namor

...

First i push in the crystal by hand so it sits somewhat tight.

Then, take a rubber (a typical one you know from school) and put it on the side of the crystal which is higher than the rest.

Now take a hammer (im not kidding) and gently hammer on the rubber, but make sure you dont put the rubber on the cyclops.

Well repeat that on several edges of the crystal until it sits tight and is even.

...

Please don't get offended - but this is really a description of how to NOT do this job...!!!

Believe me, you always need the right tools. If you don't have - give it to a Rep-Friendly watchsmith.

Most of them even will do this for free as it is done within a minute...

tried that and needed 5 stitches

Hope that has not really happened...

Oooh, that's soo easy guys - and nobody checked it...

Girls, no matter which age are experts in style !

Therefore give her an Submariner LV ! She will immediately realize

that it suits perfect to her green Dress and hand out your Pam back to you...

Next time ask me directly...

I'd say this isn't a normal case. I'd suggest you try to get out of the situation losing the least cash possible. If they're not willing to help out on the postage, use their tactic and send it the cheapest way possible, show them the receipt and if it doesn't arrive, it's not your problem.

Fully agree - that's my thought.

But unfortunately this IS my problem as when the Watch doesn't arrive - I fear that I will see no money at all AND will have lost the watch...

So this would mean I didn't lose the least cash possible - it would mean I would have lost the most cash possible.

However, it will be shipped today - let's just see how it works out finally. My thoughts were just hypothetical and I wanted to hear your opinions - perhaps there'll be no problems at all and I get a refund incl. shipping costs ???

The point has been made in this thread. I think it is now time to sit back and wait. Silence will speak volumes...

Will speak volumes ? Seems to me it already does. I'm currently in a process to resolve an issue (With the "famous" Bell&Ross watch) and will update you all when I know how it works out.

It's good that the Dealer is working with me an offered a solution - but I'm curious how it works out at the end.

Whatever you do to clear such an issue, you always will have additional costs and lose time (send back, loss in currency exchange, loss in time for packaging/sending).

Normally I'm absolutely NOT picky about these things, I made lots of deals with members and dealers on the boards - everything went absolutely smooth - and if we had any problems, we always worked it out with the same smoothness for both parties.

But in this case it's a little different, I especially asked BEFORE buying about the described features of this watch and made clear that I want it BECAUSE of this features. My questions were answered positive - and I ordered.

So what do you think ? Do I have to carry the additional costs I had in this special case ? I think it would be fair to have them refunded too. I even think that I don't want to agree to share these costs - why should I ?

I ordered a Cheese-Cake and got a slice of bread. (Little exageration to provoke a smile in this bad situation... )

I agree.. but then we must assume that the current situation is not only due to abusing of drop shipping by our dealers... is also due to not doing one of their most important tasks: ensuring (however) that what they advertise is what they are really selling. If they make half of the money we guess (following deductions from an early post) they have the resources to see each of the watches they sell at least once. And ask for a random sample time to time. Is it so difficult? The lack of QC in these countries must be not only a matter of reducing prices but also a way of living

Yes, you're right of course - and even if there's something wrong, the Dealers should work with us to resolve it.

The Dealer whom I bought from the Bell&Ross first tried to convince me with these words:

"It's 28'800 BPH and 21 Jewels, you can check that !"

Maybe, but it's no ETA-2892 and no 2892-Copy-Movement, so as long it has the same BPH and number of Jewels you can call

a movement ANYHOW you want to !

That's ridiculous !

@Namor - Thanks for pointing out the B&R, I really thought it had gotten good enough to get. The superlume and ETA were selling it to me big style. I held off due to other cash commitments, glad I did and I hope you get some resolution. If a dealer is being mislead by a factory then they should be able to respond to the customer when they complain, just keeping silent or bullshitting is not the way forward. Once again, as has been mentioned, where are the dealers with their thoughts? Even if it is one of them saying, yeah, air point, we will try and be a bit more aware and open with our dealings. We are not quite at the levels of goreplicas or one of those other total scam sites but we should stop this trend before it goes in the same direction. We all came here because we were all fed up of getting ripped by bad site, lets not let it happen here.

Really really, stay away from this !

I have no clue what the big difference should be between the cheaper Asian and the "2892"-Version...

It shouldn't matter. You're buying from the dealer, not the factory. Words like "my dealer lied to me" should only be heard in the email confirming that the correct replacement has arrived.

Besides, they've read this thread, they've seen the reaction and the B&R is still advertised as Superlume and ETA2892.

Yeah, I checked both sites too - still the same Description...

We already ARE affected !

It started with mixing Swiss and Asian parts together to build movements, then the chinese

established some own movements based on swiss movement designs.

