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Well, after a lot of reading/research within RWG - THANK YOU!… Am (hopefully) finally about to pull the trigger on these, so thought i'd do a quick sanity check before hitting the buy button Settled on either: http://www.1-pc8838.com/rlm00009-milguass-green-sapphire-asian-283631-p-12833.html or http://www.1-pc8838.com/rlm00013-milguass-black-asian-28363131-p-12836.html Is it still better to go clear over the green, even with this update: '….green edging from within…exact as per genuine'? Even though i'd prefer the green, i'm more than OK with getting the clear sapphire model instead Anyway, what do you think, good to go, or should I sulk and go back to the drawing board? cheers s.

Reposting from my tutorial on RWI: http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/diy-build-your-132201.html Here it is, a CHEAP analyzer you can build yourself. If you already have a PC running windows you are 90 percent of the way there. All you need is another $35 or so worth of parts, possibly less if you already have some of it laying around. This tutorial will cover 3 basic steps: Building a pickup. Amplifying and fine tuning an electrical signal. Basic use of sound capture and analyzer software. You’ll notice all 3 of these are probably covered somewhere out there on the world wide web; surely these things have been done before. Years ago I stayed up many nights researching and struggling through trial and error. I did this for several months before coming up with this reliable setup. The purpose of this write-up is to distill all the knowledge I have on these subjects into one easy-to-use tutorial. If you’d like to benefit from my effort, keep reading. Household items required: * Windows PC (I used XP, may work with other versions) with * utility or exacto knife * razor blade * wire stripper (optional) * scissors * pliers * packing tape (3M preferred) Items to purchase (if you don't already have): * old PC microphone * stereo audio cable with 1/8" to 1/8" male ends * $15 Radio Shack mini amplifier part # 277-1008: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062620 * $8 Radio Shack Piezo Pulse Buzzer part # 273-080: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102819 * $5 battery for mini amplifier (9v) Free or demo software downloads required: * Audacity (audio editor): http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ * Delph eTimer: http://www.delphelectronics.co.uk/products.html I recommend downloading and installing the software above BEFORE proceeding. It takes just a few minutes. NOTE: As far as I know the software linked is provided for personal use. I am assuming it is NOT for commercial use. If you are going to use it commercially I highly recommend you purchase the full version. Step 1: Building a pickup. It's not hard to find free or inexpensive waveform or escapement analyzer software. The problem is getting the sound from your tiny watch movement into your PC. You can buy expensive pickups that cost hundreds of dollars (Delph, linked above, provides one for GBP295, about $600USD with full purchase of their software) or you can build your own for a lot less. If you have all the parts handy, you can build this pickup and be analyzing watch movements in under an hour. You don't need any advanced skills. The key to this very inexpensive setup is a commonly available piezoelectric buzzer. You can get one at Radio Shack for about $8. You will need to disassemble the buzzer to get to the element. Though it works like a speaker to produce a buzzing sound, the piezoelectric element is also capable of working backwards, translating pressure into voltage. This is very similar to how a microphone works, but the element inside the buzzer is flat and durable, making it ideal for direct contact amplification. I have also found it to be more sensitive than a microphone for this application. First, start with your buzzer. Here’s the one listed above, from Radio Shack. If you’re not in the US, no problem. It is easy to find piezoelectric buzzers at electronics and hobby stores. Even eBay has them, I just checked (searched using “piezoelectric buzzer”). They are plentiful and inexpensive. I have used other buzzers that cost less than this one, but they were smaller. This one’s just the right size for watchmaking. Here it is unwrapped. Take a screwdriver and separate the center cap from the outer shell. A small one will do just fine. The cap is only glued in, and the plastic is low quality, so it's not difficult. Work all the way around until the cap is removed. This is what you will find inside. A small PCB (circuit board) with transistors and other electronic components. Don't worry, we don't need the circuitry, so if you accidentally broke it no worries. We do, however, need the piezoelectric element. You can see it there, at the bottom. It is brass colored. Whatever you do, do NOT hit or bend that piece! Next, take your pliers and start tearing the plastic. Again, it is soft and easily gives way to the pressure. Just roll it up like a tin can. Make sure you do NOT damage the piezoelectric element. You can move the circuit board out of the way. Peel off enough plastic to give yourself a clear shot at the element. Then take your utility knife, exacto knife, or a razor blade and cut the silicone bead that attaches the element to the plastic housing. Completely remove the element and circuit board. Throw away the housing. The piezoelectric element is very delicate. It will break if you apply too much force, strike it too hard, or bend it. So be very gentle. Using your knife or blade, cut the wires as close as possible to the circuit board. Time to clean