out a couple of weeks ago I was very excited. The p9000 clones could not get my motor started as they did not clone any of it's functions. Only the aesthetics was looked after with some decorative plates. A pig in a dress or whatever you want to call it. But this new p3000 clone however was a whole different story. I could clearly see this was not based an existing movement (e.g. 7750/ 6497/2824 etc). So I did not hesitate and ordered one right away to review... Upon arrival I could not take my eyes from the back. The movement just looks gorgeous. Nice detail inside case back They even hid the ugly movement tabs underneath the pretty ones lol. Before taking the movement apart I put it on the timegrapher. It runs at 21.600 bph and the amplitude was ok but rate and beat were off. As this new movement has a free sprung balance (so I thought) I was a bit terrified as regulating it can be a b!tch. However upon closer inspection I noticed the rate stud hidden order the bridge. Thank god! That means the stellar screws on the balance are for show and this movement can be regulated like any other. Here you can see it more clearly with the decorative plate removed. An incabloc shock absorber which is also very reliable. Solid bridge and underside balance view. Clean "POL" engraving underneath the balance. No clue what it stands for. The oiled barrel jewels Look at the 3 layered dial!!!!!.... That will need a special canon pinion right? Huh?.. That is a deep hole. No special canon pinion but special hands. So forget replacing them.. Here you can see the base plate with the dial removed. Nicely finished and clean. No date option and a normal keyless which has some grease... Some part close ups.. Here is the barrel bridge removed. Nice and solid. The 2 barrels exposed The underside of the barrel bridge (I used foil with this movement as the brushed plates are prone to scratches) Barrel 1 (clean but not oiled) Barrel 2 (clean but not oiled) Here you can see both main springs. The barrel 2 mainspring is longer. Here is the gear train. Completely different than the gen p3000 with a aded pinion to transfer the power to the top of the movement: the canon pinion (= minute wheel) The pinion I'm talking about Other parts are also well finished Final shot on the timegrapher taken a hour ago after full service and regulation. Performing like a gen ... Here is a genuine p3000 (pictures from Google search) and you can see the similarities and differences in bridges and gears. Well that was all folks. Hope you liked the review. Based on my findings I would say the watch is definitely worth the extra $100. Although not a 100% the same in appearance and function as the p3000 it comes very close. Maybe the closest we will ever see? It is a reliable movement and it will give you that extra dimension of a genuine feeling. I'm still testing it so unfortunately I can not yet comment on the power reserve whether it actually is 72h. But I think it will come close. Tanks for reading Mark
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    i assure you i am workign to bring this to you guys asap. there always seems to be a hurdle to cross, one after the other. i have a 5514 prototype 2.0 on route. the first one was almost perfect, but then we spent some time trying to resolve the bezel ring inner diamater being to small by literally 1/10th of a mm, a gen insert was having trouble fitting with out sanding the outter diameter, or it would fit but too tight. i still have no idea how well its been resolved until i receive the lastest prototype next week. i just want this thing to be as spectacular as everyone hopes it is, and as much as everyone deserves. the next hurdle im trying to resolve now is a wire tansfer issue. my bank and government get real nosey around who gets money transferred to them by wire especialy when it leaves this country. their fears are with money laundering and funding terrorism. my manufacturer likes their anonymity, understandably so, so it is proving hard to get certain information required to pay them properly and satisfy the fact checking government. i have no problem telling them i am buying non OEM watch parts for resale, but my manufacturer is less than forthcoming with their information i suspect they do not want to be on their corrupt governments radar for any reason. so beyond those issues i can confirm this project is very much alive along with future models im working on in the interim. thank you to all for still believing, and heres to getting some good after market cases and parts asap.
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    Messing with the Big Gonzo while the rest of the plane slept.
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    Got mine at last today. Will be taking this puppy apart this week. Stay tuned Mark -------- Ok guys, I made this promise in the most terrible time. Next week I'm away on business all week. The week after is my holiday vacation so I have some more time on my hands to continue. In the mean time I won't leave you hanging. After all the kind words I already started the tear down but did nog completely strip it down yet. But I will post some pics and share some thoughts. Will continue next week and give some more information. First off. The movement not only looks great. It performed superb on arrival. The readings do not suggest it would need service. But than again... Readings don't always speak the truth. In this case they do. At least so far.... A very very clean and we'll oiled movement. Nothing like I have ever seen. All jewels are nicely oiled and the hair spring coils are perfectly spaced. Rotor attachment Most parts of the auto-winder are the same as the 2824. (2824 parts on the left) Lost the pic of the reversing wheels but they are also the same. Same accounts to the pallet fork. o-ring in crown Some say the dial side looks like the a7750. That only accounts to the keyless works. I would imagine that is interchangeable also. The rest seems newly designed. End of part one. So what do I think so far? I like it. Well designed, clean, oiled and build to last. Due to the fact some parts are A2824 and some parts are A7750 it even doesn't scare me that much (like the aP3000) when it comes to parts. My guess is this movement is designed and made by Seagull. It has all the characteristics. Stay tuned for part 2 PART 2 Thanks the reminder GentLe. I forgot about this thread due to the holidays (shame on me) So you might have guessed it, I completely pulled apart the rest of the movement. You will see some additional pictures below with a short description and at the end my final thought about this movement. Random picture Base movement and gear train. Basic, clean, well finished. I would say bullet proof! Gear train jewels also properly lubed Naked and pretty! Clean but dry main spring + barrel Keyless (7750 parts below. They are an exact match) The long main spring generating exactly 75 hours power reserve. Final thoughtSo what do I think about this movement? I love it. It is really well finished. The way the plates are machined and plated and also the way the decoration is done, all very good. The movement was perfectly clean and well oiled overall. It is designed and manufactured from the ground up and my guess is that a big movement factory like Seagull or Huangzou is behind it. So how does it perform? Well as mentioned earlier the auto wind module is designed like the ETA28xx series. Which has proven itself over the years. So no worries in that department. The keyless design is from the ETA 77xx series. Also no complaints there. The rest of the movement is pretty basic like a hand wind UNITAS 64xx series. It's also as big as one. The only part I was curious about was the PR design. But they designed it flawlessly. Now that I write this I can truly say that they have combined the best of 3 worlds (movements) and put a cherry on top! I don't think we will see a lot of these movements breaking down in the near future. After service it is now running and performing exactly the same as before the tear-down: perfectly If I had to to be finicky I could mention 2 attention points of this movement. - The barrel walls were dry: in order to provide the proper slippage to the bridle and diminish wear greasing of the barrel wall is in order. - The tiny washer underneath the PR-indicator wheel was causing problems and needed to be corrected. Due to an improper bend the PR-hand pinion was tilting making the hand unparalleled to the dial. Of course the state of these rep movements can vary. This one can be clean and perfectly oiled (besides the barrel) whereas others can suffer from all sorts of problems. I have seen that many times before. The inconsistency with rep movements is very high unfortunately. You simply don't know until you take it apart. I know the V2 is out with the movement decoration plate but I prefer the movement without it. All those fake gears, levers and plates can be spot easily by anybody that knows even the tiniest bit about movements. Stuff just looks off. The V1 may not carry all the correct markings but it shows a real and beautiful decorated movement with real jewels, gears etc. The V1 is a nice C-cup whereas the V2 is a fake D-cup.... That's all folks Mark