Meanwhile they're replicating the whole movements including ETA hallmarks...

So impossible to know where your movement came from originally, if it is mixed parts movement

or completely Asian.

Ok, that's a little bit exagerated - but just a little bit - we HAVE a clue what we get because experienced

members like Ziggyzumba examine the movements and can tell mostly how they're made and build

together.

But I'm sure ETA movements will disappear sooner than some of us expect - the question is: will we

realize it immediately ?

mmm... is this so difficult to understand by our dealers? They should be the first line to stop scamming... and being scammed also. If not, who are we going to trust in?

You're right my friend - but I think there are differences.

2 Possibilities:

1.) Mislabeling of Products using "Rep-Language" (for example calling asian or partially asian movements Swiss ETA).

2.) Dealers *possibly* being cheated theirselfs by their suppliers/dropshippers. (For example the sapphire issue with the

47mm PAMs a while ago - delivering the watches with mineral-crystal...)

Nobody get me wrong please - both are bad cause they harm us, I just would be cautious calling our dealers scammers...

Like I mentioned before, I bought one these Bell&Ross watches too - don't need to be specific

from whom as right now there are just 2 Dealers offering them with the mentioned description.

The Dealer I bought from tried to convince me at first when I complained about the missing/wrong

features (Superlume and ETA-2892).

After mailing him back that this really is no behaviour and pointing him to this Thread where the

Bell&Ross is discussed over some pages including Pictures - he is willing to work with me to get

this resolved.

I will update you all after finding a solution.

Till we know better my advice is: STAY AWAY FROM THE B&R ! (Don't mean to shout in a rude way...)

Yes, you would need new Date- and Daywheels anyway - so this would be

nothing unusual. I will check the measurements of this movement when I have

time, perhaps it will need a new spacer-ring and a new movement holder...

Well, friends - here just a "copy'n'paste" of what I've written

about my newest watch, a Bell&Ross:

This is the best example of the difference between the advertisement

and the final product you receive. By the way: something like this NEVER

happened to me before - I'm one of the guys who are not so picky about

the "Dealer-Language" and mixed or copied movements.

But getting something COMPLETELY different and then even trying to

convince you with the beat-rate and the number of jewels..?

That's like buying a Mercedes and finding a hyundai engine in it.

When you complain to the dealer he just says: "hey man, whats your

Problem ? This is a 4-Cylinder Engine - you can check that !"

Yeah, really nice watch - an "eye-catcher" on your wrist.

I have bought this one too - and I am very disappointed...

The watch is advertised to have ETA-2892 movement and

Super Luminova applied to the Dial and markers.

Well, the Lume is just standard - far far away from SL !

It dosn't even glow as bright as SL when looking at it

**immediately** after charging it. And after 20 seconds

it's as low as we all know it from our other reps...

Movement ? Well, that's the next joke. Like Finepics said

(and he showed some quick pictures of the movement in another

Thread) the movement is very very crappy and nowhere near

an ETA-2892 and nowhere near a 2892-Copy !!! An example for

2892-Copy-movements is FM-2892 and Omega AT 2892 just look

through the pictures of our Dealers to see how they should look like.

By the way: the rotor of this movement is loud and the winding (IF you wind

it manually) feels crappy.

But now comes the hardest disappointment for me:

I contacted the Dealer about this, his comment: I can

replace you the watch but you'll get one with the same movement.

It's 28'800 bph and 21J - you can test that...

Well, so we are in a completely new situation meanwhile...

It was ok to get copy-movements, mixed-movements, pay sapphire

and get mineral (you remember this issue with the 47mm panerais ?).

But now - we have to accept to buy (and pay premium!) for a 2892 movement

(let's not care about ETA or Copy...) and then receive ANYTHING that

has the same beat-rate and jewels ???

I'm really really unhappy about this and will continue trying to resolve this

with the dealer...

Yeah, really nice watch - an "eye-catcher" on your wrist.

I have bought this one too - and I am very disappointed...

The watch is advertised to have ETA-2892 movement and

Super Luminova applied to the Dial and markers.

Well, the Lume is just standard - far far away from SL !

It dosn't even glow as bright as SL when looking at it

**immediately** after charging it. And after 20 seconds

it's as low as we all know it from our other reps...

Movement ? Well, that's the next joke. Like Finepics said

(and he showed some quick pictures of the movement in another

Thread) the movement is very very crappy and nowhere near

an ETA-2892 and nowhere near a 2892-Copy !!! An example for

2892-Copy-movements is FM-2892 and Omega AT 2892 just look

through the pictures of our Dealers to see how they should look like.

By the way: the rotor of this movement is loud and the winding (IF you wind

it manually) feels crappy.

