JoeyB
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Posts posted by JoeyB
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In most cartel watches the DG2813 can be replaced by an ETA 2836-2 or ETA 2846. A few members have been able to make the ETA 2893-2 fit, but it is some work. The ETA uses different sized hands than the DG. The DG GMT hand is the same pinion size as the converted ETA2836/2846. The ETA 2893-2 is not the same size GMT hand. That movement takes the genuine Rolex sized GMT hand.
Hand sizes:
DG3804B (DG2813 GMT)1.00/1.50/.17/2.00
ETA 2836-2 (Chinese conversion) .90/1.50/.25/2.00
ETA 2893-2 .90/1.50/.25/1.8
None are the correct hand stack. All the movements mentioned here. The DG, and all the ETA movements are incorrect hand stack for the Rolex GMT since 1981, with the 16750, and newer.
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Beautiful 6204! Your hands are perfect! Did you make the hour and seconds hands?
Very nice!
Thank you. Yes, I pieced them together and shaped them. The hour hand from a maxi minute hand.
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The Chicago BlackHawks win the Stanley Cup in 6 games from the Tampa Bay Lightning. Great series, great hockey by both teams. I've been lifelong a BlackHawk fan, saw Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita help win it in 1961 with the original 6 team NHL. 49 years later Toews and Kane helped win the 1st of 3 through tonight. Marián Hossa, Niklas Hjalmarsson and Duncan Keith were simply great.
CONGRATULATIONS BLACKHAWKS!
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Does no one actually do research anymore? It's not that hard to find posts about pretty much any Rolex build anyone wants to attempt.
First of all, if you are choising between a franken 1675 and a 16710, you should be going with the 1675 as parts are more redily available and the end result will be better. You also get a correct hand stack.
If your heart is set on the 16710, then start with this post, which pretty much gives you the blueprint for doing the best project you can.
And this one.
http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/168260-my-new-gmt-master-ii-franken/
Getting the old Explorer II case will be the tricky part.
Better yet, post a WTB for a BK Transformer.
Tomhorn, you are exactly right. The 16710 was a very nice build, I love the way it turned out. The only tell, as you said, is the incorrect hand stack. The 1675 with either the ETA or DG movement would have the correct hand stack.
The 1675 uses a 5.3mm crown, the 16710 uses a 6mm crown.
I bought both donor watches from TrustyTime, The 16570 used for the 16710 http://www.ttw8888.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=+%09ROLEXP2032+&x=21&y=29
and the 1655 used for the 1675 http://www.ttw8888.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=+%09ROLEXP2009+&x=21&y=25
Both are modded as needed, and both can be ordered with either ETA or DG movement, so the fit of the movement is easier in your build. Both take the 28mm dial.
Gen spec crystals can be used. I used crystals, bezels and inserts for both from Clark's.
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Or.. the Gruen stopped ticking and Bond ended up buying a new watch from the Duty-Free catalogue on the flight over the Atlantic.
Well, we do know for certain that Bond did not buy a rep 6538. Back then replicas had quartz movements.
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Nice thread.
And to add my two cents, the very first time we see Sean Connery as 007 in "Dr. No," while he plays a round of chemin de fer, or baccarat against Sylvia Trench at the Le Cercle at Les Ambassadeurs, he is wearing a Gruen Precision 510. Later in the same movie he wears the Rolex 6538 on a dark brown crocodile strap as clearly seen in the Geiger counter scene and Crab Cay beach scene.
And it is after his card game that Bond reports to M. This is the conversation in M's office"
M: The American CIA sent a man down to work with Strangways. A fellow called Leiter. Do you know him?
007: I've heard of him. Never met him. Has he found out anything important?
M: Better ask "him". You're booked on the 7 o'clock plane to Kingston. That gives you exactly three hours, 22 minutes. You'll get a set of background paper at the airport, in a self-destructor bag. You can study them during the flight. I want to know what's happened to Strangways.
007: Sir.
M: Take off your jacket. Give me your gun. Yes, I thought so. This damn Beretta again. I've told you about this before. You tell him - for the last time.
Armourer: Nice and light - in a lady's handbag. No stopping power.
M: Any comments, 007?
007: I disagree, sir. I've used a Beretta for ten years. I've never missed with it yet.
M: Maybe not, but it jammed on your last job and you spent six months in hospital. A double-O number means you're licensed to kill, not get killed. And another thing. Since I've been head of Ml6, there's been a 40% drop in double-O casualties. I want it to stay that way. You'll carry the Walther. Unless you'd prefer to go back to standard intelligence duties?
007: No, sir. I would not.
M: Then from now on you carry a different gun. Show him.
Armourer: Walther PPK. 7.65mm with a delivery like a brick through a plate-glass window. Takes a Brausch silencer, with little reduction in muzzle velocity.