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    I'm just going to give a 'small' review of the 42mm and 45mm Ceramic Planet Ocean reps. There is a lot to cover with these and I'm sure there will be comparisons next to the gen in the coming weeks. I'll let those who have lived with the gen for a while give a more thorough comparison and correct any errors here. Mainly I'll just give a rundown of the rep quality with some comparisons to gen, and also how is fits in with the current quality of reps and the old PO reps. The Gens 45mm and 42mm. These don't need much of an introduction, anybody who has any interest in Planet Oceans will have heard all about them by now. 42mm Gen 45mm Gen The Reps 45mm and 42mm Reps 45mm 42mm 42mm (next 6) Down to the Details: The Bezels: The bezels themselves are pretty solid with good feedback on each click. The teeth are pretty accurate to gen. The gen finishing is probably a little more refined on the coin edge but these are pretty well replicated. The bezel inserts seem pretty good in colour and texture. Correct colour as gen. It's difficult to see in photos but the 45mm bezel seems to have a little more attention to detail in the numbers, with them being closer together and more compact as gen. The 42mm seems a little more spread out (bigger gap between the 4 and 0 for instance) and the 5 in 50 just seems a little too big for the 0. It is minimal but it is there. It could be a little neater on the 42mm. We'll get onto the pearl later 42mm 45mm The Dials: Both dials are very nice, the 45mm has a little bit more attention to detail again in the logos and markers than the 42mm. There isn't much in the difference, but the 45mm has slightly cleaner and crisper cut to the hour markers. The hour markers on the gen have a slightly bevelled edging with the 45mm having a slightly steeper bevelling than the 42mm. This is replicated pretty well on the reps, the 45mm has the edge in the slightly sharper cut markers and lume infill than the 42mm. The dial itself on the gen is almost black grainy matte finish. The reps are matte black/charcoal, a little bit more drab than the gen, they lack that very slight pop that the heavier matte grain gives on the gen but again it's close. Omega lettering is simply better on the 45mm rep, it has a much more accurate to gen shape and size, the 42mm seems to be a bit blocky/bulky with the bulkier O being the main standout. It's thicker than the gen or the 45mm rep. Why this is I do not know, since the gen 45mm and 42mm share the same logo/lettering size. They could've just used the logo from the 45mm rep!.... but again these are very small parts, nobody is going to really notice unless examining closely. No happy feet this time on either, except for the odd one that escaped into the wild during QC. The hands seem accurate, it had been mentioned at one stage that the 42mm had a slightly too long hour hand. I'm not so sure, I've examined gen pics again and it is minimal if it is, certainly less than a mm. It isn't noticeable at all. The dial print quality is pretty good, with the 'Seamaster' lettering in red and the print of the other lettering being crisp and clear. The Datewheel. The windows are accurate, with the 42mm having no chamfer and closer to the 3 marker, the 45mm has the correct chamfered edging and is spaced correctly. The date wheel itself is slightly off the gen. Font is correct, it is a touch too weak though and is white on black, the gen being a raised glossy silver on black. Not a massive difference but still could be better. Gen dials: Gen 45mm Gen 42mm Rep dials: 42mm Rep 45 mm Rep 45mm 42mm 42mm 45mm 42mm The Case and Caseback: The case on both 45mm and 42mm is pretty accurate, the brushing lines and polishing lines on the case are probably not as crisp cut as gen but not too much of a difference. The case sizes are pretty close to gen in height. I don’t have a calliper close by to measure but doing it the crude way the 42mm rep is about 16mm in height and the 45mm is 17mm in height. The gens are 15.7mm and 16.5mm respectively. Just to note the 42mm wears fairly tall, this is a similar case to the gen which when comparing to the old PO is almost top heavy. Gen Case and LHS Rep Case and LHS Gen Case and RHS Rep Case and RHS The crown/He are fairly accurately sized and finished this time. The 45mm crown being wider but less tall than the 42mm, as is the case on the gen. Also the markings on the He and crown are fairly accurate. What is more concerning is while the 45mm crown screwdown felt really solid with about 8-10 half turns, both 42mm didn't, with about 2 half turns on the silver 42mm and 3 half turns on the red 42mm. Why is this something that could possibly be a concern later?? Well anyone who is familiar with the older PO's, specifically the 42mm V5 will be aware that the tubes were really prone to stripping. I certainly hope this isn't the case here, but these 42mm screwdowns have a striking resemblance in feel to the old version. Not the best, considering most reps I've tried recently were substantially better in this regard. The caseback is a strange one, I'm very happy with the rotor, I'm not too fussed about the eta 2836 masquerading as an 8500. The 8500 is obviously a masterpiece of design and finishing. We have nothing in the rep world that can compete with it on any level. The rep looks pretty good when viewing it through the display window, it's never going to pass for gen, but the rotor Geneve waves and engraving look pretty cool. The liquid metal on the 45mm caseback was a mistake, and adjuste dto fiye' on the movement holder was interesting, but again this is something which can barely be seen with the caseback on, and then only if you are really looking for it. In truth, these are minor issues, the front of the watch is much more important. Gen Caseback Rep The Bracelet and clasp: The bracelet has some very good and very bad aspects. Good are the endlinks which are very nicely cut and fit snugly to the case. The screwed links are are great and feel pretty good quality surprisingly. I was sure I'd strip one or two during resizing but they actually screwed in pretty well and felt pretty close to those on my gen AT. Time will tell if the threads hold out and it might also be a good idea to use some threadlocker if using the bracelet long term. The clasp doesn't jump out at me as being great quality, it's rather crudly cut and in some way almost feels cheaper than the rest of the bracelet. One of the 42mm clasps will not stay closed, the other 42mm is more solid and works fine. The 45mm clasp seems a little more solidly built. Gen Bracelet: Rep Bracelet: The clasp: The clasp engravings aren’t the best. On the gen the 42mm is obviously a little thinner than on the 45mm. On the reps the engravings are a little shoddy, with the 45mm being engraved too deep, but still looks good. The 42mm is too shallow and not bold enough. Gen 42mm Clasp: Gen 45mm Clasp: Rep clasps: The AR, Pearl and Lume: The AR on the 42mm is unusually good for a rep, it’s actually pretty close to my old gen 2500 caliber PO. Maybe just a slight bit less transparent, but it is very low on reflections and it looks to be some of the best AR I’ve seen on a rep. The gen has a slightly more bluish tint but it is close. I’m not sure how durable the 42mm AR will be long term but it certainly looks the part. This above makes it all the more perplexing as to why the 45mm then has no AR at all or very very minimal inner AR. I’m still trying to make out what it is! On some views it looks to have a very slight bluish tint on the inner part of the crystal. That could be just reflections from the gasket though. Either way, the 45mm AR is non existant. It is neither close to gen or even the 42mm rep. I’m not even going to speculate as to what happened in this case. I’m sure the details will come out in time but it is something that needs to be corrected. Rep 42mm Rep 45mm Comparing AR The pearl: The pearl is better centred than it used to be, at least on the 45mm it is. On the 42mm it still has a tendency to be a little lowish in the triangle but they are both a huge improvement over old PO’s. It’s still a little too big in diameter vs gen and is more flush to bezel in some cases than others. The better placement itself just improves the look immensely. The Lume: The lume is pretty good actually, I’m sure the strenght on full charge is not as intense as the gen but they’ve done a pretty good job, with the correct lume colours in the right places. The addition of the good AR and superlume helps make the dial pop much better than the previous PO. Gen Lume: Rep Lume vs Old gen PO Some thoughts and conclusions: Overall this is a nice rep with some great features such as screwed links and good endlinks, AR and superlume, but it is let down by just a lack of attention to detail that could have made it a fantastic Omega rep. The missing AR on the 45mm and the clasps, and some dial/bezel details on the 42mm could have been improved prior to release. It’s still a great purchase and no doubt many will be very happy with it. For the price it has a great deal of features that you’ll be hard pushed to find outside of the rep world. I guess the newer reps on release in the past year with finer attention to detail and better finishing have raised the bar significantly. This doesn’t quite reach those heights but is still good value for money and looks a quality piece on the wrist.
