Leaderboard

To the OP. No expert still a noob but bought 10 watches or so in last few months. I like both the TC and BK. But they are very different watches. One based on the modern sub ceramic (BK) which is wider at the lugs and has a ceramic bezel insert and one based on the classic sub size with classic insert (TC). You can google the models online to review. I will say for a watch guy who really does not have a lot of knowledge or modding expertise, buying these is nice because they come ready to wear, running well with everything aligned. I have had issues with out of box reps and have had to send them to be fixed as I am yet capable to do it myself. I like them both. To me it is worth the extra money and waiting time. There are features I like about the BK as I like the glide lock clasp a lot. But I have had many genuine classic subs and still like the size and feel of the old school 16610 sub like the TC. To me both have the "feel" of a gen time piece but they both have "little" tells that even someone like me can see which as some other posts suggested can be corrected with some gen parts. At the end of the day just need decide what style you like best. Also can look for a watch in the sales area. I have had better luck buying from other members than from the factories and in many cases these are already "modded or fixed" to be better with gen goodies. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First of all a big thanks to Toro Bravo for a lightning fast delivery and smooth transaction. You can't go wrong with him and he is definitely on his way to being one of the best dealers throughout the boards. So here it is guys. My review and opinion on the new p3000 clone. I will not go into the watch itself because member Ale has done some very extensive research and has aded all the info to his 'panerai bible' so look it up. I will start with a short 'management summary' before I continue to the pictures. This movement is not based on an existing movement. It has 2 barrels and the movement design mimics the genuine p3000 design. It is however completely different. Genuine parts are absolutely not interchangeable. I have never taken apart a genuine p3000 so I can only go by internet pictures. If I would have to set my money on a manufacturer of the p3000 clone it would be the factory that produces the IWC Jones movement. In terms of finishing and design I get the same vibe. Besides both barrels the movement was oiled properly and clean. Parts were finished well according to rep standards. Some plating issues here and there and discolouration of metal. But when dealing with Chinese movements this is normal and it does not affect long term reliability. The p3000 clone was easy to take apart and is absolutely serviceable. Getting it back together is a different story. The gear train is extremely wobbly and the gear train plate very difficult to assemble. You need a special tweezer in order to reach all the gears and align them properly with the jewels. It was perhaps the hardest bridge I have ever had to install. Especially because spare parts are non existent. So if you break one little pivot say bye bye to the movement. Also because most jewel holes lay very deep it is almost impossible to see what you are doing when oiling them. Even with a 10x loupe you are almost working in the dark... But when finished this movement runs like a champ and I see no reason why it would be any less reliable than an 6497. I think this p3000 clone is on par. I can not yet comment of the power reserve as I immediately torn the movement apart to review but I suspect it will reach those 72h without a problem. The details: When I first saw the p3000 when it came out a couple of weeks ago I was very excited. The p9000 clones could not get my motor started as they did not clone any of it's functions. Only the aesthetics was looked after with some decorative plates. A pig in a dress or whatever you want to call it. But this new p3000 clone however was a whole different story. I could clearly see this was not based an existing movement (e.g. 7750/ 6497/2824 etc). So I did not hesitate and ordered one right away to review... Upon arrival I could not take my eyes from the back. The movement just looks gorgeous. Nice detail inside case back They even hid the ugly movement tabs underneath the pretty ones lol. Before taking the movement apart I put it on the timegrapher. It runs at 21.600 bph and the amplitude was ok but rate and beat were off. As this new movement has a free sprung balance (so I thought) I was a bit terrified as regulating it can be a b!tch. However upon closer inspection I noticed the rate stud hidden order the bridge. Thank god! That means the stellar screws on the balance are for show and this movement can be regulated like any other. Here you can see it more clearly with the decorative plate removed. An incabloc shock absorber which is also very reliable. Solid bridge and underside balance view. Clean "POL" engraving underneath the balance. No clue what it stands for. The oiled barrel jewels Look at the 3 layered dial!!!!!.... That will need a special canon pinion right? Huh?.. That is a deep hole. No special canon pinion but special hands. So forget replacing them.. Here you can see the base plate with the dial removed. Nicely finished and clean. No date option and a normal keyless which has some grease... Some part close ups.. Here is the barrel bridge removed. Nice and solid. The 2 barrels exposed The underside of the barrel bridge (I used foil with this movement as the brushed plates are prone to scratches) Barrel 1 (clean but not oiled) Barrel 2 (clean but not oiled) Here you can see both main springs. The barrel 2 mainspring is longer. Here is the gear train. Completely different than the gen p3000 with a aded pinion to transfer the power to the top of the movement: the canon pinion (= minute wheel) The pinion I'm talking about Other parts are also well finished Final shot on the timegrapher taken a hour ago after full service and regulation. Performing like a gen ... Here is a genuine p3000 (pictures from Google search) and you can see the similarities and differences in bridges and gears. Well that was all folks. Hope you liked the review. Based on my findings I would say the watch is definitely worth the extra $100. Although not a 100% the same in appearance and function as the p3000 it comes very close. Maybe the closest we will ever see? It is a reliable movement and it will give you that extra dimension of a genuine feeling. I'm still testing it so unfortunately I can not yet comment on the power reserve whether it actually is 72h. But I think it will come close. Tanks for reading Mark

I have the earlier 5004 and the hands were slightly narrower. I think in 2012 the 5004 (faux PR) was updated to slightly wider hands, and better lume too. I have both versions.

Thanks again guys, here's a wristie from jamrock and a few randoms, What a nice country!

A rep is a rep until you try and pass it off as a gen, then it becomes a fake!! A very clever, but forgetful, sealion told me that! Wise words!

Wearing the contestant at the left

Since I started the fascination with Swiss watches a decade ago, I have owned a few, but never a Constellation. I would try on the blue and the silver SS models, and I never really felt a connection. I do like exhibition backs and when I saw the 38mm chronometer I became a fan, but didn't act on purchasing one. A couple of months ago I decided I wanted one, and was told they no longer had the Stellita movement, as the prices sky-rocketed! I tried a few TDs and only Trusty said he could still get one. I went ahead... the first QC pics showed a 35mm that was not at all the same watch... fortunately I noticed the issues and was told to wait for new ones. When the new ones came through... I was impressed. It was the correct one! What do I like about it? AR on both sides--invisible crystal sometimes beautiful special sunburst pattern, originating at the applique star above the 6 marker very well detailed and beautifully finished hands (brushed center, sharp edges, bevelled seconds hand) and dial and markers 1:1 case shape and bracelet finishing a very beautifully finished brand new Swiss Stellita SW-200-1 a decorated movement spacer ring very accurate and precise excellent finishing... amazing when compared to gen... amazing very high quality overall... This is the Stellita SW-200-1. This is the decoration and quality.... did they have to go this far? no. But they did. So it dawned on me. This is a beautiful and well-crafted watch, rep or not. It shows that some makers choose to excel with quality. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery--and that's exactly what this is. They could've cut so many corners... but they didn't. I wish all my reps were THIS good and THIS honest lol.