TJGladeRaider

It is what it was adverised as being. It is also a miserable POS - I should know, I have two. Don't let it get wet. Neither of mine will survive a dash from the house to the car on a humid day. BTW - I sent one to Ziggy and he sent it back. I'll not put words in his mouth (even if they came out of it) so I'll let him tell you what a fine piece this is if he is so inclined. Bill

Well Hi there. While this hilarious little spoof has implicated no offense cognizable under the United States Code that I can visualize thus far, I'd be cautious if I were you. Bill

That was FABULOUS! A classic that may outlive the Nanuq Rolex story in the minds of members! Bill

You're new. You have a very low post count. I suppose that some allwances should be made. On the other hand, I wish that comment had been made by someone I could appropriately respond to. If you intend to remain here and bless us with this sort of [censored] Scottie, do us all a favor and beam yourself back from whence you came. That was COMPLETELY out of line, and if you do getted bounced over it, you damn sure earned it in my view. Bill

While I welcome your opinion, and I agree that the death of this entire collection of threads is long overdue, conversations generally die when the people involved have nothing further to say. To assert that this thread should be closed because "what seems fair to you should finish it off" seems wildly presumptuous to me. We don't generally do that around here without a compelling reason. Bill

I think I have King identified but I guess that's not fair - I'm a detective. LOL Bill

Now that is freakin priceless! Years ago, with my first child, before I really understood the way things are these days, I was at a PTA meeting and Jeremy's teacher was telling me what a wonderfully well behaved child he was. In my best native Appalachian, I said, "A course he is, I got me a field trainin collar at home, an if'n he acts up, I ken light his little eyes up frum across da room." The poor woman looked like she was going to come unglued. I'd have probably gotten arrested if my ex-wife hadn't piped up. Bill

Good thing that child isn't an RT supporter; now that would be frightening! I bet Pug could add some convincing fangs and make a poster fit to print! What a GREAT pic! Bill

Perhaps. If so, I dread the unmerciful asswhipping I shall endure at the hands of your supporters. Bill

And then again, there are days when I remember why I have enjoyed this place so much! LOL Bill