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    Phew...it took a lot longer than I had thought, but we are finally online again As you can see, there are some rather big changes and to be honest, I'm not even sure where to begin to tell you about what is new here Well, I can start with one essential thing. We are back to our old forum URL: http://www.rwg.cc, so feel free to update your bookmarks. But don't worry. You will still get here if you enter www.rwgforum.com, but if you have any direct links to posts, you might have some trouble. First of all, the forum software has been updated to the latest and greatest version. But that's just the start. Let me right away introduce the change I am most exited about; Classifieds As of today, the old "sales" forums are closed for new posts and we will actively start using the classifieds section. Old ads are still there and people can reply to these, but nobody will be able to make new posts in these areas. From now on we will have a dedicated area where you can post your items for sale and I will need your help to develop and customize this section further than what I have already done (I am refering to the "Options", "Shipping options". etc. What should we add here? Anyway, the best way is to test this out for yourselves. Head on over to the Test sales-section and try posting a new ad: http://www.rwg.cc/cl...ort_order__desc Oh, and all members will be able to post ads for free the first month. Just use coupon code "adfree" Feedback The feedback system has been updated and should now work flawlessly. This will be integrated into the classifieds section. Like I am sure many of you are on Facebook and have "liked" many posts made by your friends there. Well, now you can like posts here on RWG also and you can start by liking this one by clicking the little button down in the right corner Forum Ca$h A little something we've had before, but I will have to get back to you with an update when this is ready for use, as I haven't been able to fully configure it yet, but basically it is something that will give our members points (forum cash) for their activity here and these points (forum cash) can at a later stage be invested, donated, you can purchase something for it, etc. More info will be posted later. Review section More info will be posted at a later stage, when this areas is ready. Not sure yet, but I think we will use it both to post dealer reviews and watch reviews. Donations The donations module has been upgraded and polished. Feel free to try it. You should see it in the sidebar or you can go here: http://www.rwg.cc/donate RWG on your mobile You can already use TapaTalk to access RWG on your mobile (iPhone, Android, Blackberry) and you can download the app here: http://www.tapatalk.com/mobile.php We have now also added support for Forumrunner, which is another great app to access forums on the go. Forumrunner features free push-messages to both iPhone and Android and this is not a feature Tapatalk has yet. Search for Forumrunner either in the App Store or Android Market. Last, but not least, let us not forget the great mobile skin we have. Just use the browser on your mobile and go to http://m.rwg.cc X World Not going to spend to much time on this. Let's just say that it's a place for the boys to hang out and enjoy the scenery Up to you if you just want to watch or if you also want to contribute. Take advantage of a 1 month free-pass to this section. Go to the RWG Store and add some X to your profile: http://www.rwg.cc/st...t/20-x-member/. Use coupon code "x-off" Remember to hit "I have a coupon to use" and enter your coupon before you check out Oh, by the way; we need a moderator for this area, so if you feel that you can contribute in this area and can moderate members contributions, send me a PM with a short description of you, your forum experience and why you should be the moderator. Let me just end this by asking you guys to do the following; 1. Check that your avatar/photo is correct. If not, upload a new one 2. Check that your signature is correct and edit, as necessary. Also, if you have not done this, this might be a good time to update your profile with your age, location, local time (The local time will show in your posts, so that people know if you are about to go to bed or just got up ) etc. Always good to get to know you a little bit better. Finally, let me just say that this has been a massive upgrade and I have added tons of new buttons for our crew members to pus also. As usual, there will be people who doesn't like what they see and how things work, but after having done this for some time, i also know that usually everybody gets used to the new features, new design, etc. and end up liking it. So please don't start right away with the complaints. Give it a couple of weeks and get back to me then There are bound to be things that doesn't work so please PM me or shoot me an e-mail (admin@rwg.cc) if you find stuff that doesn't work. I can right now say that the advanced uploader is not working very well for me in the version I am running of Firefox, but it is wokring without a hitch in IE 9 (Havn't tried it on Chrome, so feel free to let me know if it works or not). So if you are having a hard time uploading attachments, try another browser or use the basic uploader. This also goes if you discover something else that doesn't work. First, try deleting all your temporary internet files and cookies and then try again. If it still doesn't work, try another browser and if it still doesn't work, let me know. Well, I think that's about it for now. Have a look around, play with the new buttons and switches and feel free to share your initial thougths. Oh, and if you want to grab a free VIP membership, you can do that also. Yep, I'm feeling mighty generous tonight, so I am giving away free VIP memberships. Just go to the store, add a 1 month VIP membership to your cart and when you go to check out, use coupon code "freevip" Lot more fun to surf the forum without the ads And if you still want to contribute, feel free to add your donation in the toolbare to the right or go to http://www.rwg.cc/donate.
  17. 8 likes
    I've reworked that pretty lady. The pushers are better now, I installed a gen top hat T21 and fine tuned the movement for the pushers to operate better... Now I think I can't do much more on this one....
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    Daytona - A legend reborn Rolex Submariner Story
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    This article was written in 2008 & websites often vanish or move, so YOU may need to research some of the links --freddy333 So you're a Noob. Welcome aboard. You've just found yourself the coolest and most knowledgeable WATCH forum around. The members on this board are some of the saaviest watch afficianodos anywhere and are well versed in replica, gen, vintage and homage pieces, as well as gen and rep movements. There are oustanding writers, photographers, watchmakers and modders as well as up and coming members who have spent hours and days contributing oustanding pieces of information in the form of topic posts, reviews, galleries, tutorials and you name whatever other kind of information you would want. The questions you have as a Noob have probably been asked before...many times before...so many times that the asking of the question AGAIN annoys many of the more senior members so much that the only response you'll get to your query is: USE THE SEARCH FEATURE, NOOB! Many members on this board have helped me so much in the early stages of my rep journey asking for no more payment than to be a positive member of this board, that I felt I should put some effort into putting together a guide to help you enjoy and appreciate the rep world. I'll tell you now...you should use the Search feature located at the top right of the forum screen. You may not IMMEDIATELY find exactly what you want, but the odds are what you want is buried in the various topics that get returned. Do yourself a favour and read seemingly loosely related posts, because you will find nuggets of information that you will find useful, that you probably never thought of asking. Start by being general with your search (e.g. A7750) and then narrowing things down when you learn enough about the topic and need something very specific (e.g. 0.17mm hands a7750). Here's a step by step guide developed using the Search feature, and comprised of posts I have referred many Noobs to in answering their common questions: STEP 1 - Learn the Talk Don't know what we're talking about in the posts? Look here for definitions: Abbreviation wiki The Zigmeister's Glossary If you want your questions answered without getting flamed, learn Forum Etiquette first: Edge's Guide to Rep Forums Pt I Then, learn the basics about reps: Legality of Owning Replicas Best Sub Phoband's intro to collecting If you've got time... Awesome collection of watch info STEP 2 - Start to Crawl Which watch to buy?? Many people will tell you to pick the watch first...then the collector as some collectors can get things that others can't, although most can get the same merchandise as they all deal with the same factories. Read the brand forums...read the reviews and buying guides. By-Tor, Pugwash, Seadweller, Andreww, Chrgod, myself and a bunch of others have written lots of reviews of various pieces to help you find the best of the best. Selecting a collector to buy from is a tricky choice. There is no "best" collector as it depends on many factors: Where you are from - European buyers often pick European based collectors to avoid semi-frequent customs seizures Price - price variances between collectors after incorporating shipping can vary ~$0 - $120 (more for the big ticket items) Availability of a specific piece (some collectors have access to things others do not) How much you value instant communication (within hours vs. within days) Availability of certain modding being done out of the box Your level of patience in dealing with the inevitable quality control (QC) issues that will arise Where should you buy from?? Check the list below. RWG Member Trade Section RWG Recommended Collectors NOTE: Dealer links can be found in the subsections in the Collectors area or HERE RWG Want to Buy (WTB) Section Which dealer or member is the best?? Trade Reviews (Including Reviews of Collectors) If you need to ship to the EU...read this: Problems Shipping Reps From China into the EU If the collector/site you're interested is not listed below, use the Search feature to see if others have asked about the site already. Finding existing answers about a site/collector in question will yield you more info than asking a question that's been asked many times before. Try various spellings of a site (e.g. watcheden, watcheden.com, www.watcheden.com) to make sure it hasn't been asked already. If you can't find info about the site/collector you are interested in, check below: Ripoff List If you still haven't found info on the site/collector you are interested...use common sense. Buy from them if you want, but don't cry to us if you lose your money and don't get a watch, or get a watch that's a piece of crap that you feel you paid too much for. We have recommended collectors listed above for a reason. They may be more expensive than what you can find out there...but these collectors have been around for awhile, members here have had positive experiences from these ones, they supply decent product, and they will not rip you off. Don't forget to Search. Which watch??? That's a matter of personal preference...but you could search for reviews...or go here: Onzenuub's Rep Review Database You might want to read reviews of the movements before picking which rep to buy...some movements make great looking watches but reps with ticking-time-bomb lifespan: The Zigmeister's Movement Reviews Francisco's New and Improved Seconds at 6 Review Francisco's Seconds at 12 Review STEP 3 - You've pulled the trigger...you're waiting to walk You've made your first order...you're now sweating about if it will arrive...and EMS tracking...the wait...the drama...the horror...ooooh...the suspense. Yeah yeah yeah...we've all been there...so has everyone else: Lanikai's Excellent Post on Tracking Your Baby (applies mostly to CONUS...Canada is never an issue...other countries?? Use search.) A not so untypical shipping story Great play by play of waiting for a first order to arrive Aaaaah...my watch was Handed Over to Customs Aaaaah...I live in the EU and my watch was Handed Over to Customs...you may be screwed (contact your dealer for details on this scenario BEFORE ordering. I spent $500 USD and all that got shipped to me was a !