M: The American CIA swear by them. Thank you, Major Boothroyd.
Armourer: Thank you, sir.
M: Any questions, 007?
007: No, sir.
M: All right, then. Best of luck.
007: Thank you, sir. Sir?
M: Just leave the Beretta.
So, Bond was wearing the Gruen and carrying the Beretta before he reported to M.
Bond left M's office to meet CIA agent Felix Leiter in Kingston, with a CIA recommended Walther PPK.
After meeting Leiter and Quarrel, we see 007 wearing a Rolex 6538 on a dark brown crocodile strap in the Geiger counter scene and Crab Cay beach scene.
Based on these facts, I can only surmise that the initial story is accurate. I'd think Bond and MI6 owe the CIA's Felix Leiter some gratitude.
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Freddy, It's the spook world, and I've already divulged too much. I can neither confirm nor deny the related story.
alligoat, yep, the picture of the guy with the binoculars (and metal watch band) is Goldfinger's Leiter, along with the Thunderbird at an early KFC.
The pearl actually looks great in person, matching the lume color. I use a dab of lume and a tiny drop of epoxy. For some reason it picks up the light in photos and looks much lighter than it is.
Thanks! This is the redone 6204. I re-cased it using a Tiger 2 case modified, a Clark's crystal, a new homemade dial, homemade bezel. The 6mm Brevet crown is from Rafflestime, the 13mm minute hand from Helenarou, the hour and second hands are modded, all 3 bare brass. Power provided by ETA 2846.
The case engraving is really nice, done lightly as per the old days, and done by our very own JMB.
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Most everyone knows that the iconic British Secret Service Agent James Bond, 007 wore a Rolex Submariner 6538 ‘big crown’. There are a few stories about how that came to be, but like most of the early Rolex sport models, nothing can be verified.
I got this story straight from the man who was there, Felix Leiter, Central Intelligence Agency.
At the time, the MI6 agents were flamboyant, while the CIA agents were, by company policy, in the shadows. It was in the movie ‘Dr. No’ that we found the very first hint of just how influential the CIA had become to MI6. 007 is summoned to M’s office for assignment, and is ordered to surrender his Beretta. 007 had been hospitalized for months when it failed. M ordered 007 to use the Walther PPK, just as the CIA used. Yes fellow RWG fans, that was Felix who made the recommendation.
Upon arriving in Jamaica Bond meets his CIA contact. This is where 007 was tutored by Leiter to go on to become the Bond we have come to know.
Felix returns his weapon, introduces him to Quarrel, and they have a good laugh at Bond’s graduation party.
The CIA stayed in the shadows.
007 had the fancy car, the CIA was more discreet.
While James got the girl, Leiter could only watch…
Speaking of watch, Felix also was the one who recommended that James get a Rolex Submariner. Having been a founding member of the Underwater Demolition Teams, ‘UDT’ during World War 2, naturally Rolex came to Felix for advice when Jacques Cousteau asked them for a diver’s watch. The CIA agent aware of Bond’s clumsy, big hands, suggested the ‘big crown’ 6538. The rest is, of course, history.
Oh, you want to know what watch the legendary CIA Agent Felix Leiter wore? The very first diver’s watch, of course. The Rolex Submariner 6204.
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I'd suggest you try our Trusted Dealers.
(I just couldn't resist!)You said a 116610, and Andrew has them. Here is the one with the DG movement:
http://www.ttw8888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=11336
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As I wrote in another thread:
A brand new ETA 2836-2 is $239.00 from Otto Frei. You would have the knowledge that it is genuine Swiss and a warranty.
http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html
The ETA 2892-2 is better. $329.00, same page.
The problem is fitting it to your watch. As already said, if it is a Chinese DG movement the dial feet are in the wrong position and the hands will not fit an ETA. Hands to fit the ETA are available in the Rolex 'Tudor' line, gen or aftermarket.
If you have the Chinese movement, it is likely the DG2813. They can be hit or miss, but will usually last a good 3 to 5 years with no issues. My Son has one in the 16610 Submariner I got for him from one of our trusted dealers in China, wore it through all 4 years at University of Hawaii in the ocean and out, and even cliff diving with it. (Yes, I have been permanently scarred by parenthood )
The DG2813 is $28.95 from Otto Frei, again guaranteed to be new and guaranteed to run as it's supposed to. And they are CLEAN, unlike the ones that come in our finished reps. It is recommended when buying a rep from our trusted dealers, regardless what movement including 'Swiss' to have it serviced as soon as you receive it. I doubt many do that, but it is strongly recommended by the knowledgeable here on this site.
http://www.ofrei.com/phttpage1119.html
Everyone needs to choose for themselves if they want a genuine Swiss movment, an 'Asian' ETA, or Chinese movement. I have all 3. A genuine Swiss movement, including Rolex and ETA, needs service roughly every 5 years. That service ranges from about $200 and up, as you likely know from your genuine watches.