You amaze me Richard, I just love that care and concern you evince for your fellow man. You have evidently read thru a list of commentaries proffered by the kind of people who have made this list worth visiting, yet you have the temerity to label it a "group hug," and explain why you feel it necessary to go right on with the same tired trash. OK, you want the solution - I'll give it to you. It's simple, and it has been right here all along, but I know it isn't what people like you want, which is why I am so damn fed up with this. What do YOU have to complain about Richard? I really don't need, or want, to hear your take - or anyone else's - on what a lowlife this dealer is, or that dealer was, unless they screwed YOU. We have a dealer review section. Anyone who has a claim can explain their side, they have the soap box, and we read what is written there. When a person states a legitimate [censored], they get support, and when the members support somoeone's grievance, it generall gets appropriately resolved. But, as many of those paying attention have observed, a review of that section suggests that the dealers you are whining about are about as popular as they have always been. Righting wrongs is not what you really want is it Richard? You want to be a player, you want to be a wheel, you try to organize this and that, with no particular success that I can see, because the truth is, nobody like me is ever going to buy into one of your group leverage schemes - I'm a grown man, I understand how things work, and I begrudge nobody who supplies value and service a profit. Joshua and Andrew did not create their reputations overnight. They became a dominant force on these boards because they EARNED it, and they EARNED it by delivering a quality product at a reasonable price, and going the last mile to help their customers, day after day, month after month, for a long time before you got here. I am proud to see that I am not the only one determined to see that we remember that. Now, I find myself conflicted when I see a well meaning people complaining about "cartels," because they are not fully aware of all that has gone on. Once upon a time, popular dealers we all treated as our friends sold fantastic quality reps here at reasonable prices, competing with one another while remaining friends with each other, and with us. As with most things "gentlemanly," there were unwritten rules. Then came the greedy little trolls who saw a good thing, and in their youth and ignorance thought they could make it a great thing by hustling one friend against the other, and leveraging the best possible price, wringing the last possible drop of profit from our golden geese. I told you then, and I remind you now, what an asinine thing your effort at price control was, but your position was basically, "business is business." How's that workin for ya Richard? The geese got tired of it. Those same dealers got together and said enough is enough - just as any person in business would do, they protected their profit margins. We are here playing, this is a hobby for us, but those guys are in business trying to live and provide for their families. Guess what kid, you were so right, "business is business," and when ignorant children try to play hard ball with adults they get the bat shoved up their ass. Now, in my view, what we have here is an effort to trash the icons of this industry, people who have been good to us, and fair with us for a very long time. From their perspective, once greedy little people came along and offered US an opportunity, WE TURNED ON THEM. I didn't go for it, most of us didn't, but what I did not do, and the rest of us did not do, was demand compliance with unwritten rules, come to their defense loudly enough, and [censored] slap greedy foolish children into silence. I am sorry to say that their most recent behavior has not been entirely above board, but I'm not going to sit here quietly and allow self-serving mutts to blow this out of proportion, and put this chicken before the egg, either. You want to say they misrepresented a watch or two - OK, fine. You want to say they outright lied a time or two, I don't know that I can defend that either, but this didn't happen in a vacuum Richard. There is another side to that same coin - and I mention this because I don't want people to think I am pointing an accusing finger at Pugwash. I am not. He did what he did because we (and by that I point an accusing finger at myself and so many of us) became so defensive of our pet dealers that they could screw a noob (or most anyone else) with impunity - Pugwash spoke up because WE allowed this to reach the point that those who should have dared not. This isn't my board, I don't define the rules for this forum, but we do get to vote and express ourselves. I say, it's time for the Admin to shut this crap down and require that the members of this forum follow the WRITTEN rules, with certain new provisos. 1. If YOU have a complaint, voice it, you owe it to yourself and the rest of us. Tell us what YOUR dealer did to YOU regarding YOUR watch. Tell it politely as you would present it to the court of peer opinion, and give us an opportunity to fix it. 2. Everyone should read every complaint and judge it on its merits - no matter who the dealer is. If their complaint bespeaks a lack of understanding about reps, a polite explanation will suffice. Abusive, demeaning responses should be dealt with as a serious matter. 3. If a complaint appears to have merit, the forum should REQUIRE a reply. If required, the refusal to respond should mean no dealer privileges. 4. If the complaint OBVIOUSLY has SERIOUS merit, but the dealer chooses to remain an ass in the face of group opinion, the forum administrator should deal with it, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, neither the forum, nor the administrator should be expected to resolve all issues - it is not always going to be clear who is right, but let's not miss the forest for the trees. Some wrongs may not be righted if the facts are not clear, but keep in mind cumulative effect . . . a battery of unclear "he said, she said," complaints,m creates enough smoke to tell us where the fires are. 5. If YOU do not have a complaint, STFU. That's my .02, humbly submitted for whatever it is worth. Bill

That's no joke, but I am glad to hear that I misunderstood. It's bad enough having someone do things that you couldn't begin to do yourself, but thinking they can do it blindfolded, standing on their head, while shuffling cards with their toes just makes it worse. Bill

Are you telling me that you can relume five MBWs and change the crowns/tubes in an afternoon?!?! Although I have made this point time and again elsewhere, I don't care if you can do it in five minutes with a twitch of your nose, payment for value received is worth the same to me no matter what your costs or time invested -- I just want to be clear in my mind that I understand you. I could easily imagine you swapping the crowns and tubes in a day as I could probably do that myself - I just cannot get the job done to where they function so smoothly as you do. The lume job completely baffles me. I have examined your work under a loop, and I see what you've done, but even if I could apply that stuff that precisely, the effort to do one watch would wear me out for the day. BTW, you may have noticed that I posted some time ago that the DRSD you did for me was keeping impossibly perfect time. This reminded me to check the atomic clock. The MBW DRSD is now 4 secs fast since whatever day it was that I posted that. I look forward to getting my watches back. Those who like the no-glow vintagized look are surely entitled to like what they like, but I absolutely love the way these things come out - and my boat is almost repaired! Ciao, Bill

Yes, I am sure you need a break, if for no other reason than I want your hands nice and steady as you relume that new stack of MBWs I just sent you! Lord, you do wonderful work. Bill