up the element. Take out your razor blade and carefully scrape off as much slicone as possible. There should be just a small trace left. Now take your packing tape and cover the element on both sides. Why must you cover the element in tape? The metal surface of the element is porous; it attracts and retains dirt and dust. Covering it in tape provides a scratch-free surface which is easily wiped and cleaned. You'll understand the importance later when you put your movement holder or, in some cases, your movement itself directly onto the element. I highly recommend 3M packing tape. It's wide, shiny, and non-porous compared to other tapes. It is durable and will last for years, and it can easily be wiped. One of my elements is still going strong many years later after coating with 3M packing tape. Trim the packing tape with scissors as needed for a clean edge. Now pull out your old PC microphone. If you don't have one handy, I suppose you could use another device or another cable as long as it has a 1/8" MONO (not stereo) plug. Cut the cable, being sure to leave yourself plenty of slack. Then strip the outer insulation, about an inch from the end. IMPORANT: Make sure you do not cut through any of the metal conductor strands that lie just below the insulation. I find it works best to just score the plastic and then pull on it so it tears clean. Wire strippers work best but aren’t absolutely necessary. Strip the insulation from the inner wire, about a quarter inch up from where you stripped the outer insulation. This will ensure that the metal strands of each conductor do not touch each other. Again, try not to cut through any of the strands. If you cut more than a couple you will need to start all over. You need as many strands as possible to conduct the tiny signal that will be generated. Next, twist the strands so they stick together and form solid wire. Connect with the microphone cable by simply twisting the wires together. Now cover the connection in more tape and trim neatly. When I build mine, I solder the connections and seal it all up with heat shrink tubing, but that’s not absolutely necessary. I have been known to overdo things. You are dealing with miniscule amounts of voltage here, no risk of shock at all. Congratulations, your piezoelectric pickup is finished. Step 2: Amplifying and fine tuning a signal. The piezoelectric pickup will take the tiny vibrations from a watch movement and translate them into an electrical signal. But that signal is extremely weak, so to be useful it needs to be greatly amplified. For this you will use the highly sensitive Radio Shack mini amplifier listed above. For members not based in the US again you will want to visit your electronics or hobby stores, or search eBay. Most music stores may have what you need as well. Just make sure you buy a mini amp that has high gain, has 1/8” mono input and 1/8” stereo output. You can use the specifications sticker in the second image below as a guideline. Again here is the link to the Radio Shack item: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062620 Here is one of mine, already several years old (stamped 2009): I marked my “off” position with a fine permanent marker, and I highly recommend doing this so you can readily tell when the unit is on. I wasted many 9 volt batteries before I figured out I should do this. Take the 1/8” mono plug from your newly made piezoelectric pickup and plug it into the input jack. Now grab your stereo audio cable. It should have a 1/8” male plug on each end. The plug looks like this: Plug one end into the output jack of the mini amplifier. Then take the other end and plug it into your PC’s audio input jack. On some PCs there are both a mic level input and an auxiliary audio input. Do not use the mic input, as our amplified signal is too strong for it. Use the auxiliary or “line in” input. If you are using a laptop, there is usually just one audio input – use that one. I am using a desktop computer which I built myself, running Windows XP Pro and using a Realtek audio sound card with included mixer software. It looks like this. Notice I have the rotary [censored] for the “record” setting turned all the way up. Most PC users can just double-click on their audio speaker icon in the system tray or go to the control panel to bring up the standard windows audio mixer which looks like this: If you click on options > properties you will see the box below. Under “adjust volume for” you will need to select recording to view the slide adjuster for your input volume. Slide it all the way up. Notice mine is grayed out because the Realtek software overrides it, otherwise I’d show you what to look for. NOTE: As there are so many combinations of hardware, operating system, and device driver out there, I can’t begin to cover every possible setup. I can only tell you what works for me so that you can use it as a general guidline. You may have to play with your particular system to get it to work for you. Now put your movement or movement holder directly onto the pickup. Don’t be bashful, put it right on there. See the various examples I show below to understand how you can hold the movement in its different positions (CU, CL, DD, etc.). If you are in the middle of assembling a watch and just want a quick reading to see if it’s running well before proceeding, you can put the movement DU directly on the pickup. Just remove your finger cot and do a quick swipe with your finger to remove any dust or lint. Be sure to do that EVERY single time you put the movement directly onto the pickup. Otherwise you will need to re-clean your movement and start all over again. Finally, turn on the mini amplifier and turn the volume