JoeyB
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Posts posted by JoeyB
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Thanks cartel 1655 sounds interesting as then I know I have a working movement, I guess the issue then is finding an eta sized vintage handset... I will hunt out JoeyB, he us the bezel guy right? :-)
I hope so!
The 1655 cartel case with the crown guards ground down is acceptable. That's the one in my signature. It has the gen style crystal/bezel mount, so it will take any of the after market bezels. It is the easiest 6542 in my opinion. You order it with the movement you want, refinish/change the dial (I use the water-slide decal to refinish), add the red/black date wheel overlay. It all fits as it came from the factory, so less modifying is needed.
To my eye the Tiger 2 case has a better shape. Less modding to the case, will take ETA 28xx or DG3804b with no additional modding, but it does need the larger diameter dial. I'm in the middle of this build as we speak, and had planned a write-up next week sometime, along with an announcement. I now have the coin edge bezel and retainer to compliment the insert, all to gen spec and all made in the U.S.A. I hope to be ready to supply them by the middle of next week, take pics, etc.
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I believe that over 50+years the exposed part of the plate that is 'gilt' oxidizes. The white is 'normal' oxidation.
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My 1675 was built using Gary Clark's crystal and bezel and insert. If fit together correctly leaving the friction ring off. The bezel turns as gen by slight downward press and turn. Gary is a great guy, honest and fair.
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To service a automatic movement, whichever model it is will cost at least twice as much as putting in a new DG3804
Unless you can service it yourself.Yep. As I've said a few times before, the way to service a DG movement is to remove it from the case. Lay it on the workbench. Hit it with a 40oz hammer.
Brush what is left into the trash can. And install a brand new movement for under $30usd. 
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A word of advice, get a decent size clear bag to put your hands and the movement inside until you know the calendar jumper spring (it's a tiny 'U' shaped piece of wire) is safe. 99% of the times I have done this operation the spring lets loose and you won't even hear it hit the floor it's so light. It will save you hours on your hands and knees
Good luck!
That spring can travel at speeds breaking the sound barrier. I've heard it, but never found it afterward!
automatico Posted Today, 09:00 AMThe U shaped calendar spring goes in after the plate is installed...it goes in through the cutout in the plate. Be sure to put it back in the same way it came out as iirc one end of the spring is longer.
I use a piece of Scotch tape to hold the u-shaped spring and be able to see through to install it in the slot. Line it up, slide it in off the tape. If you miss, it doesn't fly away.
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There are quite a few threads on the 6538. The 'Search' function is your friend. Here is one, and there are links in th thread for others. http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/156906-b/
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Well done!
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Joey, I gave up on trying to drill out regular end-links a couple years ago. I would twist the tubes off on probably 4 out of 5 and that was using 4 different bits to gradually increase the opening. I even bought a tapered 2mm reamer and that didn't do any better.
Well thank you! All this time I thought it was just me. I don't have your expertise so I never had a chance. I even tried to solder, weld, epoxy, chewing gum in replacement tubing with no luck at all. It still makes no sense to me why the rep companies will not make the lug holes the right size and use the right sized springbars and end links.
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JMB, it looks great, and good to know about the end links. I've destroyed a few trying to open them up to make the spring bars fit. Thanks.
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The way this bezel is shaped as far as the insert "pocket" I'm pretty sure it was designed for one of the cheapo stamped sheet-metal inserts and a flat bottomed insert would not even start to set in. The insert that had been on it was a little smaller in ID and had been glued with "gusto." I machined off a little of the bezel and got it to set down a little but was afraid if I went much further I would be getting into the groove where the spring lives and I didn't want to go there!
What needs to be "salvaged" as far as the insert is concerned?
Yep, I've run into that before. With the Silix case, the glue in crystal set-up, the bezel seat AND the crystal mount 'walls' had to be flattened out. And the 'Tiger 2' case bezel is cut cone shaped for the metal insert. It is so small I couldn't get a tool on it to flatten it out. It was a real pain for me not having your skills.
I can't tell for certain from the pictures, but I might be able to 'refinish' the ruined insert and make it usable.
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freddy333 is the 'master', I just try to keep up.
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...which he described as a mess (mainly due to my attempt to glue in JoeyBs insert) (the glue had partially eaten away the old insert)
The 6542 insert should be installed using either double-faced tape (like golf club grip tape) or, as freddy333 said in his first build, RTV silicone adhesive. I've used both, neither harms the painted backing. The tape will add some thickness, so if the bezel you are using isn't deep enough the insert might sit up too high. On my own watches all, lexan and metal, are installed using black RTV.
Send me a pic, and maybe I can salvage the insert.
freddy333, if you have new method please let us know.
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Well done!
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It's probably the nicest rep I got from my days of buying reps in China Town NYC.
what movement should I replace it with?
Where is the best place to get movements?
is a friction ball good enough to remove the back and put it back on properly? Or should I invest in some proper case openers?
Any other help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
You need to know what movement you have. If it is a cheap rep then it likely has a Chinese movement.
If it is a Chinese movement, the you'd be best advised to get a Chinese DG3804b. They are good movements now, and would be a direct replacement, dial hands, date wheel, movement ring, and all. I use the DG3804b often in builds, as does RolexAddict in most of his builds.
Most suppliers have Chinese movements now. Otto Frei, Jules Borel, Rafflestime, are just a few. Should be around $25usd.
All I have and use is a friction ball. Never failed yet.
Other help or guidance? I'd make that green GMT hand red or all maybe all silver. Some acetone on a q-tip will remove the paint and not harm the plating. It really clashes with the blue to my eye.