@#&'ing TOY!! RWG dealer Recommendations suck. STEP 4 - You've got the watch...now what?? Congratulations!! You have yourself an amazing mechanical marvel...unless you bought a soul-less quartz cheapo (just kidding). Watches are delicate instruments and require careful handling and care. How do I get the most out of my new watch? By reading: The Zigmeister's Basics 101 - Getting the Most Out of Your New Watch The Zigmeister's User Guide for the A7750 If you've never had an automatic watch, you're probably wondering why your watch doesn't keep running after 2 days: My watch stops running...now what?? The Zigmeister's Mechanical Movement User Guide The Zigmeister's 's Care and Feeding Of Mechanical Movements Problems Accelerating Wear and Maintenance of A7750s Does my watch suck? It's loud...not like the gen. A7750 Power Reserve and Rotor Spinning Problems Noisy Rotor and Grease/Oil A7750 Spinning Rotor...is it a problem? If my watch sucks, should I get it repaired? Some say yes...some say no. If you got a cheapo $100 watch...likely the movement is a DG2813 that can be replaced for $12-$40 (for a DG4813) + labour at $50 for a movement swap. That's almost the cost of a new one. If you can do it yourself...it's definitely worth swapping. If you have a gen ETA movement...it should be able to be repaired by a rep friendly watchsmith and is worth doing so as the movement is very reliable. If you got a nice spanky A7750, it can be costly to replace the watch and the movement...so repair may be worthwhile...but expensive as these are complex movements that require great skill to repair. The cost of servicing may be close to the cost of a new watch, but a proper servicing will give you years of RELIABLE service. Many people say unserviced, they still get years of life out of their A7750s. The moral of the story for me is, if you want the watch to last for years, get it serviced. If you like the watch a lot...get it serviced. If it's fun but doesn't get a lot of wrist time, you like it, but you don't love it...sell it...and likely skip the servicing. If you will cry because the watch died prematurely...get it serviced. You can try swapping out your movement: Toad's Movement Swapping Guide - Redux or get a Free Watch instead My watch sort of sucks...I need it repaired: Repair is always the problem with reps. Good watchmakers/watchsmiths are hard to find. Finding one that can work on the extremely complex 7750 (gen or rep) movement is even harder. Finding one that can work on an A7750 is the hardest. Why should my new A7750 watch be serviced? It's new right? Sure it is: Why service your A7750?? How should a mechanical watch be serviced? Things to know about rep servicing The Zigmeister's Post on the British Horological Info on How Watches SHOULD be Serviced To find a rep friendly watchsmith or watchmaker try searching RWG. You can start by looking here: Advanced Search and plugging in "watchsmith" or "watchmaker " in a Titles Only search. Use The Zigmeister, where possible but read this post first Who is The Zigmeister and where do I find him? ...or Thomson Highway in Europe ...Francisco seems to do amazing work as seen in Francisco's Forum Subsection ...or Domenico seems to be getting good reviews (though I've never used him) - Domenico ...or the phone book or shopping mall repair folks My watch definitely sucks...I want to return it to China: Play the rep game long enough (or if you're unlucky, even your first rep), and you'll get a dud. Maybe it's a movement, maybe the wrong watch, maybe a crooked crystal, crooked hour marker, etc). If yours is DOA or has some issues: Search RWG to see if they are known issues Search RWG to see what other people have done about the issues If the issue is a warranty thing...contact your collector and seek resolution If no resolution found with the vendor, complain about it hereonly AFTER you have attempted resolution so others can be informed of your experience Ship it back to China for warranty repair/replacement How do I return my watch to China? Returning your watch to China STEP 5 - You're walking now...how do you keep things running? Odds are good if you bought a chrono, it has an A7750 movement: What A7750 do I have or should I buy? There are so many versions... The Zigmeister's User Guide for the7750 Movement Care and Feeding of A7750 Chronos - Setting the Date The Zigmeister's Explanation of why handwinding your A7750 is bad This watch is great. Can I take it swimming? Read here for water resistance testing: Reps and Waterproofness Pugwash's Water Resistance Testing Post Greasing Gaskets and 4' Pressure Testing What is Water Resistance? Water Resistance Testing Home Brew Pressure Tester STEP 6 - Walking to running Ok...you love your watch but want it just that little bit more accurate. What can you do? How To Adjust Timing or Beat Can anyone do mods on my watch? The Zigmeister's Post on Questions to Ask a Modder I want to take it to the next level and put a real Swiss Valjoux 7750 movement in my chrono...just like the gen? Swapping Swiss Rotors with Asian on 7750s Takashi's A7750 to Swiss Tutorial Ajoesmith's A7750 to Swiss Tutorial How do I do STUFF to my watch? Francisco's Amazing Tutorial Section RWG Knowledge Base You want improved AR? Chieftang AR. The King of AR!! You want lume? Do a search on "The Watchmeister" (pass through parameter links don't work anymore) NOTE: The Watchmeister is not a full-time watchsmith so his client list is essentially sort-of closed. What does this mean?? Read: Who is The Watchmeister and where do I find him? Everest Watchworks STEP 7 - Take a rest...you've come far grasshopper...you can now leave the Mountain You're enjoying your watch...now put back into the community that helped you so much. Post some pics...write a review...encourage other Noobs...etc Pugwash's Guide on How to Post Pics ...start working on your own watches RWG Links to Where to Buy Tools RWG Watch Repair and Upgrade Section Practice and memorize everything here: The Zigmeister's Technical Info Subsection The Zigmeister's Watchmaking Resource Centre STEP 8 - Be thankful for this amazing resource The information I've provided above is gold. I know you will find it useful. I've saved you months of time searching...and have helped you get up and running quickly and relatively painlessly. The info presented here is by no means comprehensive as the forum has TONNES more to offer. SEARCH. The info above is worth far more than a stack of watch mags, books, etc...so Upgrade Your Membership and stop being a freeloader. If you're so broke you can't afford the small amount to be a Supporter...maybe you shouldn't be buying watches. If you can't afford to support the forum financially...support it through content, buy raffle tickets, post topics, reviews, news...interesting stuff...and Upgrade your membership and support the forum Don't Forget the Upgrade is a Subscription
  24. 8 likes
    Interesting that this pops up now because I have done some soul searching as to why I buy reps recently. I can see how somebody comes tot he conclusion that fake watches are bought to gain social prestige without being an unconscious bloke. I assume that the majority of reps are bought for exactly that reason. Just look at the fake watch buster posts with kids flashing their canal street reps and brag about the money they allegedly coughed up to buy them. At the same time I have learned that there are other motivations to buy reps, and I have learned that this is true for most of the members of this forum. I definitely do not buy reps to gain social prestige or flash them in public as gens. I also buy a lot of micro brands that would only be recognized by some real watch enthusiasts. Plus I own many gens, not in the 5-10000 USD area but the likes of Anonimo or vintage Omega. The net worth of my watch collection could easily buy me a nice Patek. So if I was out for prestige I would buy a Nautilus and end of story. But what I really enjoy about this hobby is diversity and the process of building a collection. Like to have a watch for every shirt color and every occasion. Having said this there are a lot of smaller and affordable brands out there that are even technically innovative and have better and more reliable movements. I am talking Anonimo, MKII and others. Just yesterday I stumbled over a UK brand that uses Tritium tubes instead of lume. So diversity is no valid reason to buy into reps as well. So why don’t we all buy micro brands or sterile homage watches instead? Obviously the famous watch brands have a lot of appeal. I often read the argument that the genuine brands are overpriced. But the price for something is made by the market and all luxury items are decoupled from the material and manufacturing cost. Why should the brands sell at a price below the market? The brand itself has a value and it was build by real people that earn their living from doing so and pay real taxes. It took decades of work, a lot if ingenuity and billions of dollars to get there. If you feel the brands are overpriced why buy them? It is not like food or medical supplies. Nobody needs a Rolex or a Patek. Another motivator: The hobby takes over and the obsession to correct the small flaws that still distinguish the reps from their gen counterpart. The hobby itself can be very fulfilling. So there are lots of reasons other then being fake or gain social prestige. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that I indulge myself into the thought of owning something I crave for and could not or would not afford otherwise. At the end of the day there IS some hypocrisy involved in this hobby. Face it! Probably not the kind of post guys want to read in a rep forum, but at least my "genuine" thoughts.
