namor

very nice watch . looks nice on leather .

I have the gen of this .

just a thought would it be more cost effective to buy a used gen quartz and add a auto clone movement.

No, it would not - the case, dial, hands, datewheel and the stem of the quartz aren't compatible to the auto movement and vice versa...

As promised - meanwhile on S/S bracelet (with pins - like the gen bracelet):

Bump...

Still searching these...

As mentioned before, Chris isn't able to help.

Excellent franken!

Am also in the process of buildng a 2254.

I have all the parts gen dial, bezel insert, hands, crown, tube, swiss 2824 and crystal but am having problems getting the gen crystal to fit the old skool case.

P.S Namor...your bezel insert is a little off.

Hey my friend, you just scared me really bad

I ran to my watchbox and inspected the watch - the insert is aligned very well

Old skool case with a 2824 ? Ah, yeah - there were different versions available back then... I'm curious if a 1120 movement would fit that one too..?

I know exactly how you feel. There's nothing like seeing a long term project come to a close, however the path to get there in collecting parts, missing out on and closing deals, finding that one single piece that takes a year or longer to obtain, and putting it all together with your own two hands... It makes the entire endeavor interesting but also helps solidify a personal, sentimental attachment to the piece being built. Nothing like seeing it all come together, and when you finally strap that watch to your wrist, look down and realize 'I built this...', it makes it all worth the time, effort, money and wait.

Beautiful piece, Namor. I love it!

Exact description of what I felt holding the finished product in my hand ! You're absolutely right... It's a great feeling - and the watch has a completely different sentimental value...

Beautiful work...beautiful photos.

The black dial 2254 is a long time favorite. I also have the older closed factory case, with the correct HE valve placement.

I wear mine with a gen rubber strap and gen ss deployment clasp. The gen strap and clasp cost three time what the watch did.

But after replacing the ss band I feel the rubber strap makes the watch a classic 'diver'.

Wear it well.

Thank you for your kind words ! Enjoy your watch - they're really rare birds meanwhile

Great watch, i love mine though not as good as yours

I wish i could find a good insert, i barely stand my pearl

Please consider what I want to propose you: you can make a huge improvement to your watch very easily ! It's quite easy to recess the pearl and make it sunken into the insert like it should be ! Just remove the insert carefully (not a big thing if you damage it, they're cheaply available !) and remove the pearl, it's just badly glued on usually... Then take a fine needle-file and carefully enlarge the hole for the pearl just so much that you can push the pearl in so it sits flushed with the insert - then use a drop of glue from the backside to secure it - et voil

Modded old factory?

Former PAW?

It's indeed a Franken project of mine, so happy to have it finished !!

There's nothing like a watch you built yourself...

Took me almost a year to collect all the necessary parts in perfect condition and for fair prices (otherwise it wouldn't make sense as the watch would get more expensive than a used gen...).

- old/closed factory case with laser engraved serial, 100% correct HEV, correct CGs and built for taking the clone 2892 movement

- tube, crown, HEV and sapphire genlike (have all the parts also genuine in my partsbox - but as it was not necessary to swap them, I'll keep them for another project)

- carefully chosen aftermarket bezel insert

- gen bezel

- gen pearl

- gen dial

- gen hands

- gen datewheel

- gen 1120 movement, freshly serviced

- movement holders machined by me, brushed and refinished by my watchsmith

Now only thing left is the matching old factory bracelet with correct endlinks and pins - as I said before it's just waiting for a careful cleaning and refinishing...

Having owned the gen watch (both black and blue) I can say that this one is absolutely indistinguishable from the gen - no wonder considering all the gen parts... But it's not only the optical satisfaction, after having handled every single part of this watch, it also feels like the gen...

Timekeeping was very good - but after having a service it runs easily within chronometer specs, the 1120 is a very beautiful workhorse...

That's for the secret... Now for the history :

I got the base for this mariage/franken from a friend in a trade - it was in horrible condition after an diving accident the complete bezel incl. the assembly was lost and gone in the deep ocean... The watch was flooded with saltwater and the whole dial-hands-datewheel-movement was corroded to a single piece !!

Having it in my hands I decided to give this gem a second life - even better than it was ever before !! My project was born !!

That's the final result - thanks for your nice comments so far and for reading

Thanks for the comments - actually, I like it very much on the leather with white stitching with it's Omega clasp - it has a classy look, but I prefer it on it's S/S-bracelet which is currently on my bench and waits for a careful cleaning and refinishing

The secret of this watch is... Aaah, come on, just a little more patience, would like to hear some more thoughts

This watch has an interesting history and a secret...

Let me know your thoughts and I'll reveal the details soon

Have you tried DSN? I just ordered a set from him.

Although I can use some other stuff from him too - I never wanted to go through the hassle ordering from him...

I remember the first steps from DSN here, but since a year or two his reviews went 50:50... Then there are also quality issues, for example all DSN watches I saw till now (well over a dozen) had all stripped lugscrews...

To make it short: too many hassles...

I think namor wants something better than DSN.

Namor,

Have you seem JOA's watch? I really like his stuff, although there is no brand names anywhere.

