kramerica2

Thanks a lot. Very useful info on a subject that is less known around here. BTW I wouldn't pin the subject so early, i almost didn't notice it at all.. most ppl just scroll down automatically when they browse the forum.

I think that it's also a matter of how much more would it cost to fix a non-serviced movement compared to servicing a working movement. By cost I mean money, time and effort. Let's assume that you want to keep the watch for at least 5 years. So, taking preventing measures you would pay the money and hassle no matter what, and probably enjoy it for the 5 years. Still, you have a chance, let's say 10%, that you would have some problems that you would have to fix. Taking the risk route would mean that you do nothing until something is wrong. Let's say that there is a 70% chance that it would happen considering the poor QC and assembly conditions. Now, X is how much that a preventive service would cost, and Y is how much that fixing a non serviced movement would cost. Preventive route cost: X + 0.1*Y (10% probability that something would go wrong after service). Risk route cost: 0.7*Y + 0.1*Y = 0.8*Y Now, obviously I made some rough guesses here, and some would say that peace of mind is priceless.. But, at least for me, I'm probably in the ball park. So, if trying to calculate mathematically, it all comes down to how much would a fix (Y) cost compared to a regular service (X). Here, the experts could chime in. My hunch is that the difference isn't that big. The fixed costs are much greater than the variables, and are pretty much the same in both cases. According to my rough assumptions, only if fixing costs are more than 150% higher than regular servicing, than, financially, it would be wise to go the preventive route.

Once again, nature shows us all how small and fragile our lives are. Indeed a tragedy, and my hopes are for those who lost everything or something... We shouldn't forget that those kind of disasters happen in lesser fortunate parts of the world on a daily basis, and we never even hear about them.

Easy question. SOSF. It has nothing to admire from the technical POV (rep or gen), but IMO it's the best looking watch in the world. And I'm an Omega fan.

Ever since my earlier version of fish was stolen, I've waited for a decent rep to come out. About 2 months ago, I thought that it might never happen since the gen is no longer produced (stupid Breitling - took a beautiful watch and gave us ugly new versions of it), and I tried to get a gen at an AD. Luckily, I couldn't get one. Ever since the black one came out, I've waited for some decent pics of the rep (thanks snpr), and I'm extremely pleased with it. Ordered one from trusty today. BTW - Who's making decisions at Breitling? There isn't a single gen today that I actually like. They had such amazing looking watches, why did they feel the need to replace them with ugly looking pieces? BTW 2 - I know and accept the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.. and I do know that a lot of people like them, and I don't mean to insult them. It's only my personal opinion, and I'm probably the minority here, since Breitling probably did some homework before introducing the new watches. It just that it annoyed me so much, I'm a bit extreme on the subject. Wear your Breiltlings well...

maxman: For the most part I totally agree. At least 90% of the people I meet throughout the day don't even bother to check out my wrist. Like you, what matter to me most is how I feel about the watch, and what it means to me. Most people that see my Speedmaster, won't give it another look. It's simple looking (although stunning IMO), and only people that know their way around watches would recognize it. However, since like most watch fans, I can only afford a limited number of pieces for a limited price through my entire life. I must pick my watches carefully, and take into consideration many things. One of them, albeit in a low priority, is the brand image and recognition. There are 3 reasons why this has some (again, not much) importance to me: 1. A watch collection is kind of an investment. It's value down the road is very related to the brands that are part of that collection. 2. You never know when a rainy day might come, and you'd have to sell your watches. It would probably much easier to sell a Rolex or an Omega than a Seiko. 3. Well, despite everything that I said above, sometimes it's nice that people that don't know much about watches appreciate your watch. But again, like I said before, without any doubt, it's a great watch maker that is sadly very under-rated.

I meant a good and totally different brand name. Most people won't pay 60K$ for a Grand Toyota...

Seiko is indeed the most under-rated watch maker in the world. Their spring drive is probably the best movement for its price (and much more). Its an amazing combination between the beauty and soul of mechanical watches to the accuracy and reliability of quartz. However, when 95% of the watches they sell are cheap and simple <500$ quartz watches, who can blame us for overlooking them? It might sound stupid, but they really should have given a new brand name for their luxury watches (or the other way around). People pay 5-6K$ for Omega which is part of the Swatch group, but you won't expect them to pay the same price for a Swatch, even if it would be the same watch, just with a different logo and brand name, would you?

I'll start the day with my 2011-2012 grail recently accomplished:

Well, 6:15 AM here, first wrist shot of the day, classic:

If you don't wear it and don't even like it, than I would sell it, even if it's a present. They gave you a present for you to enjoy, and thats exactly what you got to do. However, I wouldn't sell it for reps. With the money you can buy a pre owned gen that you like, that way you can even trade it for another gen. That way, the present would still be remembered, and would be even better, since you're going to enjoy it much more.

Sure did. The same day I got the trusty's PO. Amazing piece. Will share more in a different post..