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  26. 8 likes
    And so it happens that I was sitting down having coffee two nights back with a local friend and watch enthusiast, and who is also a member on both RWI and RWG. The conversation turned, after some perfunctory and bland comparisons of Rolex vs Panerai, Hublot vs AP, to the atmosphere of RWG. He cast me a snide glance and mentioned that RWG was where forum members go to retire, or after they become banned or ousted from RWI. We are, according to my loquacious pal, "too peaceful", and "too quiet", compared to the relatively rambunctious crowd at RWI, the conflicts between their moderators and wayward members, and the perpetual entertainment found at its brig section, where incarcerated members are bashed to a pulpy mess, revived, and the actions repeated to the amusement of the bystanders.. Ok I digress, but only a little. I told him, in the local lingo, that RWG is the home of extraordinary gentlemen. When I think of outstanding gentlemen that make up the community, stellar ones like @astonjenks, @panerai153, @Nanuq etc come to mind. Of course there are a lot more, but these are the ones I interact frequently with, sometimes over random salmon and moose pictures. The members here exude an unmistakable aura of poise, and many a times, money and watches are exchanged among us privately on the basis of mere unadorned words with not even a picture. And the watches and money invariably both arrive without fail, with unerring reliability. In the volatile world of superficial acquaintances and relationships, I do consider this level of trustworthiness among friends extraordinary, and superlatively valuable. Yes, you do not frequently witness exciting drama here, or the fuss and flurry of our neighbor forum, but here, we watch, listen and learn, more than shoot off our mouths like fireworks on the 4th of July. The quiet word can sometimes achieve more than the shouting and the banging on tables. We do not indulge in much vilification of members, or cast disparaging remarks on others for the slightest infractions, but we allow members to learn, and become contributors to the forums in their own rights. Yes we could be the sedentary river compared with the tumultuous torrents of exchange, and yes, we could be the placid lake with hardly any ripples. But hey, I am certain that RWG is what we like our own homes to be, metaphorically speaking. For those who crave the occasional action, it is always easy to hop out to the disco next door, where I concede to have the more exciting atmosphere. Knowledge, information and friendships are gained and forged in the undercurrents here, in steady and refined manners. We are not a pugnacious bunch, no, not even the outwardly tough but a softie at heart @nikki6 who is in a long term relationship with his infamous AP Marcus. Our strength lies in our dignity, and our ability to interact with one another with class and courtesy. Let us understand and embrace who we are, and the place that we have collectively crafted. I am also heartened to see stellar new members like @tango258 from some obscure, remote Island (which he has given up trying to sell me) join us, and of course, veteran dragons like migrating from next door, like @paristoto and @swdivad. We also have the skillful masters with the magic hands, like @SSTEEL, @misiekped, @Grimlocktime. They don't talk much, but they have saved a multitude of watches from death and breathed life and beautified several more, in their own ways. We have also the legendary collectors like @Daytona1984, @Waiwaiet. They like to let their collection speak for them. The people who matter, they are all here. You just need to know who to approach and what to ask. We are in a way like a uptown mall where the goods available are not openly on display. You just need to know where to look. There is of course the obligatory knitting lounge where pink yarns are handed out for the new guys. So Knitting circle? Yes maybe, but its a tight circle for sure. Home is where you come to have a tequila while looking at the sunset, while nibbling on slices of roast moose. (sorry for the moose reference, some member has been spamming me with moose pictures, alternatively as food and as cuddly animals, its disconcerting). So yes, kick off the shoes, and enjoy the pastures here. Take your time to explore and immerse yourself, and you will find delight and solace in the company of extraordinary gentlemen, and the wells of knowledge here. And welcome home.
  27. 8 likes
    This tutorial explains how to build a frankenjust (i.e, franken Datejust) from scratch, or at least how I did it. The specific model I built is a reference 16014, but I think the concepts apply to other 16000-model types, too. I geared the level of detail in the steps and descriptions below to novice modders, and to those on the fence about trying their hand. As a result, much of the following will be too simplistic for the more experienced. In the interest of getting it right, please correct and add comments where you see fit. I wrote this guide (1) to pass on some of the information I've picked up from research on several watch forums (see these excellent posts by KBH, LHOOQ, and TxRub779), (2) to build up the confidence of beginners, and (3) to increase the number of Datejusts in the world, since they are such beautiful watches. A Datejust is a great choice for a first franken: they are relatively budget-friendly and their assembly process is straightforward. I had a lot of one-on-one help along the way. Thanks especially to KBH, Preacher, and Tomhorn. If anybody has questions about the following, please PM me, and I will try my best to help. Now, let's build this thing! Step I: Source the parts 1. Case a. midcase b. tube c. crown d. case back e. bezel 2. Plexi crystal (ref# 25-135) 3. Gaskets (tube & crown for 6mm, and case back is a ref# 302-86) 4. Dial (for a 16000 case) 5. Movement (ETA 2836-2) a. Stem for movement b. Dial spacer 6. Hands (Clark white Tudor dress for 2836-2) 7. Movement Ring (Raffletime #2) 8. Case clamps for a 2836-2 9. Bracelet/endlinks/lugbars to fit 20mm lugs. 10. Datewheel overlay I found my 16014 midcase/caseback, crown, bezel, and tube for sale on the forums. But, they go up on eBay & VRF all the time. Make sure you read the fine print; sometimes sellers like to split up the cases and piece them out. My steel is all gen, although it might be possible to substitute rep parts in some places (e.g., a 6mm crown). Source your gaskets from a watch parts outlet--I used Esslinger. The 16000 case takes gaskets that fit a 6mm crown/tube, and a 302-86 case back gasket. See here for a good breakdown of which gaskets match various Rolex case backs, based on the case numbers. Ebay & VRF are also good sources for dials, but you have to be patient. I wanted a silver linen dial (which I am told is technically called a silver "florentine") since it seemed an elegant touch for an elegant watch, but only gold ones kept coming up. As I wear a platinum wedding band, I chose to wait. Or pay $350+, which is what some sellers demand. Crystals are also easily found on eBay. The 16014 uses a 25-135 crystal. I used an aftermarket version, from Clark watch parts. You can find movements from many watch parts suppliers. Ofrei is a good one in the US. Cousins in the UK. I chose to use an ETA 2836-2, since I happened to have a spare. Others have built these watches using 2824-2's, which are a slightly different dimension as far as stem height. I can't speak to their suitability, or what mods (if any) you need to make to fit them in a 16000 case. Nothing prevents you from using a clone of these movements, rather than a Swiss version, for budget purposes. Although perhaps less reliable, they work well enough in my limited experience with them. In most cases, the stem is movement-specific. If you buy a movement from Ofrei or Counsins, it will come with a correct stem. But if you transplant a movement from another watch, the trimmed stem length might not match the correct length for your frankenjust. Both the 2824-2 and the 2836-2 have a stem diameter of 0.9mm, which happily fits right into the gen Rolex crown. The movement also decides the hands, since the hand-hole diameter must fit over the movement pinions. Fortunately, 2824's and 2836's share these specs. I bought silver Tudor dress-style hands from Clark, since they are very close to the hands that Rolex used for vintage Datejusts. You can find ETA case clamps from a supply house or on eBay. The movement ring is a Rafflestime #2. It does a good job. But, I've read excellent things about Stilty's rings. Unfortunately, I couldn't get in touch with him or otherwise find one to purchase. I bought a 20mm rep jubilee bracelet set, but you can find gens on eBay or VRF. The right model for my watch is a 62510H with 555-stamped end links. They run a little pricey. You can find lugbars from the usual sources. Most vintage Datejusts used a Rolex 3035 movement. Because the datewheel on an ETA movement turns in the opposite direction to the 3035, you can't just slap the latter's datewheel in there as an overlay. If you're stuck on gens, you can use a 3135 datewheel, since it spins the same way, although you might have to sand down the back for clearance between the movement and the dial. I found that the few overlays I have in my parts drawer didn't fit properly in the 16014: it's window is a little further to the right so that the text looks left justified. I like the look of the vintage overlay (font with open 6's and 9's), and these are hard to find so I decided to try and print my own. It's getting there, but I haven't quite perfected it yet. Step II: Tools you will need (in no particular order) 1. Precision screwdrivers 2. Watch tweezers 3. Plastic tweezers 4. Hand presser 5. Hand removers (I prefer levers) 6. Pin vice 7. End cutter pliers 8. File/sandpaper 9. Caseback opener (I usually use a sticky ball) 10. Movement holder 11. Dial protector or similar 12. Dial dots 13. G-S hypo cement 14. Silicone grease 15. Xacto knife 16. Loupe (I prefer a headset) 17. Bezel press (or a custom tool to do the same) 18. Movement cups (optional) 19. Dust blower (optional) 20. Movement pad (optional) 21. Watch paper (optional) 22. Rodico (optional) 23. Springbar tool (optional) 24. Caseback knife (optional) 25. Finger cots (optional) Much of what you need can be found in the RWG/Watchbitz toolkit. I highly recommend it as an excellent resource of quality tools for any modder. The tools list is pretty self-explanatory. You can substitute in some places, but you will need/want pretty much everything above. The nice part about buying all these tools is that most are one-time expenses. And once you decide to open up a watch case, you won't be able to stop, as I have discovered. Step III: Make the watch Earlier, I claimed that the DJ assembly is straightforward, but I should qualify that. Truthfully, several frustrating little problems will pop up during rep building. But for me it's a rewarding feeling to solve them and admire your new creation--way better than just buying it. Like KBH says, half of the fun is finding a way to assemble things that were never meant to be put together in the first place. And you will know soooo much more about your watch than the average gen owner. Here's how you do it... 1. Remove the Rolex dial feet Dials come with little metal feet. These feet slip into the movement and, along with the handstack, align the dial correctly when it's seated on the movement. For whatever reason, the