all the way up. You are ready to rock and roll. Now any vibrations picked up by the piezoelectric element will be greatly amplified and piped directly into the PC sound card. Time to use the capture and analyzer software. Step 3: Basic use of sound capture and analyzer software. The free demo version of Delph Electronics’ escapement analyzer software is great, but one big difference from the paid version is that it is only capable of analyzing recordings. In other words, you cannot use it in real time. While that may sound like a disadvantage, I find it is not. I personally prefer to keep recordings on hand so I can save them for a while and go back to them at a later date if needed. You cannot do that with real-time results. Since the software can only analyze recordings, we need to be able to capture audio and save it to our hard drive as wave (.wav) files. To do this, I use Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ It’s free, installs quickly, and is very easy to use. Out on the web there is plenty of info on using Audacity (and other freeware sound capture for that matter) so I’m only going to cover the bare essentials. With the mini amp volume turned up all the way, and your sound input level turned up all the way, launch Audacity. Simply click the red “record” button to start a recording. When you want to stop, click the yellow “stop” button. Click on file > export as wav… and select the location where you will store your wave file. Remember the location, because you will need to know it later. For how long should you record? Well that’s really up to you, and it depends on what you’re doing. When I am regulating and adjusting a movement, I typically just take 10 second recordings since it may take me 5 or 10 runs and sometimes many more before I get the rate and beat error right. If I took 1 minute recordings for each of those runs it would easily take me a half hour just to regulate a watch. As I get closer to my desired rate and beat error, I take longer recordings, usually about 20 seconds. As a final step when finished regulating and adjusting, I may take a 30 to 60 second recording. Take a look at the 10 second recording below. This is a gen 2892-based Perrelet movement I just serviced. Even without the analyzer software you can learn a lot about the movement using a simple Audacity recording. See how fairly consistent the peaks and valleys are with one another? See how the ticks are clean and distinct from one another? Notice there are no extra ticks, no galloping, no overbanking (yes you can see that easily when it occurs)? Can you count 8 beats per second (8 bps x 60 sec x 60 min = 28,800 bph)? Such a visual representation of a movement’s performance is very valuable. In contrast, compare this recording of a poorly running genuine Rolex 3035 movement I have in for service. Do you see the difference? Can you tell the amplitude of this movement is almost nonexistent? Without even opening the watch I can tell that there are no broken gear train parts and most likely the lubricants are simply dried up (eg. time for full service). Here is a look at a longer recording. You can record for as long as you want, literally days at a time if you desire. The only limit is your hard drive space (I have 1TB encrypted). Now it is finally time to use the Delph electronics escapement analyzer software. As soon as you launch it, you get an error message. Don’t worry, you did nothing wrong. This error message simply tells you that the microphone is not picking anything up. That’s because this is the demo version, and it does not allow microphone use by design. Just click OK to make the message go away. In fact, each time you select a new wave file to use the same message will pop up; just click OK to make it go away. Now, at the top, click on file > choose waveform file. A box will pop up, and you will need to navigate to your saved wave file and select it. Once you select your file, the analyzer begins to play the file back and starts analyzing it. But we need to tweak a bit first. We need to change the rate. If you don’t know the rate of your movement, go back to your Audacity recording and count the number of ticks per second. In this case, our movement is 28.8k and we will select it in the drop-down list. Note the “boost” plus and minus buttons; use these to increase the level of playback as needed. Also feel free to grab the drop and unlock thresholds and adjust them if you need to. Remember, each time the error message pops up just click OK. Ignore the straight line in the lower part of the virtual vibrograph paper; it is from the sample waveform that automatically plays each time the software is launched. If you want to erase the whole strip you can do so easily. Now we are finally getting a reading that is somewhat meaningful (at the top of the paper strip). After a few seconds the readings level off. The waveform will be played and analyzed in a loop forever until you stop it, note the short tracks created each time. If you choose to play a 1 or 2 minute recording, you will get a long continuous line of tick marks. Note this Perrelet movement is running about +5 seconds per day in DU position with very good amplitude of ~300 degrees and fairly low beat error of 0.3 milliseconds. I just completed the service and hadn’t even regulated/adjusted it yet – see how well it runs with just a good cleaning and lube? It was received barely running. Give me 5 minutes and I’ll get that beat error down to 0.1 or maybe even 0.0. That’s all for now. We could discuss actual use of the analyzer for days and days. I’m sure the forum members can use this tutorial as a springboard to launch those interesting discussions. G