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Thank you all!
Yes, they are soldered. I use a low temp solder paste for jewelry from Otto Frei. I recommend practicing on scrapable hands. My first attempts a few years back ended up in a flaming ball of mush.
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Very nice. Can you give more details on the hour and second hands, where they came from/how you made them please.
Both are pieced together, the second hand from 2 other 'regular' hands. The hour hand was made using a rep Rolex 'maxi' hand pieced to a miscellaneous ETA sized 'base'. Both finished by very gently sanding using 1500 grit paper.
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Gorgeous!! Now send it to me and I promise I'll produce a good photo, some time in the next 10 years or so.
OK, here is the tracking number: I81U812
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I take terrible pics, but the watch turned out so good I had to share. I replaced the hands on my 6204 to be as gen. The minute hand is 13mm from Helearou, and I made the hour hand longer to 9.5mm. Looking straight on both the minute hand and the second hand go right to the chapter ring (not past it.- bad angle in my pic).
I removed the silver plating using 400 grit sandpaper, then smoothing using 1500 grit. All in one direction - not back and forth, that bends hands. Judging from the pictures of old Subs, I think the 'gilt' hands were actually brass. That makes sense for a diver's watch. So brass they are.
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The minute hand for the early chapter ring Rolex GMT and Submariner measure 13mm from center hole to tip. That'd be the 6200, 6204, 6205, 6542, etc.
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For those looking for the longer minute hand for the no crown, coin edge Rolex GMT 6542 and Submariner 6538, Helenarou has them in gold finish on their site. The minute hand measures 13mm from center of the pinion hole to the tip, versus the standard minute hand measuring 12mm.
http://www.helenarou.com/6538-gold-bond39s--benz-watch-hand-super-luminova-for65383928242836.html
They now have these in silver as well. Not on site yet, but email them. Mention you are a member of RWG.
rouhelena@yahoo.com
The ETA silver just get done!
Hr center hole to tip 8
min center hole to tip 13
sec center hole to tip 13 -
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Thanks. Yes, you lume over the clear coat. I use an acrylic 'Glow Paint'. I tint it using a water based kid's coloring set. It is the same type that RolexAddict uses. It gives a grainy look when dry, is not a strong glow, nor lasts long, probably much like a 60 year old gen would. The grainy look in my inserts is directly due to that Glow Paint.
Me and my old eyes can do an OK job, but younger and steadier can do even better. I must have looked at thousands of pics of gilt dials, but never have seen a gen in person. But from what I've seen, the lume on the gen is not at all perfect, and the brass that shows through the pad paint or decal was bright and 'gilty' when it was new. I believe that the more subdued gilt, and even with some white showing, are all from aging.
Here is a lume shot pic from panerai's watch that he took. It gives an idea of the strength of the lume.
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Right, because the "gilt" is just the base plate showing through, it's impossible to recreate unless done right. Printing gilt colour on a dial is great but not correct
I can't take pics like cc33, but my 6538 might show how I make my dials using water-slide decals. Inkjet does not print white, so I use clear decal paper and apply it to the bare brass base plate. I usually swirl sand it lightly using 400 grit to get a more 'gilt' look of the plate that shows through. And it does become slowly subdued as time goes on. All my gilt dials are made the same way. Only one, my 1675, using a gen Rolex Submariner dial bought off ebay for $25 bucks that was trashed. The finish can be as smooth as you can spray paint clear, or a bit of patina by 'orange peel' the spray. The more I mess up, the more aged it looks!
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Maybe if it was made using lexan...
Vintage madness is there any hope for me?
in The Rolex Area
Posted
Nope. It gets worse. Rolex is infamous for not revealing, or not having, records of their vintage watches. They made changes from introduction through production, and made changes when serviced. The watches were more hand made than today, so they all have little imperfections making each unique. Add the aging and wear of 60 years and each is even more unique. And that helps when building a replica. There is even a debate of which Submariner was the first. The 6200 has the lowest number, but the 6204 was introduced to the public first. There was no apparent rhyme nor reason for model numbers. The first GMT was introduced at the same time with the 'bakelite' insert. But within a few years they found the lume could be radioactive, so they eliminated the bakelite, and when serviced swapped out the dial (lume) and insert for non-radio active ones. Later ones also had the small GMT 4th hand swapped out for the larger one.
Building a quality vintage replica can range all the way to freddy333's all genuine (genuine JoeyB insert) white dial 6542. But there are a few cases that have the basic shape needed, and with a little talent you can build a very close replica. My first build was a 6542 based on the first known 6542 build that freddy333 did. RolexAddict introduced me to the vintage 1675, but when I came to this site freddy333 was in the midst of building the 6542. I was hooked. I had to have one. Since then replica cases have changed to use the gen style mount for crystal and bezel. So I'm in the middle of rebuilding my first with an updated case and some other improvements that have come along.
I came to the forums years ago looking for a quality 16710 with a Swiss movement. The forums saved me from buying from a scam site for over $1000. That's all I wanted. Shortly after came the 116710. That was it, all I wanted, really. Then came RolexAddict. And freddy333. And RWG. The 16710 has been re-cased using gen style bezel/crystal mount.
freddy333 posted a link to this site http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.com/ Visit at your own risk. It's where I saw the 6204 'Sub Aqua' and had to have that!
After I finish the 6542, again, I might re-case my 6204. It is great as is. I don't know why I do these things...
...but I know I can stop any time I like. 'Hello. My name is JoeyB, and I am a watchoholic...