JOA's stuff is bit more than DSN's, but I was told by others his is really good. In fact, I am thinking about buying his Pam 111

Interesting ! But at this moment I just need some cases to repair some oldies

I bought just a case from DSN once. Was not thrilled with the quality.

Crappy CG and crappy crown. IIRC, other crown guards did not easily match up either.

Exactly my observations...

@ namor

I have an Alpha case that I have no use for.

PM me if you are interested.

Will PM you now

Any idea where I can get standard PAM cases (for 111) ?

They should have sapphire crystals.

Have a "WTB" since a while - but couldn't get something suitable...

Please help if you have a good source or an idea

I can confirm this 100% !! Had a TW-Best Expl.I from Eddie 2 years ago - and it was far superior to every other Expl.I rep !!

Case, crown, dial, endlinks - just completely different to cartel stuff (different in a positive way).

But I don't know how much WM9 charges nowadays for the Expl.I...

You make some good points (which cover some of the reasons I limit the amount of new work I take in). However, even with the best gen watches, you never know what you will find until you open the case or disassemble the movement. This is why watchsmithing is 90% experience & 10% knowledge. It is knowing how to handle the unexpected flying jewel or stripped screw or broken tooth that separates an amateur (like me) from a journeyman professional. Would you want to trust a student doctor, who may have committed the entire medical school's library to memory, to operate on your beautiful child? That is essentially what you are doing when you entrust the repair of your favorite watch to an inexperienced watchmaker. Sometimes, the best of intentions can result in botched jobs.

You're absolutely right ! But due to much better quality control and better assembly, better parts etc. the risk is lower when working on gen watches - also you can use standard parts to repair a defect - remember the early times when Ziggy repaired/serviced the asian 7750 movements and hadn't enough spareparts from other broken donor movements...

Please have in mind that I speak generally here... Of course not every brand uses better parts or have a good quality control - and I had enough problems with gens too...

Another issue with modding, is one of perception. What one person expects as reasonable, and another offers and thinks is acceptable. This is a VERY grey area, and it is not easy to reach a mutually acceptable level.

I fully agree ! That point fits very good to my post - but let me add something too: when it comes to modding (for example crownguards of a sub) expectations may vary - but the modders/watchsmiths also offer standard work like replacing some scratched hands - and here we are at a point where expectations just go into one direction - a clean good job. The new hands should sit in their place, not scratching the dial, not flying around in crazy angles not anything else than just doing their job - turning round and round

Dear members - seniors and newbies,

after having a conversation with some friends I decided to share some thoughts and facts with you all.

Topics are especially modding reps, modding watches in general and modders/watchsmiths:

First of all, this goes especially to all enthusiastic newbies, be aware that a rep will ever be a rep - no matter how much you mod and tweak it...

Even if you build a franken watch, using mostly genuine parts - you'll still end up having a rep - or at most, if you use all genuine parts a "mariage".

So always have an eye on your spent budget before running into this ! You can get many nice and qualitative gens for the price of a highly modded rep !

Don't get me wrong ! I know that -for example- a gen Omega never will be the same like the PAM you're after and you're trying to get more accurate, but still this a valid point - think twice before unloading big-bucks to a rep !

Like I mentioned, even a mariage watch - with all your heartblood in it, after all that time and effort hunting the parts - is still not equal to a gen (talking about naked market value !). (In 99,9% of all cases - there always are exceptions to every rule !)

To sum up: always be sure that your expectations are realistic ! This will save you a lot of money and time... If you're unsure - search for your similar watch shown by other members having the mods you're after - ask questions, read - whatever you do - but don't fly high and then be disappointed just because your watch has still not transformed into a gen !

Now to the more important point: modders/watchsmiths.

As most of you know/remember - there were a few more members offering work on watches in the past. The number of these went up as our community grew - and one after another disappeared with the time except very few true craftsmen...

Some of them just messed up the watches they did work on, some of them disappeared with your money and your watch - even if they were trusty in earlier times...

Ever asked you why this happened so often ? Yeah, first point is to make easy, fast money. But almost all of them were (and I believe still are) honest persons and good members in our community !? So again: how could this happen ?

After well more than a decade in reps and doing some watchwork for myself I'll give you some answers:

I'll exaggerate it ridiculously just to make it clear ! Reps are junk in point of quality and quality control ! (Now that sounds like a post from a gen forum )

You try to remove a screw - it breaks. You remove a hand - the post breaks off. You try to clean the movement - the mainspring jumps out of it's barrel and hits your eye out !!

Got the point ? You never know which problems are awaiting you ! And even our best (my opinion !!) man for these kind of jobs, Ziggy, is confronted with problems which can't be solved within a reasonable time and effort - so he doesn't accept these particular jobs !!

IF you have a problem - you're often not able to fix it with standard parts you can get in your favourite stores, so what to do ? Yeah, you have to ask your dealer for spareparts or hunt after a broken watch to cannibalize or parts from other members... If that is not difficult enough, you must be sure to get your version of that part !! For example a crystal from a cartel submariner will not fit your noobmariner...

Still not bored and following me ?

