sssurfer

The 'Asian 21J' movement in question for power reserve reps IS the Seagull ST-25...

While the movement posted by 2005submariner is no doubt a Seagull ST-25, mog started this thread asking about the Asian 21J. And the movement usually called 'Asian 21J' IS actually used on power reserve reps, as you can see from these pics of my (TTK's) 027 movement:

You are naturally free to call 'Asian 21J' any movement you like, but this won't help in avoiding possible misunderstandings.

And in facts, as I already suggested, we were talking about different movements.

Folks, please remember that themuck did not ask for your favourite most accurate replica, but for the most accurate replica out-of-the-box.

If anyone is able to list one single flaw in the PAM 050, I'll be more than happy to seal my mouth and disappear into the darkness.

(yes, this is a provocation )

Welcome!

To my knowledge the 2892-A2 does noes not have a power reserve function by default. The power reserve function is added to the movement by installing a soprod power reserve module.

The 2892-A2 is a 2892 with the added PR module. Therefore, the 2892-A2 is PR by definition.

PAM 050 (w/asian 7750) hands down.

Yes -- that's it.

I'm afraid we are speaking of different movements.

The Asian 21J is actually a copy of the Miyota 8215, not of the ETA 2893.

And the ETA 2893 is not a PR movement, but a GMT movement.

His PR brother is the 2892-A2.

And how about the 'certifiDato' guarantee card?

Welcome new PAM fellow!

You have come to a place where spending lots of money is so easy -- but where you get what you paid for, as well.

I have a few Asian power reserve models, VC, Pam, etc.

Have all been reliable.

As the watch is wound, either by crown or motion, the indicator goes up telling you it has the relative indicated reserve power.

Same here.

Just, it may happen that the power reserve gauge on the dial does not perfectly fit the actual power reserve of the movement: you may run out of power when the power indicator still points at 10 (or even 15) hours.

This is due to the need for a close-with-gen dial, not to a flaw or fault in the 21J PR module.

Not a great issue, though: once you are aware of it, you also know how to behave with it.

Thanks for the link, offshore!

Besides of warnings, it contains some new useful suggestions too.

You can't wear the box, let alone the papers. And even if I were showing a watch off, it would not involve the box or any papers.

To me, wearing a watch is not the only -- or even main -- reason why I buy it.

Let alone showing it off.

..

Great first post - an improvement to "Who has the best Sub?"

And with lots of colors and special effects, too!...

Out of joke: paintinc56, also do a search for The Zigmeisterzumba (Canada located though) and rbj69, then take your decision.

Is it harder than rep saphire glass? You mean that mineral glass treated like this can be harder than saphire?

IMHO that, contrarily on what some dealers say , there's nothing like 'saphire glass' -- either it is saphire, or it is glass. And rep saphire is as good as any other saphire.

I never suggested that this glass is harder than saphire: I have actually been able to scratch it with hard metal (what I could have not done if it was true saphire).

Still, I have to admit it is really hard. Not bad at all.

Jimmy has always shipped from China..

Good to know. But in this case I wonder why items are declared as located in California too:

Well to be honest looks quite similar to the rep saphire glasses I have.. It seems strange that they say it won't fit..

That makes me even more thinking that something has changed.

Anyway I can assure you that this glass is harder to get scratched (and a better heat transmitter) than usual rep glass.

Disappointed that it won't fit our cases, but since I only paid $15 for it no big deal

$15 for a glass having those features is a good deal. I would just prefer it was not advertised as sapphire.

Really would it fit only JF cases? The one I got is quite standard size, 35.5mm diameter.

So if those crystals are glass someone should tell him. He may not know.

Just told him, Warren, in a polite way (I hope, with my poor English).

Here is what I told him:

Hi, I received the item, but I have to admit I strongly doubt it is sapphire.

Electrical resistance, thermal conductivity, and physical features of its surface tell it is mineral glass with high metal (possibly iron) percentage and a good anti-scratch treatment.

I am a member of several watch forums where you are highly reputed, so I suppose it's your provider that passed these crystals off as sapphire to you (by chance, did you change your provider, or are these crystals from a recent stock while others weren't?)