My PO from trusty arrived, best buying experience and fastest delivery I ever had in the business. All times are my local times. Feb. 18 (Saturday) - QC pics approved Feb. 21 11:20 AM - Picked up from Guangzhou, China Feb. 22 9:51 AM - Arrived at Alamaty, Kazahstan Feb. 22 1:29 PM - Arrived at Koeln, Germany Feb. 23 4:30 AM - Arrived at Athens, Greece Feb. 23 7:11 AM - Arrived at Tel Aviv, Israel Feb. 23 8:07 AM - Cleared customs Feb. 23 1:05 PM (Thursday) - Delivered! I believe that if QC pics were approved on a weekday, the process would have been even faster, but who can complain on such a smooth transaction? Let me start by saying that the watch is great. I'm still not referring to how well does it replicate its gen counter watch, but judging the rep as a watch. Its not new to you guys I'm sure, but it really is a top class watch. The overall feeling and quality of the watch by its own, is amazing. It's funny, when you look at gen watches for that price, you could never get that case material and quality, coupled with such a movement, sapphire crystal, AR treatment and even the basic lume for that price. So, even when judging the watch as a watch, it really is a great value for the price. That's really nice, but in the RWIS circles (Rep Watch Idiot Savant), we're not only interested about the watch itself, but how closely does it replicate the gen. While "gen-only" people, would mock and disrespect rep collectors, the truth is that for the most part we actually know a lot more about watches in general and luxury gens in particular then them. I would even say that we can appreciate and respect some gens that deserve it more than anybody that just buys them. So, as expected in a rep forum, I should also elaborate on the quality of the replication. Since my review isn't the first (or even fifth) review, and I can guarantee that there are much better ones, I'd like to approach that subject by deciding if for me it's a super rep. Obviously, that's not a scientific definition. Each and his own opinion about what super actually means, but, for me it means that in real life situations, without a gen next to it, no one could ever call it out. Bearing that in mind I'll try to tackle each major problematic part. rep on left, gen on right: (gen pic from Omega's website, don't pay attention to color differences): 1) Pearl: The pearl is good, but not perfect. Its location is quite good, but it's a tad too big, and closer to the triangle than it should be. At real life situations, without close inspections with a gen next to it, no way to call this out. 2) He valve is a tad bigger than it should be. The pics are not the same proportions, so it seems worse than it actually is. Again, no way of telling without a very close look with a gen next to the watch. 3) Omega logo: Very good, but not perfect. It's a bit higher than the gen. Even at close range with a gen nearby, it would be very hard to tell. But it's there nevertheless. 4) Lume: I must admit, I'm on the fence here. The rep has, well, a standard rep lume. The gen lume is much much better. Could someone tell in real life situations without a close look and a gen next to it? I can't give a definite answer for that. 5) Minor stuff: There are some other flaws that are so minor that I won't even mention them. Dial texture, numbers, caseback, etc... Those are impossible to call out, at any plausible real life situation. So, is it a super rep? Tough call. Without the lume flaw - no doubt. Now, you decide if the lume is a problem for you or not. I chose to buy and wear the watch despite that. I guess that for me, there is 99.99% chance that no one would ever notice that. Some pics I took (not the best I'm afraid), surprise teaser pic at the end: and as promised, a teaser pic (I believe that should be easy for some people to recognize):

Never happy with reps? I'm extremely happy with my rep 5th gen PO, was very happy with my rep SOSF, and probably will be happy with my future Avenger and there are more to come (AP, Ebel, PP and more). Sure, when there isn't a decent rep around and I really like the watch, I'll take the gen route like I did with my beloved speedy. I like many of the IWCs, but modding of any kind is problematic for me. I lack the skill of doing it myself, and sending it away is expensive and could cause customs issues. It seems that the rep industry took a giant leap in the last couple of years, but for some reason the IWCs were left behind.

Thanks Gran, that does look interesting, BUT: 1. I couldn't find any reference to the gen at IWC website, still looking though.. 2. A super rep with a faux split sec? Not in my book.

Thanks for your answers. @tomhorn: You're maybe right, but at the moment I'm looking to spend ~350$ and I want a good rep. @FxrAndy: It's a nice rep, but completely lacks an AR and it's date font is way off. Those are very obvious flaws that are easily spotted by the trained eye.

In the rep business, while no rep is perfect, most popular brands have at least 1 or 2 reps that are considered to be super reps. Now, obviously, each and his own opinion about what super actually is, but for me it probably means that the rep is so good that in real life situations without a gen next to it, no one could ever call it out, even if he knows his way around reps. As far as I can tell, no IWC rep can match my definition. Hopefully I'm wrong, can someone correct me?

Thanks again, Could you please explain what do you mean by the flagpole on the "1" on the bezel? I've tried to compare to a gen and couldn't see any difference. EDIT: OK, got it.. wow, that's a very minor flaw, I had to zoom in on the gen in order to see it... Great rep..

Would anybody be kind enough to point out the flaws on that watch? Not that specific, but V3 Avengers in general. I know my way around Omega, and back in the day could point out any tiny flaw in SOSF, but I no nothing about those Avengers... Thanks a lot.

If anybody wants to know what the gen "experts" would think of this watch: forums*watchuseek*com/f441/want-buy-omega-planet-ocean-42mm-647773.html replace the asterisks with dots. I wonder who opened that thread.. Although it's nice to know that we know are Omegas better than them, and it's another confirmation for the quality of reps, It's a bad idea to feed them with potential information.

Thanks for the review... That pearl should be the benchmark for any future QC pics. Now we know they can do better. Without a gen next to it, it's almost impossible to call this one out.

Thanks for the answers... I'm not pedantic and don't really need to have every flaw fixed. I'm also not a big fan of modding reps. Further more, I can certaintly fit the role for any gen (and I'm not rich by any standart). I know my way around Omegas, Breitlings and APs and can certainly spot most reps from those brands. But for each brand there are some models that their flaws are so small that without a gen by their side, it's almost impossible to notice them. So, whar Rolex would you say fit that spot? Something that even if you knew your way around reps, would be very hard to tell, and in real life situations almost impossible... @ninja: Could you mention the flaws of the GMT II?

Been trying to get an answer for that for quite a time now, and searching didn't help much. So, no choice but asking the experts.. What would you say is the best out of the box Rolex (gen aside) , and what are its flaws? Thanks a lot...

it's this watch: http://www.watcheden.net/audemars-piguet-royal-oak-offshore-chrono-asia-valjoux-movement-full-titanium-case-with-gray-checkered-dial-rubber-i-90678-p-1.html

Thanks again, so if I understand correctly, this watch is V2?