I have really enjoyed this peculiar hobby, and I have enjoyed the people involved, some of whom I have met and liked a lot. Unfortunately, I feel that something is changing. there is a profound shift in attitudes within the group, it is hard to put my finger on, but the environment feels much different. I don't know what it is, or why, but I am not enjoying this like I used to. I see legions of complaints directed at dealers I have done a lot of business with - people who have always enjoyed the very best of reputations. I don't understand why, and it is especially odd to me as most of those who do appear to have done business with these people seem to be as happy as they have always been. I do not suggest that the complaints have had no merit - we all know better than that. At what point though is enough, enough? Is it appropriate to keep beating the dead horse forever? I will concede that I might . . . but only if it was my horse. Why do people continue to lament long dead issues, that they were not the victim of? Further, I am considerably less troubled by content than by form. I do not speak Chinese, or any other foreign language, and I do not begin to understand Asian culture other than to have a vague belief that their culture is significantly different than my own. When I see Asian people who have managed to master my language, and seem to understand my culture, I respect and appreciate that. If I had accomplished that in my life, I would feel proud of myself, and justifiably so I should think. When I see such a person make a good faith, gentlemanly effort to respond to the issues and concerns raised by forum members, I respect that too, but when I see an apparently honest effort to engage in rational discourse met with vulgar profanity and abuse, what I see through their eyes makes me ashamed. I admit to being plain spoken, and I can be as profane and abusive as anyone under the right circumstances, but I cannot abide that. Perhaps the general problem could be ameliorated by merely changing the forum name to Counterfeit Watch Group. It seems that many of the new, strident voices we are hearing so much from of late have lost sight of the fact that, while what most of us are doing is legal (depending upon where we are), what the dealers are doing is not. This, "I want," "I expect," "I demand," but, "Hey, don't come crying to me about your problems and issues," mentality that seems to be taking over bespeaks an unreasonable immaturity that makes me uncomfortable. To those people, I would just say, "Stand by boys and girls, unless I am very much mistaken, things are going to get worse - much worse." When reps were cheap fake obvious imitations, that was one thing. When some sources had good quality reps, but the norm was cheap junk, that was another. The proliferation of truly excellent reps these days is a threat to the existence of the gen manufacturers, the nuisance has become deadly, and I do not expect them to tolerate that, and dealing with it is a matter of money. Money buys lobbyists, lobbyists buy votes, votes buy political power and political power can force or buy concessions. Give the Chinese something they want, and the world's largest supplier of reps will evaporate overnight. Finally, while I know my comments will be taken as being defensive of one "side" over the other, that is not the case. I merely wish to speak for my side, from my perspective, and address the issues that trouble me. I am not young, I have seen a lot of life, and I have observed a lot of human nature. Consequently, I don't expect much, but I have seen some real class, character and integrity around here from people I have enjoyed getting to know. I hope that we can one day get back to that. Bill

I am not sure how that video streaming thing is possible, but I watched the whole thing. I can see why some would take exception to certain parts of it, but it's a movie, not a historical documentary, so I think a little artistic latitude is OK. Even so, I thought the movie stuck to the facts much better than many movies that claim to be historical. I wonder, does anyoine else remember the original of this movie? That must have been from the 60's. It was one of the best flicks that I recall from those days. Anyway, thanks for the links. Bill

Ya know, I must march to a different drummer than most of you guys, but I find myself once again hearing a different beat. My answer would be, "No, I would not have rented a watch before I got involved with reps, but now that I have, I certainly see why someone should. Think about it - how many reps have you bought that ultimnately wound up collecting dust? I have bought so many watches that I thought I would like, only to find that they just get no wrist time, I couldn't even begin to count them. In fact, if there were no such thing as reps, renting a prospective purchase seems like the only rational option. For example, there are no "rep" cars. To me, it would make perfect sense to rent a car for a week if I was planning to buy one like it. Better to spend a few bucks to wear a watch for a week than to spend a few thousand on a watch that you'l only wear for a week. Bill

That could be it. I do take the watch off when I go to bed. I'm going to pay close attention and check it again after a few days. It sure was a shock to go to set it and find it was dead on. Bill

I've got a much easier way. Box the watches carefully Send to Ziggy insured and with tracking Pay Ziggy Receive the Re-Lumed watches Mine are coming out absolutely perfect that way . . . and I'll have my boat fixed this coming week! What could be easier than that? Bill

Oh I thought I did. The little puke didn't understand that I was seriously willing to kick the living [censored] out of him over that script. Once I was on his side of the counter, he could hear me better. The thing that amazed me was the fact that he didn't call the cops. I suspect that either he had no right to hold the script, or someone in management realized how that would look in the news. You ever see that movie "fight club?" The part of the movie where they all decided to introduce people to the glory of a good punch-up by picking fights with total strangers (that they would deliberately lose) was the most insightful thing I have seen in a movie -- ever. It's the same thing at a lot of homicide scenes. It's classic - Two guys, often in a bar, get into an argument. One guy gets mad, and the other doesn't understand that things are really serious until he's dead. My apologies for hijacking the thread. Bill

