namor
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Posts posted by namor
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Don't get me wrong - we have posting rules for Offers-Section and I respect them. That's the reason why I'm asking here...
There are some unique watches or special packages not comparable to the offers of our Dealers - you can get nowhere a price to compare ! And if you post your offer without price - just to collect Ideas..? Then it's not within the rules...
Any Ideas ?
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One thing first: I'm talking generally - not about a specific modder and his prices !
When sending out your watch for repair/upgrade/overhaul/relume/modding/tweaking or something like that, be prepared to pay almost the same as what a new rep would cost...
Of course that's NOT the case if you just order a single job - but if you wish to get 2-3 things to do...
- relume
- overhaul (perhaps a little repair)
- cannon pinion fix
- 2x shipping costs
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= at least a new asian movement Rep !
Again, nobody get me wrong - in most cases it's worth it and makes sense..!
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Sorry for asking something completely different, but I never ordered a MBW:
Is the anchor the "...little Gift for true Rolex lovers..." which was always written in the descriptions of the watches advertised by luckyyy ?
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Well, for starters the crown guards are far too heavy. Secondly the date font is way off - the magnification is probably also wrong. The rectangular hour markers are also too small by some way.
That's just for starters - I'm sure some of the real Rolex aficionado's can spot another dozen or so problems... I don't own one yet... One day!!!
Yeah, right - there's lot more wrong on this watch. Too much to describe, but here some more quickies:
- Color of Insert wrong
- ugly "Pearl" on Insert
- can't judge the Rehaut, but pretty sure it's too shallow
- etched Crown at 6 is not visible on the Pic, but will be off too for sure
- thin Hands, the LV should have fat Hands
- thin markers on Dial, LV should have "Maxi-Dial" with bigger markers
I'm sure there's still a dozen flaws yet not described, but that one is so awful - there's no need to point out more...
Easy to get a much much more accurate one for the same price from our Dealers here.
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I have been using minimal amounts of 2 component expoxy.
That worked perfect.
That's the best - works fine for me too !
As far as I know that's what all our modders use too.
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I indeed had some problems with the asian movements, most of them
need a good overhaul/service.
With a service (cleaning/oiling) done, I believe too that this movement
is reliable.
Another possibility would be to just transplant the decorated bridges and winding gears onto a swiss 6497.
If this franken-movement is functional, it would combine optical perfection with swiss reliability...
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I don't want to write "I told you so...".
Seriously, this whole thing is just too bad - I hope everyone get their watches back quickly !!!
@doc:
Remember my Thread about my experience with Joe ?
There was all the same a**-kissers and low arguers - I just hardly managed to not get flamed down
with sitting almost the whole day here in front of RWG2 and patiently arguing, posting, answering questions and defending against the attacks...
Meanwhile there are more Threads and Posts about Joe and the defenders lose more and more their
base to speak positive for Joe - what will you tell ALL the people with serious issues ?
Are ALL these people "over-sensitive" ? "Impatient" ? Are we all so cruel ?
Are all the other craftsmen bad ? Do every selfmodder and Ziggy and Palp and all the others copy Joes work ?
Come on all - thats ridiculous.
Another thought: What if you bought a Sub months ago, sent it to Joe for mods - and now MONTHS later you even can't get your watch back - and now all the dealers offer an improved version where the mods aren't necessary anymore for less than what you've paid for ?
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This is easy to explain.
A good friend of mine has visited China a few times, he spoke to the "makers" of our watches too.
It's indeed a language problem. Chinese even have difficulties to understand their own written language !
Please don't get me wrong - I don't say they're stupid, but they have unbelievable amounts of
varieties of Symbols.
He gave me an true example:
One day (he visited a fair over there) he had a real bad headache, so he asked a translator where to
get some Aspirine. The translator explained him the way and because it was a little away he wrote him
the way on a sheet of paper so he could show it others on his way to ask again.
He then showed this paper some other chinese on his way to the pharmacy - only 1 of perhaps 5-6 people
could read what was meant...
Another Problem is that there is no factory who does make a necessary parts for a watch - for every part there is a specific factory. (Some who ONLY make the hands, some who ONLY make the dials and so on...)
So the factories who really assemble a whole watch have to get the parts from everywhere ! If you're doing any kind of business too you know how difficult this is !!!
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Do you mean, that the MBWs dials also haven't the correct font, and the CGs and the crown itself isn't correct?
Sad but true:
There's no Sub with all the right features...
Every different model has it's own pros and cons.
Some short details:
TW-Best-Classic: best case (according to the depth of rehaut and crystal)
CN-Sub: best dial and cyclops
latest TW-Best (It's not a MBW, other dealers have them too): a mixture between the above ones...
There are lots of more details... If you want the most perfect one you have to mod them and the best would be to buy the different models and combine them to one. (Sounds easy - but is not, the parts are not interchangeable...)