feet positions are often movement-specific, even for movements with similar diameters. As a result, porting a dial from one movement to another involves snipping and filing down the original dial feet. So, to fit your gen dial onto a 2836-2, you need to remove those pesky 3035 feet. Whenever you handle a dial, but particularly an expensive one, it's a good idea to either wear gloves or synthetic finger cots. I prefer cots since they allow the rest of your hand to breathe (avoid cotton cots when handling movements, since they will leave tiny bits of lint everywhere). While holding the dial securely, take your pliers and gently press them up against the back of the dial around the foot. Grip the foot and cut it off, then do the same to its twin. You will find a little nub remaining in each spot. To prevent it from interfering with the operation of the datewheel, you need to file or sand it off. I just used some fine sandpaper that I picked up at Home Depot. Although I have one, I didn't use my diamond file, as I found it awkward to handle in this application. Be careful to (1) hold the dial firmly enough so it doesn't slip, but gently enough so that you don't bend it and to (2) sand with precision. Take your time. A slip here and you will mar the dial. Now, blow away the tiny metal fragments from the back of the dial You don't want them wandering around inside your watch case. 2. Attach the movement ring and dial spacer to the dial The movement ring is a metal washer that is used to prevent the movement from sloshing around in the case, side-to-side. It surrounds the movement and gives it a snug fit inside the case, so that when you pull out or push in the crown of the finished watch, the movement sits firmly in place beneath the dial. The Rafflestime #2 ring does a pretty decent job ensuring a snug fit. It leaves a bit of space around the movement, but not enough to really notice when everything is put together. Most movement rings rest above the stem; in fact, they leave a little gap for the stem to fit into the movement. So, it's a smart idea (in the absence of dial feet) to just attach the movement ring to the dial itself. If you align the center of the gap to the 3 o'clock marker, it gives you some confidence that the dial is in the right position when you eventually peer down into the overturned case, and go to tighten the case clamps. You can use a little G-S hypo to join the dial and the movement ring, but be frugal. Too much glue will either wick up the side of the dial and perhaps onto its face, or make a big splotchy mess. Another solution is to use a tiny strip of dial dot. Use an Xacto knife to slice away several small bits of the double sided tape and go to work. I found dial dots easier to handle, and they offered a stronger stick. 3. Set and align the date wheel overlay ETA date wheels don't line up with Rolex date windows. You have to place an overlay on the 2836-2's date wheel to get the calendar to show up in the window. And to do it properly is harder than it sounds. At first, I used a date wheel from a donor rep submariner. It's smart to use plastic tweezers in this step, as the overlay is delicate. I often leave my movements on a movement pad (or rest). Before you do this, it's a good idea to remove the rotor to avoid stress on it. A dial spacer sits atop the movement, and forms a seat for the dial so that it clears the date wheel and the overlay. Otherwise, pressure from the dial will--at best--interfere with smooth date change operation. Enough pressure to can even cause something delicate to break. Make sure your dial spacer is thick enough to provide sufficient clearance. The flip side of the clearance problem is that the more space you leave between the dial and the movement, (1) the less space you leave yourself to press the hands down properly and (2) the further down you push the stem slot. Depending on your case (and movement), (2) can be a problem when you finally go to push the crown & stem into the movement. The "fit equation" that must be satisfied is: dial width + dial spacer + stem height = center of tube height from top of the dial ± ε The stem height is the distance from the top of the movement to the center of the stem hole. In the equation above, ε represents the "slop". Things rarely line up bang-on: if you're close, you're probably in business. You just don't want to put so much pressure on the stem that it snaps off in the movement. I had some dial spacer issues at first. This one ended up not working too well, but I found a decent enough version in my parts drawer. Now, attach the spacer to the dial using the same method as you did for the movement ring. That way, when you set the dial down, everything will be in place. And ready for alignment... Ultimately, your overlay alignment can only be as good as your overlay. If the font is off (left justified in my case), then the best you can do it to make everything equally off-center. Knowing that, insert the stem. Gently. You may need to turn it slightly as you do so. As long as your keyless works are in order, and you're using the correct stem, the crown will snap into place. With the dial off, put maybe 10 small dots of G-S hypo cement along the top of the ETA datewheel. G-S has a tendency to string up, so be quick. And don't leave enough so that it seeps down into the movement. Best to practice, first. Set down the dial, and make sure it's lined up with the stem. Fortunately, my linen dial had a convenient market right above the stem hole, making my job a bit easier. To align the wheel, make sure your calendar appears nice and centered in your date window. Do so by lifting the dial and using your plastic tweezers to move things around. Using a magnifier will help. Pull the crown into the quick-set position. Advance the date by 15 or so clicks and look at the date centering. Do your best to line things up. Repeat this process. When things are about equal, advance 7 clicks. Now you're on the other diagonal. Center things up. Advance 15 and do the same. Eventually, you will get things as centered as they can be. Note that things can sometimes look different when the date advances normally, versus the quickset. It's a good idea to check. OK. Now you're getting close. 4. Case the dial & movement With the overlay all set, it's time to pull out the stem. For most watches this isn't the case. You would have to set the hands first, before you case everything. However, the hands and crystal for the 16000 series can easily be set in place after the movement is cased. This is a good thing, since sometimes you need to fudge a little with the hands to make them fit properly under the plexi. I use a movement cup, because it is an easy way to turn the movement over (to press the stem release), without hurting the pinions. With a cup set, you're bound to have one that fits the movement diameter pretty well. Flip the movement onto the cup. Put the crown in the winding position. On a 2836-2, use a min. 1mm screwdriver to depress the stem release button. VERY GENTLY. It won't take too much pressure. At the same time, just slide out the stem. If you press too hard, you can screw up your keyless works. And then you will have to take everything apart to re-set, and go through the entire process of overlay alignment again. Now put the movement pad soft-side down on top of the face-down movement. Flip everything over again and you've got the stemless movement ready to be cased. Carefully, slide the case down over the dial. As you do so, make sure the tube is lined up over the three o'clock marker, and that the rehaut is evenly spaced around the dial. If you're ham-handed, you can scratch the dial. And that would suck. Again, a bigger movement cup forms a really easy rest for the movement/case. Just flip it over. At this point, I like to insert the stem, to make sure everything is lined up right. Just place a finger on top of the movement (being careful to NEVER touch the balance wheel) and slip the stem in. (As long as you adhered to the fit equation, you'll probably be OK.) Putting the stem in this way helps to keep everything (dial and movement) lined up when you screw down the case clamps--especially in situations where you don't have any dial feet. Of course, I didn't think to take pictures showing this little gem... Case clamps keep the movement centered between the dial and the back of the case. They provide pressure, in fact, so that the rotor doesn't scrape against the case back. Use tweezers to transport a clamp over to the movement and line it up. Then, drop in a screw and tighten it just enough so the rotor clears it. Do the same for the other clamp and then tighten everything up. Add the case back here. Well, first place the gasket that you've been soaking all the while in silicone grease . Whenever I screw it down, I like to use my hand at first to turn the case back counter-clockwise against the case threads until I feel/hear a click. Then screw it in, normally, by hand at first. If you encounter no resistance, use your sticky ball or equivalent. This helps you avoid cross-threading (hat-tip, Bonesey). Up to now, you've been using a generic crown and stem, right? Well, take the stem out and use your pin vice to switch crowns. Then, use the pliers and a few stem insertions to get that stem to the right length. It should be long enough so that the winding position is clear of the tube, but short enough so that the crown spring can easily get the crown to the tube for screwing down. Again, I sit the case on a movement cup and test the date wheel form the quick set position, and also by normal time-set advancement. If everything looks good and you don't get any resistance, it's time to move on to the last few steps. 5. Install the hands The 16000 crystal/bezel set affords you the convenience of doing this step after the dial and movement are set in the case. When you've done it a few times, hand setting is no big deal. But you have to tread carefully because it's easy to scratch the dial. So, use a dial protector. My dial has stick markers, which preclude me from using my RWG/Watchbitz-toolkit-sourced-Bergeon. Instead, I "customized" a bit of watch paper to perform the same function. Always use a loupe when installing hands. They are small. Rodico is your friend. Press it down (gently, to avoid bending) onto any hand at the tip. Guide the hand over to the cannon pinion and line up its hole. Then install. Hack the movement. It's not really necessary, but it makes things a little neater since you don't have to worry about the hands moving around while you take your time. For the hour hand, I usually just use a cheap set of plastic tweezers. First, slowly advance the crown in time-set position until the date snaps over. Then press the hour hand home so it points directly at 12. Advance the hand until the next change occurs. If it's off, you can use the plastic tweezers to nudge the side of the hand a bit, to line it up. Keep doing this until you have it straight. You need to use the hand presser when installing the minute and seconds hands. At first, I was really worried about snapping off the seconds pinion when using the pen-type tool, since you are kind of blind once you lower it to make contact with the hand. But if you're gentle, you can actually move the presser slowly around and feel the seconds pinion is inside the hole at the end of the presser. Once you're sure about that, just press down. But not too hard, or you could break a jewel. Make sure to move the hour hand over to point directly at another hour marker before you