I think sellers should ask whatever a buyer is willing to pay. Bill

Absolutely -- Hand Down! I got the version of this watch that was available in the 70's as a gift when I graduated from High School. It has more hours under water than most Scuba Instructors, it always kept good time and it never leaked. My oldest son has it put away - he wears a Pam rep and a TW Best SD rep as his regular watches. The only down side to these watches that I know if is that you cannot hand wind them. Bill

I have been wearing a vintage Rollie DRSD since I got it back with Ziggy Lume. Since I have been wearing it, I have not had to set it since the date flipped to March 1 - three weeks ago. I just went to the US Official Time site to set the watch, and I was amazed to find it dead on - I mean to the exact second. Now I know that nobody's mechanical watch keeps perfect time - including this one as I check them all when I first get them and I have never had one be spot on after a couple of days. My MBWs all seem to keep time within +/- 5 secs per day, so dead on after three weeks isn't plausible. So my question is, how is this possible? One possibility that occurs to me is that I could have set it to the wrong time to begin with - say 2:13 when it was actially 2:14. That would account for a steady loss of about 2.5 secs per day which is believable, if it just happened that the second hand was spot on when rechecked as a coincidence. Another possibility is, I may have reset the watch since I got it back from Ziggy - I suspect that most of us reset our watches as a matter of habit, so the fact that I don't remember doing so doesn't really mean much. If I reset it a week and a half ago but set it to the wrong minute, that would account for a steadly loss of 5 secs per day which is very normal for these things. Again, allowing for the seconds hand being did on as mere coincidence. Otherwise, I see only two possibilities: 1. The watch gains time sometimes and and loses time other times, in this case having preceisely balanced out. 2. The watch neither gains nor loses at all - and nobody needs to tell me how unlikely that is. Any other possibilities? Bill

LOLLLLLLL -- Funny, off topic story A year ago, my current wife had her first baby and it was a Cesarean ordeal. Our OB Dr. is the same OB that delivered my other four so I know him pretty well and I have his home phone number (relevant later). After discharge, I took her home and took a hand ful of prescriptions to my closest Walgreens to fill - It's the same place I have had prescriptions filled for ten years or better which is also relevant later. The Pharmacist was a little guy (from India I think) and I could hear him having an argument with some customers as I gave his assistant the scripts. Some lady was obviously very [censored] off - but I left the scripts which would be ready within an hour. I came back, and was paid for the batch of meds, but noticed that I only had four things whereas I had expected five. The assistant went back to the box the put meds in and verified that she hadn't missed anything while I examined the meds she gave me. She returned to assure me that I got all there was, but by that time I had determined that the pain pills were missing. She went to ask the Pharmacist. Arrogant little [censored] Pharmacist [enter stage left] He came over with the script in hand saying he could not fill it because it was for a narcotic and the Dr. had not completely filled it out - all he put on it was her name (I have a very uncommon last name). I still had the release papers with me that explained the post cesarean cautions which I showed him and pointed out that it would be malprictice to send someone home after that kind of surgery with no pain meds - I suggested he give me the script and I'd fill in the information he needed. No way. I said fine, let's call the Doc and he'll verify that everything is OK He said it was too late - after hours I said call him at home - he said they didn't have a list of home phone numbers I told him that I had the number - he said he couldn't use a number I provided By now . . . and you gotta remember that after four kids, I have just been thru my first really difficult birth experience and my little wifey is at home waiting in pain for these meds that I had been waiting an hour for . . . Bill was getting a little bit [censored] off. I told him, with all the calm I could muster, "OK, just give me the script and I'll deal with this" He said, "No." By this time there are a bunch of people backed up, all of whom are very keen to see how this little drama plays out, and I am trying very, very hard not to lose my temper with this little fookwit. I said, "Fill it, or give it back, but my wife needs thos pills and I am not leaving without one or the other." [censored] said, in an arrogant, patronizing way that just crawled all over me, "This is a defective prescription and I am not going to give it back to you." Now, remembering that he has at least ten years worth of pharmacy records at his finger tips, and all our information (the very information that was not on the script) is right there, how fooking ridiculous is this - especially since he had just filled a prescription for a brand new member of our family, and knowing that no doctor is going to send a woman home after a C-Section with no pain meds. I am not a, "They all look alike" kind of guy. I know the difference between a Hindu Indian, and a Muslim Iraqi, but that didn't keep me from "shock and aweing" his little ass. Anyway, your "ride across the counter" comment reminded my why I no longer deal with Walgreens. Bill

I have been having some similar issues lately. It's very odd as I have bought a lot of MBWs thru him, and he has always replied to e-mails immediately in the past. Bill