TC 2824 vs ETA 2824-2 The companies made this movement will announce its proper designation in a few months so let's just call this "TC 2824" for now. Not long after I picked up this hobby, I realized I had to find an alternative. I've looked into the possibility of Japanese movements. Didn't go that route because Seiko/Miyota movements are damn hard to micro adjust to all 5 or 6 positions. I'm not saying the Japanese movements are inferior or of less quality built. I'm just saying they are less refined. I had to turn to "Clones", whether a Swiss clone or a Chinese clone as long as they do the job, I'll take 'em. Sellita didn't want my business because my order quantity was too small for them. The Chinese would take my business but all three major Chinese movement makers frown upon my quality requirements. I asked nothing more than a "standard grade" of ETA 2824-2. That is an average rate of (within) +/-12 seconds/day, with a maximum deviation of 30 seconds. Plus I want #4 Canon Pinion. I had no luck with the Chinese. They either wouldn't guarantee quality or they just won't make an ETA 2824-2 clone in #4 canon pinion. The standard #2 canon pinion is what they would supply. Why #4 canon pinion is so important to me? Because it eliminates the factor other reps looks FAKE and UGLY! FAIL: TC 2824 #4 CANON PINION GEN FEATURE: This comes to fruition after a very long 11 months of wait. TC 2824 with #4 Canon Pinion: Gen ETA 2824-2 with #4 Canon Pinion: Let's see how well "TC 2824" movement performs. Thanks to Xperia78 for videos and commentaries. Some significant features of TC 2824 I want to highlight: Smooth line - that means very high quality hairspring and balance wheel. deviation is minimal, less than 5 seconds. steady performance in all 5 or 6 positions. These features that TC 2824 displays prove it a high quality movement. It easily out performs some lower grade ETA blank movements. Now you've seen how well TC 2824 performs, I want to take you into a more in depth view of the movement. Before we do, I want to refer a great article on WUS. It's an 9 pages long discussion and tear down of ETA 2824-2 and the Chinese clones: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html I want to review TC 2824-2 in the same depth so let's tear down a TC 2824 and make a comparison with an ETA 2824-2. First thing that is visually different, the shock resistant system - This is Etachoc or so called Novodiac shock system from ETA. This is TCBLOC. It actually has a term: "the simple cushion" according to the maker. It is a clone of Etachoc/Novodiac shock system with a simpler design. It offers the same performance, but the cost of making it is significantly lower than its ETA counterparts. The simple cushion is cheap and readily available. It is seen on almost all ETA clones. TCBLOC is also very easy to replace with a "Incabloc" shock absorb if you know how to do it. Let's put TC 2824 to a real life drop test. You should prevent your watch from dropping no matter what. When a mechanical movement encountered too much shock it will break just like everything else. I did the real life test for you so you need not. Neither the company behind TC 2824 or I will provide free service if the movement malfunctions due to drop. TC 2824 consists of 26 jewels while ETA 2824-2 is made of 25 jewels. The Chinese Seagull ST2130 has 28 jewels. The Hangzhou 6300 has 25 Jewels. The Swiss Sellita SW200 also has 26 jewels. The barrel bridge side by side. This is where TC 2824 has one extra jewel to ETA 2824-2. Sellita SW200 Barrel Bridge: http://zairyoya.kuron.jp/tokeibuhin/sellita_sw_200_105_barrel_bridge. Now, I'm not saying the company behind TC 2824 supplies Sellita blanks for SW200. I am not saying anything at all. These are Nivarox balance spring and Glucydur balance wheel. You haven't hear me say how I like TC 2824 yet. I don't like it, I LOVE IT! See how it is chamfered where the bridge is closest to the balance wheel? (Left) It reduces the chance balance wheel touches the bridge when the whole movement is in shock. You don't see that in a standard ETA 2824-2. The company behind TC 2824 has put a lot of thoughts in micro adjusting the design of this movement. I'll say it again, I LOVE TC 2824. This is TC 2824 performance spec sheet vs ETA 2824-2 Standard grade: With all the findings, I categorize TC 2824 a "super clone" and the "answer" for independent watchmakers. Thanks for reading. TC