But now comes the hardest disappointment for me:

I contacted the Dealer about this, his comment: I can

replace you the watch but you'll get one with the same movement.

It's 28'800 bph and 21J - you can test that...

Well, so we are in a completely new situation meanwhile...

It was ok to get copy-movements, mixed-movements, pay sapphire

and get mineral (you remember this issue with the 47mm panerais ?).

But now - we have to accept to buy (and pay premium!) for a 2892 movement

(let's not care about ETA or Copy...) and then receive ANYTHING that

has the same beat-rate and jewels ???

I'm really really unhappy about this and will continue trying to resolve this

with the dealer...

Thank you my friend - yeah, you know the virus !

Always trying, building, searching...

Ah, forgot to say:

The movement is stamped:

AS

OZ 1882/83

1885

Hi,

I found and bought this nice piece:

Any Idea if this nice and clean movement can be re-used for a Project ?

By the way: if anyone has an Idea where it *possibly* came from (It's confirmed

that this watch is -at least- 10 years old !!!) or for what project this movement

can be used or what the value is/can be, please let me know !

It's a real collectors piece for rep-lovers - but in my collection there are always just watches which

get wristtime regularly...

What about this:

ETA 2824 with Dubois Dépraz Module, Tricompax-Chrono with running secs at 3...

This is build in a Daytona-Rep more than 10 years old which I own - I never found

out where it came from originally, this is not the kind of stuff the asians used to produce

10 years ago...

Pictures:

I forgot to add that the version of the 243 you are showing above is the earlier version.

Namor-

It may be ugly but put one on. It ain't coming off.

kruzer00:

I'm sure you're absolutely right - I said the same about the 127, 217, MM20 and similar 47mm models

some times ago - unfortunately I had the possibility to put some on borrowed from a friend of mine.

Well, yeah - now I own several of them, they're just lovely little monsters...

If you're careful and take your time it's absolutely possible to remove the cyclops without damage - but I don't know

your skills, therefore this is your decision.

Another point: I often realise that I dislike some details on watches and/or complete models at first sight, later on

this changes sometimes - perhaps because I get more and more used to the look or whatever.

As you pointed out the watch would be inaccurate without the cyclops, but you wrote also that this would be no Problem

for you. I just would suggest that you wear the GMT as it is for a while and observe if the look grows on you, if not

you can remove it anyway...

...my pam came today after 15 days on the air....

Frank

Good to hear, congrats pal !

Biggest flaw on both:

they are a little bit ugly...

Sorry my friend, I have no Idea whats wrong on these because they never caught my attention.

You're welcome !

Now talk about Quality Control...

But honestly I guess this is a single phenomen, nothing to be really afraid of...

Jacobsen1, I've come across a few recent 16610LVs with D serial from a customer. I guess these are the latest version from GuangZhou that he brought back. Crystals are 2mm sapphire non-stepped with laser-etched crown, no raised lip on case. Similar to what you have. Crystals are held down by thin white plastic rings/seals. Since they are press fitted and popped out easily by applying a LITTLE pressure from underneath (thumb pushing). You may want to try using the hand tool with rubber/vacuum cup (Suction-type screw back case opener?) which most people would use for case back opening. Try it on the crystal see if it turns. I have never tried this on customers watches though, but that's what I'll try before taking the disassembly route, and I guess it'll work. It may be even better if you have a watchmaker around you and if he can give it a shot on his Bergeon 5700 or Horotec opener . If that works that'd barely cost you anything. Just my 0.02.

If you have a watch like this - forget about ANY water-resistancy... The crystal definately can be popped off with "thumb pushing",

but it should be really really hard to do so...

On the subject of cyclops, how hard is it to position a new cyclops before the glue dries. I have a replacement crystal and cyclops and maybe have been putting it off for a while because of a little uncertainty of the gluing technique.

If you have the right glue for the job, you will have more than sufficient time to align and adjust, it takes at least half an hour to dry (with the glue I use) - better not to touch it for 1 day to dry completely...

Ah, one additional thing: be 100% sure to not have any microbubbles with air under the cyclops - otherwise it will bug you to insanity and you have to start over...

I had the same issue - it was a damaged balance wheel.

As fxrandy already said - these "Molnija" movements are often used in cheap russian pocketwatches,

it's a LOT cheaper to buy one and change the movements than repairing the old one.

If you are really on the DIY-trip, then you can transplant the engraved bridges (if your watch has any) from your

broken movement to the new one.

Et voilá !

P.S.: I often see these pocketwatches for around 35,- USD range - how much spare-parts can you get

for 35,- USD ? Besides the fact, that it will be impossible to get spare-parts for this movement...