Having serviced a Chinese movement once (only once-never again ) I recommend that to service a Chinese movement like a DG2813 you remove the movement from the case. Remove the hands and dial. A tool to open the case, a hand remover tool, a set of nice screwdrivers, and a hand installing tool would be needed. Cost varies but you can get all that for under $100 from Frei. Place the movement on your workbench.
Hit the thing with a 40 ounce ball peen hammer and sweep the mess into the garbage.
Take the brand new movement and install in reverse order.
The worst that can happen is you mess it up and take it to your watch guy and he finishes it. The absolute worst disaster that can happen is that you get some help from fellow members here, it goes beautifully, and you believe you have a new talent and these brand new tools that just scream to be used again. They will draw you in to start working on and modding watches like the rest of us. Be forewarned!
The DG3804B is the GMT version of the DG2813. -
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The dial diameter is the problem. Most need to be adjusted for the Tiger 2. But if the dial is finished properly, the chapter ring is the same, 26mm, regardless what the diameter of the dial is.
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The chapter ring itself measures 26mm in diameter. It fits the Tiger2 case quite well. Hard to see in my pic, but the 'SWISS' shows completely, not cut off at all.
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As already said, the GMT conversion for the ETA 2836-2 and ETA 2646 is a Chinese gear set added on. It does work quite well, though is slightly out of sync. It might need a reset every couple of months, so it is no big deal. The only drawback is that the pinion size is larger, so a genuine Rolex GMT hand will not fit it.
Why the ETA 2892-2 in your attachment? ETA makes the ETA 2893-2, which is a GMT movement from the Swiss factory. The genuine Rolex GMT hand does fit it. Both are considered on par with genuine Rolex movements.
The thing that's nice about the Rolex 6542 and the 1675 GMTs is that the ETA is the correct hand stack.
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Well done!
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Hopefully it's hotter than this...
Mom!!??!
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So, how good is this franken, and what is its value?
I don't think it's a good franken. The movement is worth money, and I do like that case. But the rest can be much better and more accurate.
$4 to $5 thousand usd? I'd rather have a genuine 1675 - 16710 for about the same money.
And being frugal (cheap!), I love my homemade replica!
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JoeyB, I would say without hesitation that you are THE authority and expert on the 6542. Much respect!!
Thank you, but I think freddy333 is the top. I learned most from him.
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The seller claims that the crystal in genuine Rolex, but would that be the 25-115, or more likely the 25-116. He also claims "the buckle/clasp are genuine Rolex".
A Rolex chapter ring itself is 26mm in diameter. The genuine GMT hand is 13mm, center of mounting hole to the tip. The early minute hands were 13mm, later made to 12mm. I don't know when they were shortened. You can find many examples with the shorter 12mm hand that look original. So, the tip of the GMT hand, and the tip of the hour hand should go to the chapter ring, not past it.
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He says just what it is. I wonder if it will pass Ebay muster if Rolex complains. If it does, 'Katy bar the door', cause all heck will break through.
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Both movements are 11.5 ligne, so fitting the case should not be an issue at all. One problem will be lining up the stem height, which can be done using a dial spacer. But then the big problem will be the GMT hand set up. As was stated, a taller pinion is necessary. But getting all 4 hands to mount and sit correctly will be a challenge. I've done it on a cartel case that came with an Asian 2836, so I think it is doable. But it will take patience, and trial and error to get it lined up.
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I couldn't do a 'birth year' GMT at all
(even a 6542), but I did build a 1675 Cornino that would be a 'Lost My Virginity Year' 
. I went by RolexAddict's advice. Used the cartel 1655 case. Gary Clark's bezel, insert and crystal. A genuine 5.3mm crown. Hands and caseback from Rafflestime. The dial is homemade, and is scheduled to be redone/updated later this year after a couple of other projects.
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Looks great!
For the pearl I've used the drop of 5 minute epoxy with a touch of lume underneath. The natural color is amber. It really turns out nice.
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For at least 12 hours prior to installation, more depending on the individual, do not, under any circumstances, consume beer and chilli.
Ultimate Rolex Mercedes Hands Comparison
in The Rolex Area
Posted
Great work!
I believe that the chapter ring itself measures 26mm in diameter on chapter ring dials. For our purposes, Gen or aftermarket outside diameter of the dial itself doesn't matter to hand size. Only the chapter ring size does.
On the early GMT and Submariners, a 13mm minute hand was used. That put the tip of the minute hand right to the chapter ring. The small arrow GMT hand used on 6542 and 1675 chapter ring dials also measured 13mm, and the tip met the chapter ring. Helenarou is the only source I know of for an ETA 13mm minute hand.