install the minute hand at 12 (3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock work well). When hour and minute hands are on, use the crown to turn the hands all the way around the dial to make sure they don't hit each other, but also so that the minute hand crosses 12 when the hour hand strikes an hour. If not, go back and use your plastic tweezers to nudge the minute hand into the right position. Advance the hands again and check your work. The seconds pinion it TINY. So if you haven't been using a magnifier, use one now. Again, line up the hole over the center of the cannon pinion using Rodico. The bottom of the seconds hand has a tiny female part that caps the male pinion. It really only fits one way. When you think you've got it right, press down very gently with the presser. If you pull away the presser and the second hand is still sitting up there, you're almost done. Just press down with the presser using a little more force--that should seat it. Unhack the movement. If the seconds hand starts to move, you're nearly done. Now pick up the watch and turn it around and upside down. Check different positions. If the seconds hand slips around the dial, it's not on firmly enough. Press down gently again and check. If you need to remove the hands at any time, a piece of advice... I much prefer the hand-lever style removers to the presto ones. With the levers, you are in complete control of the amount of force applied. While using your dial protector, just place the tips of the levers against the base of the cannon pinion (levers at 45-degree angle) and gently press the held ends of the levers toward the dial. The hands will pop off. Use Rodico to pick them up. 6. Seat the crystal and press down the bezel The DJ crystal is plexi. It fits over the watch really easily, and serves as its own gasket when the bezel is pressed down. Once you've set the hands in place, you should test fit the crystal to make sure it doesn't interfere with the hands at all. In my case, it did. I only realized it when the movement stopped after I pressed down the bezel--the curvature of the plexi caused the arrow-straight second hand to jam. So I had to pop everything off again, and make the fix. Since you're smarter than me, you will remember to check first. If the hands are a problem, just remove them, bend them a little, and repeat step 5! Once the crystal is on and everything is working OK, make sure the cyclops is properly aligned over the date window. I don't know if this method is correct, but here's how I do it... Using a magnifier, I place myself directly above the cannon pinion and twist the crystal into place. Then, I lower my sight line until I'm just opposite the crown, and the handstack is lined up with the 9 o'clock marker. Checking that the cyclops edges are parallel, I go back and repeat. Cyclops alignment is a little more difficult than it seems, at first, because it can play optical tricks on you. When you're satisfied, it's time to press down the bezel. I have a caseback press, by my dies are too shallow. Instead, I found out that a PVC t-joint worked wonders. Just make sure that you use a little frog tape or something to soften the plastic edges and protect your shiny bezel. Place the bezel around the crystal, line up the PVC joint and press it down. Shouldn't take more than a couple tries to make sure everything is in place. If for some reason you need to remove the bezel, I've found that the best way is to use an Xacto knife to pry it up in one location. A case back knife does the rest. Just be careful to tape up any lugs if you want to use them as leverage. 7. Epilogue That's it. You've got your franken. A couple parting tips: if you scratch your crystal at any point, know that it buffs out pretty well with Meguiar's PlastX (found in an auto parts shops) or Polywatch. Various metal polishes can be used to get scratches out of the case itself. But scratces can add character, too, so whether you leave them is really up to your preference. Getting my 16014 together was just an awesome experience. I love it. It was my grail watch and now I have it. Joy. What's more: my serial number dates my watch to 1983. So, I feel like I'm bringing a little vintage back when I wear it. Which is like every day right now. I hope this guide helped you at least a little. I'm sure I've forgotten some important steps somewhere. But I'm tired of writing, so I'll just stop. In fact, I'm feeling like it's time to grab a drink. I'm just going to throw on my Member's Only jacket and hop in the DeLorean. If you're up for it, let's meet up. I'll be at the Mutiny, wearing this:
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    You just contradicted your own argument, you say he doesn't owe anything to any of us, yet we are entitled to the service we agreed to. Well, very few of us have received the service we agreed to and are waiting longer than we were told both before and after Mike's family troubles. You cannot say that we should all sit tight and not question why our watches have not been returned (repaired or not) when you have no clue about the in's an out's of each our individual 'service agreements' with Mike. Let me hazard a guess and say you don't have any watches with Mike? The thing that annoys me, coming from someone who runs a small business, is Mike's lack of customer service, its all very well for you to say he's a craftsman and his expertise takes time, I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that, however, a professional would have contacted his clients, apologised for the delay and given an ETA on when the job would be finished. This hasn't happened. I have been patient, I PM'd Mike once, no reply. Sent an email 5 weeks ago, no reply. Sent a second email on Tuesday this week, still no reply. If you find that acceptable from a business, any business, then more fool you.
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    It's been a while since I last took a minute to post pictures of a build, but it's not everyday I get to work with Viet parts these days... And I wanted to share about this one. This is a case retailed by Phong. I reshaped it to have a better angle of brushing on the lugs and create large bevels. The polishing was made to give the feeling of an extremely well kept watch. No new. Not half destroyed. Just right. The crown is form the same dealer, but it was completed with an athaya tube featuring the correct seat shape allowing the crown to seat higher. Dial, hands are from Phong as well. The dial was matte: I tripped it and lacquered it with 3 coats of arylic, and finished it with Vernilline to simulate the patina. A puffy lume job after and voilà ! Bracelet is from Yuki of course, refinished with the mirror polishing inside like seen on early models. Inside beats a swiss slow beat and non hacking behaving like a genuine rolex calibre. A super piece to wear and keep !!!!! Enjoy the pics !
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    Okay... First off, I apologize for the very crude, sloppy pics, but I snapped these in a hurry... 570 with an oversized 130; both are about the same diameter (~35mm/36mm): 16622 with the 130: 16234 with the 130: Trio:
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    Guys, I would be working with two other members to produce the correct spec datewheel for our ROO frankens and rep. Yes, we all know how ugly the JF ROO datewheels are so let's not bash it now. The goal is to supply accurate datewheels, literally scanned and copied from one removed from a gen I own, and then reproduced for the ETA2892 movement (franken) and A7750 movement (factory rep). The date font would be 1:1 and the magnified font size would be correct for both the LWO and A7750 variants. There would be no need for special cyclops to be used with these datewheels to achieve the correct magnification effect. The primary datewheel background color would be off white for the majority of the units and perhaps 10% in black with white numbers. The datewheel for the divers might also be produced. Please stay tuned. I will add pics as I go along. 25/4 Progress update 1: Scans of gen datewheel done and produced in different colors/backgrounds Update 2 May 2016: Transposing of the AP date fonts onto images of ETA datewheels and adjustments made for size, position and spacing completed. Vector image produced. Next update: To produce a prototype Omega datewheel on an ETA datewheel and do the necessary adjustment for size, spacing and positions
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    Before I share the watch details and the story here is the specs and two pics: - gen dial - gen tachy - gen hands full set - gen midcase - gen bezel and bezel screws - gen 3126/3840 movement - gen crown and pushers - gen gaskets and seals - gen crystal - gen H series caseback - gen hornback straps - gen clasp Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Hi guys, I mentioned awhile back that I was embarking on a new project. Well, its now ready for public criticism. I had my heart set on building a 3,6,9 PCG sub from the early '60's. Having first acquired a cal 1530 with the appropriate butterfly rotor, I looked for an appropriate case. Luckily (although $$ buys one a lot of luck), I found a genuine 1962 PCG case and decided that an explorer dial is the direction i wanted to go. The watch came complete, but had a more recent cal 1530 and a very bad aftermarket dial. Sadly, the mid case was poorly polished and the bevels were all but destroyed. This is what it looked like when I received it. Truly horrific: I can live with an unpolished case that has worn lugs, but I cannot live with a case that was recently polished poorly. As such, I proceeded to give the mid-case a complete make-over. While a NOS looking case may not be appropriate for a 1962 watch, it’s not uncommon to have the case-refreshed by professionals who know what they are doing. If a case is going to be polished, I’d rather have one done properly that one done poorly. After several hours of surgery and taking steps to ensure the CG’s were minimally touched, here is the end result on the mid-case. I think it’s much more acceptable now: For the dial. There was only one choice. Obviously he cannot be mentioned, but I decided I wanted a 3,6,9 “silvery” gilt dial, exclamation. There are several different varieties of 5512/5513 explorer dials, but I think the one I chose suits the build. The hands are still a work in progress. While genuine, I am still seeking a set of flat hands. The hands I’m using now were a set I had lying around. It’s doesn’t look terrible, but I think flat hands would really finish off the project nicely. Genuine cal 1530: Caseback: Most 5513’s in the early ’60’s used 5512 stamped casebacks. It came with the mid-case and despite the poor polishing, the case was in stellar condition. Not corrosion whatsoever. Complete specs: Genuine ’62 5513 mid-case, caseback Gen cal 1530 Gen Tropic 19 superdome gen 5513 hands custom redial gen 700 twin-lock crown and tube Gen bezel asembly gen Uber-font “Long-5” insert (the only “kissing 50” long 5 i have ever seen) Gen 7206 rivet bracelet with 80 endlinks Just waiting to find the right hands, but until then, here are the semi-finished project: Group shot: On the wrist, the PCG 5513 feels great. I think it’s the slender profile that makes it so comfortable. It’s a little known fact, but the PCG cases were a tad thinner than regular CG 5513’s: I'm hoping to have a set of original flat hands soon, but until then, I will have to live with this as it is.