Now think of yourself, having modded dozens of your own watches successfully - and now you accept a friends watch...

You open up that caseback, unscrew the case clamp and *wham* the head of the screw breaks off !!

Now you can't mount the movement securely again - so you have to remove the rest of that screw - and what was a 5-minute job takes you an hour now...

If you can't remove it - you need help or a new movement - who will pay for that ? If you're a honest guy, it's your responsibility... You'll eat up the costs and hopefully get your lesson.

What about having 20 watches on your bench - all from different members ? All of these watches could have invisible problems ! So you earn 30 bucks from each job - and mess one up causing a hit of 100 bucks... Is it worth it ?

Another point: lets say you have a timeframe for working on watches of 2 hours a day - in this time you work on 2 watches. After going public with your skills in our fora and accepting work from others - you end up having to work on 10 watches a day in the same timeframe !!

You're not capable to handle all the problems, the workload, the payments, the shippings etc. etc.

So remember my words at the beginning: "...some messed up the watches..." (yeah ! because they didn't had the time to make all the work in the best way they normally are capable to do !!) and "...some took you money and your watches..." (These persons couldn't handle the mess they produced but also were blinded by the money...)

All this is no excuse for anyone - but kind of explanation. Hard facts you should weigh in your thoughts and plans about your reps - or your career as a modder if you plan to offer services for anybody..!

Thanks for all your time - hope I didn't bore you too much and I would like to read your comments

6mm is very long.

How come your movement needs such a long clamp. This is an indication on your movement is not matching the case machined or vice versa.

Not necessarily... It's fitting perfect, but is a specialty... Stilty has a clue in the following post:

I checked my tin of clamps and I don't have the long ones anymore. I remember now that I ground them down so I could use them.

They were clamps for an ETA 2892-A2 but called special WP clamps on the borel parts list. Definitely longer than the usual clamps out there. part number 166/1/554.101 $4.40 each

Yeah, the movement I'm working on is very similar - could be a specialty of it's size - thanks for the parts number from borel !! Will definately have a look at it...

Meanwhile - some friends here had a look in their partsboxes (many thanks again for the efforts !) - the size is unusual and not included in the standard assortment bags (Bergeon, ETA). That was the reason why I asked here for your opinions...

Yeah, my watchmaker could have some matching ones, or perhaps even make some new ones - but currently I have no access to him

Thanks again for the replies and ideas

Thank you all for your helpful comments !

I know that they are sold in assortments, for example a bag from Bergeon with 25 sets for around 15,- USD.

But I don't need a variation of 25 sets and not one fitting my watch - therefore my question here...

The size should be at least 5,5mm - max. 6mm.

Here is a quick-pic of the shape it should had:

I need some special case clamps for an ETA movement which have to be significantly longer than usual.

Any idea where to get some ?

Or must they be done individually ?

Thanks

Will email him immediately...

Any other possibilities ?

As the topic title says: are there any sources to get hands for a 3717 which will fit a swiss 7750 ?

When it comes to make the regular hands fit a swiss 7750 - that's pretty delicate and I would prefer to get the right hands instead of modding the existing ones... (afaik it's only the chrono second hand which isn't compatible with the swiss 7750 - correct me if I'm wrong...).

Thanks in advance

I was sure to be gentle while doing it. If this is the case, what is the remedy?

When I pulled out it worked fine, just putting it back in is the problem. The movement is still running but the crown is doing nothing when putting it in or pulling it out

The remedy is to disassemble the movement and correctly place the keyless works back into operating position...

i dont know anyone locally that would deal with a rep!

Is there anyone advisable on the forum or elsewhere in NYC? If I could fix it myself just let me know what should be done...

Thanks...

I don't know your skills - but as I described before - you need to disassemble the movement, at least partially - so think about it twice if you're capable to do that and have the right tools ?! Possible solutions would be: give the watch away for repair or sell it away and get a new one, no matter how you decide - you learned a lesson the hard way, like almost all of us

You might have jammed the keyless works if you pushed the pin too hard to remove the crown...

Normally the stem should snap in when pushed back in place...

Thank you for this informative review Francisco !

Well written and documented with pictures - very clear and understandable.

Unfortunately we have found another product on the market which is described/advertised with lies... So one has always to be cautious when new movements appear... Very sad indeed since we are (as a big community) fighting for better quality and transparency in advertising for years now !

Personally I wear my watches for a few minutes - thats more than enough to get them running. Then I just set the date and the time and wear it.

I never had the problem with any watch, that the power reserve built this way was not enough and the watch stopped during I wore it...

So as Ziggy recommends the same - I would say thats the healthier method - always worked fine for me.

Really dangerous...

Ziggy repeatedly warned about handwinding automatic movements - especially these unreliable A7750s. Shaking it like a mad cow isn't the best idea either - I have no problems with making a joke - but the average Joe having no clue about watches and movements will do that without thinking further - et voila you have another dead watch...

The date adjusting advice is valid.

To make things clear immediately: this is not "our" Thor ! I'm currently browsing with my mobile and can't check the other site - but I called Thor a few minutes ago and warned him about this, he'll contact T asap to clarify this..!