The internet is a great asset for us guys that are home 24/7 I would go nuts without it! I hope you situation resolves itself with time brother

Okay gang. This was my first venture into the world of Reps so go easy on my naivete. And please feel free to offer advice I can use for future purchases. I decided to go with Perfect Clones for my first transaction although I'll try TrustyTime next. I also decided on an Omega for my first rep because it's not as widely recognized as Rolex nor as flashy. Purchased the $148.00 version from Perfect Clones with the Asian 4813 movement 21J 28800 bph. Since I was kinda skittish about buying a replica watch from China, I decided on an inexpensive model first just to see how the transaction went. To test the waters, so to speak. Transaction: I paid with PP and had to use an external site. Totally understood the reason so it wasn't that sketchy for me. I received the QC pics the day I placed the order on 25JAN13. I wanted some additional angles and received more pics on 28JAN13. Approved the QC pics on 29JAN13. Received the watch 07FEB13. Not bad. Now that I have it, this is what I think about the Watch: I like: Overall, I like the weight and feel of the watch. Very solid feel to it. It's a very nice watch and I'll have no problem wearing it. I don't think people will look at this watch and assume it's a replica. I'm not going to have a problem wearing it. I don't like: (1) The dial. From forum research I knew there was an issue with the Omega symbol being too close to the print. However, it was really hard to see from the QC pics. Even when I got new pictures I couldn't really tell how high off the print the symbol was. The real problem is that because of the mirror finish you can only see the symbol from an angle. And at an angle it looks like it has more distance that it actually does have. (2) The lume is lumpy in some places including inside the pip. I could not see this from the QC pics. (3) the movement is not as smooth as I thought it would be. Side by side, it was only a little bit smoother than my Seiko 6309 17J 21600 bph. (4) The clasp sucks! It's hard as hell to get it seated. I had to extend the wetsuit extension and reseat it so the space could accomodate the outer arm. I don't look forward to testing my index-to-thumb grip strength every morning when I want to wear this thing. (5) The crown doesn't feel very tight when I manipulate it to change the time or date. The hands jump around when I engage and set the crown unless I push it in perfectly centered. The second hand also goes backward if I move the minute hand backward. This is weird to me. (6) WR I can see that there is no bushing or O ring around the crown or tube so I'm pretty sure this thing will totally leak if wet. It's not that I hate the watch. Not at all. I'll probably wear this at work as an every-day wearer type of thing. It did open my eyes to the challenging world of purchasing replica watches. There are so many variables that it seems overwhelming. But that's the fun part of the hobby no? Sorry for the pics but I only had my iPhone available at the time.

Another example of Minh's dials, again one is made gen like and the other is not. The second dial is 300$ and the first is 1000$. Can you see how the gilt is painted or printed on top of the lacquer on the cheaper one and coming through from the plate in the more expensive one. A trick is to look for any shadowing on the gilt text, that tells us that it has texture and angles and is in fact painted on. No shadows on the proper gilt text because it has no depth or relief whatsoever it's simply coming through from the plate. You might want to read this it explains it a bit more. http://rolexpassionreport.com/8112/be-aware-of-the-new-generation-redone-fake-vintage-rolex-dials-that-are-coming-to-the-market/

I'm biased because TC 2824 is American. The company behind it will announce its proper designation in a few months.

PMs SENT to first four replies i'll share some pics of the new CAD drawings i had completed last week, these were done locally not outsourced over seas so no one can steal (with hold and claim) these from me it will probably need some revising once i get a new prototype in hand and can physically inspect it. waiting on a quote for a sample from one manufacturer and shopping around for others that dont have an MOQ of 500 cases or more. this is a base 5513 as every other case its just a variation of this base model. (you can see it draws a lot of symmetry from an MBK case )

Welcome to the online black hole for savings and credit cards cj! Read up, participate/ go bananas!

Stick to the Trusted Dealers. Take your time to go through the forum and learn your way into this world. You'll save yourself a lot of money and grievance. Remember, there is no such thing as a Swiss 1:1 replica. They are Chinese and pretty darn close to the original but you'll never find a 1:1. Welcome aboard.

The same reason any country needs an army - to protect our rep watches from all the rep mongers! Can't think of another reason. I go to sleep soundly every night knowing someone is protecting my reps