Do you plan to do anything about it?

Thanks,

xxxxx xxxxxx

Did the water test myself now.. It seems that they are not saphire but I cannot believe Jimmy is lying..

I can try three guesses (with the first two not excluding each other):

1. Jimmy had his crystals sold out before his CGs, cases, and bezels, and, in order to provide complete or almost complete sets, he ordered new crystals from another manufacturer.

As a matter of fact, these crystals are selling much cheaper than before; and they come directly from China, while I believed Jimmy was shipping from US.

2. Jimmy is simply unaware of it all.

3. That actual ebayer is not Jimmy anymore, but someone else.

Ok, I also performed the water drop test and the scratch test.

Water flooded exactly like on glass.

Scratching the crystal was quite hard to perform, but in the end I got a microscopic scratch visible on a 5x loupe.

All these results are consistent with mineral glass with a high metal (possibly iron) percentage and a good anti-scratch treatment.

In the end: top-quality glass, performing almost as sapphire, but not sapphire.

That is also consistent with its price (auction starting price @15 USD, usually sold around 25 USD).

I just asked Jimmy about it.

It might even be possible that Bob sent chieftang wrong stems...

awesome suggestions thanks. Thing is that I do not want to have the 7750 movement, and it has to be 44mm. Main reason I started liking the PAMs is because of its size.

Also I would prefer the 21J movement since it is much cheaper and seems to be pretty reliable.

Will the 090 be able to fool people? I mean how obvious is that date adjusting thingy (no idea what it is obviously)? Thanks. Keep the suggestions coming.

That date adjusting thingy is a small, flat button (called a pusher) on the left side of the watch. No gen has it, and it is spottable from 3 meters away.

Also the 21J 104 from Joshua is quite good. I have it on my wrist right now, it is my daily beater and I am very pleased with it.

But if you want it accurate you need to replace the crown, and to get one of the new forecoming chieftang's 7mm cyclopses to increase date magnification.

The inscription on the caseback are not consistent with the model (especially, no 'divers professional' in the gen), but your friends are not supposed to know, are they?

Crystal is glass, not sapphire, so you might also want to replace it with an AR coated sapphire.

On the other hand, the lume and overall dial look are very very good.

Asian 21J is a solid movement (and I love it), but it also is inexpensive so it goes with inexpensive replicas, and inexpensive replicas are rarely accurate without modding...

I am not too cencerned with the PR. I just want an auto Panerai with a sweeping seconds hand. Any suggestions on a closer one to the gen that is also an auto?

If you are OK with 40mm models, to me your best option is this 050 from Joshua. It is already perfect right out of the box, no need to modifiy anything like crown, date, cyclops or so. Even the numbers on the back are correct. Even experts would have troubles in telling it from the genuine without opening it.

My 2nd choice is its bigger (44mm) brother, this 104 also from Joshua.

But in this case if you want it perfect you need to replace the crown (even if I strongly doubt that your friends can call it out if they are not Paneristi or rep nuts like us).

Edit: I removed my suggestions for the 111 as I just recalled you are interested on autos.

Well, that is one of the funniest things I've read these times!

Well, that is one of the funniest things I've read these times!

If what you especially want is the closeness with the gen, the 090 is not the best way to go. The date-change pusher on a side (which all PR asian 21J have) is a giveout on closeness. And, in case, be sure to get a model with solid (not see-through) caseback.

If, on the contrary, you want a solid, nice looking watch with the added bonus of PR (which I greatly appreciate as my favourite complication), without spending a fortune on a 2892-A2 model, then the 090 is a good choice.

But in this case you might also want to consider the 027.

About AR coating, it is quite expensive. Check the posts by Finepics (for EU based AR) and chieftang (US based).

No need - if there is a demand, the Chinese will copy this in ten minutes.

With a minor flaw that will need mod...

Color is the same (C3), but you can get different degrees of brightness depending on how many hands (layers) of lume you apply, and especially on how much the glowing pigment is diluted into the medium.

Btw, maybe there are only two degrees of brightness: hands and dial -- and the difference in brightness between the larger hands and the small hand is just due to the different size.