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Please, stop crying!
You are not the only one who asked for a job and got a bad result back. You have spent enough posts about the same topic. Do the job yourself and stop bitching. 
PS: Come'n, post some pics of the watch after Palp's job and we can see the final result of this "scamm".
Whats wrong with you ? Who is crying ? Slay mentioned the question about costs and business - I just sum up the costs of modding.
This has nothing to do about Joe or palp or someone else.
Stop pulling my words into wrong directions - I never bitched about the price, but about poor workmanship.
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@namor... be consequent with your words...
I am consequent vmena.
I still think it's not ok that some are waiting for several months.
But I had THIS problem not myself. I showed and told about my problems - waiting long for delivery was not one of them... This is just fair to mention, why should I state problems I didn't had ?
Joe delivered me the watch in about 2 weeks after ordering it - this point is absolutely ok.
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No way to compare hand work price in China to any western country. So yes, it's easy that upgrading a rep cost similar or even more than a rep. Not difficult to understand IMHO.
You're absolutely right ! That's possibly the most important reason !
If it were possible to order a watch from china including this modding package it would perhaps make a difference of 25,- USD to the original price...
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about $400.00 for a tw best tt blue sub, about $600.00 in mods, include changing dial. $!000.00 for about a 97% accurate rep. gen $7100.00 plus tax about $5600.00 for a nice used one. it's just a matter of what you want. i wouldn't do it for a watch you can buy for $2000.00 used but some people might. it's all up to the person.
A little more math:
250,- USD for a TW-Best Sub S/S
25,- USD for a new insert
2,- USD for better Springbars
5,- USD for good o-rings and a little grease
5,- USD for some cape-cod
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287,- USD
And you have a damn nice watch.
Add about 40,- USD for a very qualitative Crown and Tube from cousins.
327,- USD
If you have a Dremel and some fine files just add about 10,- USD for a cotton-wheel and polishing compound for reshaping the CGs.
337,- USD
If you don't own the Dremel - add an additional 80,- USD for a new one.
You're at 417,- USD - AND YOU OWN A DREMEL !
So you can reach a very very nice and accurate Sub for around 350,- USD...
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wow... after all the reading... the modding business sounds like a big money-making business. i now dont feel good anymore about sending my watches in (for what-so-ever). (this is just a personal feeling)
you guys talking about those high prices sounds like after full modding a sub you have to spend about half the amount a genuine would cost you.
IT IS big business. No offense to any modder, just a little math:
Work on 100 watches, earn about 100,- USD each and you have 10.000,- Bucks in your wallet - no taxes and free planning of your work-time.
Some of the prices are OK, some others not.
Always have in mind that our modders/watchsmiths do this in their free time. Which is especially worth a lot if you have family...
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I think there are no other issues to discuss. People who can read behind the words can CLEARELY understand what happened and if namor is right or wrong.
So let every individual think a bit, read 12 pages and end up in his own conclusion.
From this point forward nothing new will rise.. just bad-mouthing.
Absolutely agree, everything said here about my own experience. Everyone should read through and end up in his own conclusion.
About the undelivered watches: this is something the owners should sort out with Joe.
MY watch was delivered by Joe in an absolutely satisfying manner of time - so I have nothing to say to this delay-thing.
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well... after following this closely i would like to comment. namor writes over and over that his issue is that he paid 640 usd for a watch which had numerous flaws. obviously he is not happy about that. he is not upset with the price he is upset that he paid such an amount for a watch which had flaws. joe's defense is that namor didn't pay for certain modds and it seems that this would implicate that joe will not notice any flaws.. now if this is true that would be completey unacceptable and unprofessional to me. it is like he would notice the crooked crystal but hey, the customer didn't pay me so i am not going to fix it... i also do think that joe's prices implicate that he will do more then a professional job so the expectations will be high, so again i can understand customers being upset.. i don't really get all other things that are making this thread (interesting to read) yet very confusing.. i think the main issue here is that a customer paid a price for modds and received a watch that had flaws and the defense of the person who did the modds was that the customer didn't pay for those modds so that means he is not going to "notice" the wrongs in the watch were imo he should not have accepted the watch to start with. one very easy way to avoid this in the future: check the watches befgore you begin and tell people what modds would be nessecary in your opinion! obviously be honoust about this, i know tommy does this on the watches he modds for me and i trust his judgement. if he says that the insert is fine the way it is i trust him and won't buy a new insert from him (and he is honoust enough to tell me).. this still is a hobby you know.. wouldn't that be a way of avoiding these problems in the future?
off to work and curious how peops will respond to this...
Fitch you got the point EXACTLY.
First, how professional can you be NOT seeing all that flaws and sending such a watch to a customer who ordered the FULL package of mods to get a fine watch ?