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    This is the smoking lounge with scotch, cigars and fine wingback chairs ... not the bowling alley. Benson! More Laphroaig neat, if you please.
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    Just past midnight & wearing my Phase I '42
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    Sent from my droptop using telepathy [emoji466]️
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    Hey gang, Long time since I’ve been on the forum; hope all is well with everyone and things are good. Wanted to share this little story of luck, as there is some watch relevance involved and who better to share with than my pals here? Picked up this little porcelain figure at a recent estate sale for my daughter; it’s a little piggy bank painted like a dog. She saw it and immediately thought of our own little doggy, a 12lb Yorkie that coincidentally thinks she’s a pig We paid a small price for the little piggy and got it home where I started prepping it to put in my daughter’s room for piggy bank use. It was packed/stuffed with tissue paper and when I removed all the tissue, this fell out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ha… Only kidding. I *wish* I were that lucky! No, no… Rather, this is just my latest build that I’ve been working on; a 1940’s era steel PPCo As with most of my builds, this one started with a genuine dial with original hard enamel fonts/printings still in tact and in great shape considering (remember, these watches from this time period were not water or element resistant; considering it’s 70-ish years old or so, it’s got some aging, but all very subtle in the overall picture) I managed to pick this dial up for stupid cheap… Less than $100: And shortly thereafter I happened upon the correct 12’’’120 movement to go with it: From there I had the dimensions of the movement measured and a custom case fabricated. Got the case back the other day and got everything together… To finish off, I added a gen Patek gator strap with period correct gen Patek buckle. Has the appearance and feel of being a much larger watch than it's 36mm size might otherwise suggest: Okay, so while I wasn’t lucky enough to happen upon this gem in such a fortunate manner, I do feel fortunate to have managed to see this one through to where it is now Thanks for looking! //ubi
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    Still lugging this old thing around
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    Everybody, everywhere has history they wish they could undo. Stuff they hope the world doesn't uncover. All of us. Does that mean it's the end of the road? Does that mean we're forever stained with no hope of redemption? No. Every one of us has at some point secretly begged for a chance to start over again. We're all in the same boat. Nobody's better than anybody else. So what do we do with that? We extend grace. We swallow and look the other way. Or we grab the guy's hand, look him in the eye and take his measure. There's unspoken communication there, and an understanding. I know... don't do it again. And across the table comes back the same gaze... "Yeah me too." Mutual weakness relies on mutual honesty to build mutual trust. It's a flimsy fabric. But over time we keep looking each other in the eye and taking that measure. Some will rise to the challenge and others will fail. That doesn't mean we don't extend grace and keep looking each other in the eye. That's what communities are for, and where life happens. I sincerely hope I'm worthy of the trust people here place in me. And I hope each of you are worthy of the trust we've placed in you. There are no guarantees, but we can try to know each other and that's a pretty good place to start.
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    For the past six months I have been working on the Pam Guide. It was a dark, very tough, and long road. For those who are unaware of this project. It is, in short, a website hooked to a massive database which contains every rep Panerai. On the website you can filter down by attributes to find a Panerai to your liking. Click on a Panerai for its details. While doing this I neglected both my family and my job for this. But looking back it was worth it! I want to thank Ale from RWI for letting me use his Excel sheet. Without this I would not have been able to accomplish this. And of course you guys, for the kind words that kept me going. If you have any ideas or questions regarding the Pamguide, feel free to post them here. Feedback is appreciated. Also consider a donation to keep this bad boy alive. Even it's just a dollar or two. It's running on a very expensive dedicated server and it's hitting my wallet every month HARD... Ladies and gentlemen, I hereby present THE PAMGUIDE! Upcoming updates: - Strap makers section - Panerai Dictionary - Panerai classification - Panerai - A compare functionality Note: The Pamguide is gets updated when Ale's Excel sheet gets updated. So it is possible that the Pamguide does not contain yesterday's released PAMs.
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    Please! Lets not make him out to be a hero. Reality check is Mike brought this all on himself. He should be apologizing to his customers and then we can all move one. Instead, we're now going to vilify the people that had absolutely horrible customer service. I'm sure Mike's a great guy and I'm happy for all the good work he's done. But let's get at least a little mea culpa and maybe the people that got absolutely horrible service can move on. This whole nonsense is about taking care of customers properly and nobody seems to realize it. And, yes, he did pretty much tell all the forum members to F off!
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    Right this is a blue peter moment (Please ecuse the crappy iphone pics) Thanks to Rolojack i can show you all how to make a vintage silver flat 3 open 6&9 DWO I took a screen shot of his image in the DWO thread converted it to black and white in word and resized it. This needs nothing more than A decent inkjet printer Some self adhesive clear lables your old metal DWOs a bit of scotch bright a sharp craft knife (please get help from grown ups when cutting) Nail varnish remover or isopopenol alcohol A sunday morning with out the shakes Right First get all your old DWOs that are made of metal and a couple of date wheels for 2836/46 and chuck them in alcohol or nail varnish remover and remove all the old printing (this will save microns of clearance space) Once it is all clean take your scotch brite and brush the overlay blank you should end up with some thing like this Now we cut out one of our preprinted clear adhesive over lays and stick it as central as you can to the blank The get an adult to cut away the excess and you will be let with what we want a brushed silver flat 3, open 6&9 overlay now you may have dont it already but remove all the printing and ink from the date wheel And fit it to your movement Next we need some thing to attach the DWO to the DW, i like using clear nail varnish as it sets slowly and can be revoved easily, Dial dots are also good but think about clearance if you go this route Tiny dabs are all you need, Now add the DWO over the top lining the center of one number with the stem Fit you dial and check the positioning of all numbers over (wind the watch forwards and get the date to change as you got through 12am rather t6han jjust click forward in the date set position) there will be slight variation Adjust if nesesary and try again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again untill you are happy two slightly better pictures As we can see here the 20s need to move over to the right a touch, not sure if roloJack could do that??? as the rest are good The printing is better than the pictures actualy show and as good as my MBW DWO in my great white but not as perfect as my gen (The one above was a lower print quality than the one under the rail dial) I think we are moving in the right direction I think if i vectorised the image it would be better, can some one here do that? Many thanks to Rolojack for creating the image in the first place (let me know if you want a few of these) Do not all PM me asking me to make you one as i only have 3 blanks. Platinum members for a small donation to the postage can have the stickers for free, but it would be better if it was vectorised and prfesionaly printed. Thank you for reading and now your thoughts please as to the positioning, font size, and boldness
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    Thoughts about panerai and their history... About a year ago I took down my frogman statue because although I think he's cool (a highly skilled well equipted diver) the history of the frogmen is distasteful. Now at this point I am sure alot of responses will be.. “Modern Panerai has nothing to do with Fascism or the anti-Semetism of 60yrs ago!!”.. however i think this is not always true for several reasons.. One is that modern Panerai has built up a following today by stongly associating the brand with vintage products and the strong history of being a tool watch for military use, hence it has had to set and achieve higher standards than for the public so you should like it more. And second that once a collector is drawn to Panerai the modern watches lose there appeal and they are overtime drawn to more and more vintage items so much so that panerai WIS sometimes build and assemble their own ‘vintage homage’ and are as such are drawn closer to the association of the history. How do you feel and/or how do you balance the strong negativity associated with panerai and your modern day collecting and feelings about the brand? Any one that posts in this thread must set a high standard of thoughtfulness and respect and I trust that the mods will censor any posts deemed inflamatory or divisive. Remember this Forum is about watches and our common uniting hobby.