Then again, how professional is this behaviour to say if I were so picky with genuines Rolex would stop making watches. Even the supporters of Joe commented this watch as poor.
First of all what should have made me suspicious is the fact that you told me that you have this watch waiting on your desk - from a customer who did not pay.
Second: you tell here that you offered me to send the watch back.
SO TELL THE FULL TRUTH:
I had to pay again for sending the watch back, I had to carry the customs risk.
And then you told me that you suppose I would have worn the watch and that you would repair it - but that it's possible that I would have to pay again for some work !!!
To say it again: I have all this correspondence - so please don't try to tell it otherwise !
So what did you expected me to do ?
Send the watch to you, let it -perhaps- be seized by customs and then have NOTHING ???
Or send the watch back to you -you receive it perfectly- and then pay again 100,- USD for cyclops realigning, watertesting, scratch buffing, bracelet replacement and again 20,- USD for shipment to you ?
To have a total sum of 760,- USD ??? THATS RIDICULOUS !
As for all the people who asked me what my problem is after the watch is fixed by palp:
I have no problem anymore. This whole Thread is just to show about business practices of Joe.
It's here to show you that there isn't everything superfine Joe does.
And if you see these reactions and all this flamings here you EXACTLY realize why there aren't more people reviewing about issues !!!
About the watch: it took many weeks and constantly emailing till all was sorted out. Finally it was sorted out because palp helped me with parts from his own watch - NOT because Joe made it ok. He was fed up begging Joe for parts.
Finally the watch is still has issues with waterresistance (I am talking about washing your hands without taking the watch off - NOT about deep sea diving !!!) and the CGs are far off being nice and well made.
I can use it as a donor for parts only...
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Namor - how much did you spend on mods?
You wrote:
- I am scammed for more than 600 bucks. (And YES friends ! SCAMMED definetely IS the right expression for this !!!)
Whole package including all was exactly 640,- USD I now have my bank-statement on my desk where my bank charged me that amount for a money order.
@Joe
quote me please - where did I say I paid 600,- USD for the modifications only ?
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ok i cant remember for sure if i didnt tell u the cyclops was crooked before i sent it but the fact is i still sent u a after picture , like i do for everyone, even so i still made good on the crooked crystal even though , so what is your point , r u saying i didnt come through , r u saying im only human , or what?
the point is u said the word scamm which is a LIE< i never scammed u did i? if so tell us how i scammed u please ?
Joe, I'm not really sure you if you read all of the pages. You seem not. No problem, you can now and we will go on when you're through that - ok ? Fair chance to everyone.
It's just so tiring to explain everything half a dozen times - all of your questions were asked before and answered by me.
After reading all you will perhaps realize that I want NOTHING from you. No money, no watch - if you want to donate to our home but I want NOTHING.
Since last summer I read a little issue with you here, a little there and always stood still. Lately this issues were growing and after reading posts from members waiting for their watches for months I decided to share my experience too.
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@ziggyzumba
Well said.
I complained about that before - just flaming, turnaround facts, pulling the topic away, many lies and agression.
And still no answer. Not one answer.
And no comment to other peoples issues waiting for months.
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interesting. so if tommy fixed the crystal, why is it still not alligned??? stay tuned kids!
There is nothing to be tuned yodaddynukka.
The pictures show the watch I received. The Thread is about paying big money and getting a poor watch.
The actual condition of the watch is completely uninteresting for this topic. (But if you're curious I described what I did with it on page 4)
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Oh Joe. It's always the same - you just miss the point.
I never stated you didn't told me that cyclops removing/reglueing is a seperate job.
It's ok. That's a work for it's own and you charge something for that. It's ok.
But fact is you never told me that the cyclops is crooked on this one - I just received it as is.
How can I order a cyclops reglueing job from you when I never saw that watch before ?
If you had told me that - I would have had the possibility to think about it.
Other thing you're riding on for no sense is that price-thing.
Again - please show me a post from me where I do say you are overpriced ?
Find me that passage and then we can discuss further about this.
Just a little reminder for you all: as I said before I have all mails in my postbox - nothing to hide.
If necessary members who know me personally are invited to read them in original order here on my harddisk.
I can forward them to the mods, but this would only cause suspicion whether I changed them before forwarding or childish stuff like that - as you see not everyone here is debating at the same respectful level.
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Sent it to joe to fix, each is a _seperate_ service from him.
I think in this case both were not purchased?
Possibly Craytonic - but he didn't ask me about that !
If he just sent me a short mail - I would have paid him for that too.
But he never mentioned any issues and I received the watch like you saw on first page of my Thread.
How Can One Find A Fair Price ?
in General Discussion
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Nor do I !!! But sometimes you have to...
Yes, thats the best method - I do the same. But after all, sometimes you still have the watch and then ?