namor

Old story again and again...

I have a Dubois Dépraz 2020 movement - would this be of use for your Project ? If not - any Ideas of what to build with it ?

You don't get me right... I know very well how the regular pricebuilding works - but thats not always the case... For example: If one has a Omega SMP from the legendary batch in good or even new condition ? These pieces are unique meanwhile - why should one discount them ? That would be not very clever...

Nor do I !!! But sometimes you have to... Yes, thats the best method - I do the same. But after all, sometimes you still have the watch and then ?

Don't get me wrong - we have posting rules for Offers-Section and I respect them. That's the reason why I'm asking here... There are some unique watches or special packages not comparable to the offers of our Dealers - you can get nowhere a price to compare ! And if you post your offer without price - just to collect Ideas..? Then it's not within the rules... Any Ideas ?

One thing first: I'm talking generally - not about a specific modder and his prices ! When sending out your watch for repair/upgrade/overhaul/relume/modding/tweaking or something like that, be prepared to pay almost the same as what a new rep would cost... Of course that's NOT the case if you just order a single job - but if you wish to get 2-3 things to do... - relume - overhaul (perhaps a little repair) - cannon pinion fix - 2x shipping costs __________________________________ = at least a new asian movement Rep ! Again, nobody get me wrong - in most cases it's worth it and makes sense..!

Sorry for asking something completely different, but I never ordered a MBW: Is the anchor the "...little Gift for true Rolex lovers..." which was always written in the descriptions of the watches advertised by luckyyy ?

Yeah, right - there's lot more wrong on this watch. Too much to describe, but here some more quickies: - Color of Insert wrong - ugly "Pearl" on Insert - can't judge the Rehaut, but pretty sure it's too shallow - etched Crown at 6 is not visible on the Pic, but will be off too for sure - thin Hands, the LV should have fat Hands - thin markers on Dial, LV should have "Maxi-Dial" with bigger markers I'm sure there's still a dozen flaws yet not described, but that one is so awful - there's no need to point out more... Easy to get a much much more accurate one for the same price from our Dealers here.

That's the best - works fine for me too ! As far as I know that's what all our modders use too.

I indeed had some problems with the asian movements, most of them need a good overhaul/service. With a service (cleaning/oiling) done, I believe too that this movement is reliable. Another possibility would be to just transplant the decorated bridges and winding gears onto a swiss 6497. If this franken-movement is functional, it would combine optical perfection with swiss reliability...

I don't want to write "I told you so...". Seriously, this whole thing is just too bad - I hope everyone get their watches back quickly !!! @doc: Remember my Thread about my experience with Joe ? There was all the same a**-kissers and low arguers - I just hardly managed to not get flamed down with sitting almost the whole day here in front of RWG2 and patiently arguing, posting, answering questions and defending against the attacks... Meanwhile there are more Threads and Posts about Joe and the defenders lose more and more their base to speak positive for Joe - what will you tell ALL the people with serious issues ? Are ALL these people "over-sensitive" ? "Impatient" ? Are we all so cruel ? Are all the other craftsmen bad ? Do every selfmodder and Ziggy and Palp and all the others copy Joes work ? Come on all - thats ridiculous. Another thought: What if you bought a Sub months ago, sent it to Joe for mods - and now MONTHS later you even can't get your watch back - and now all the dealers offer an improved version where the mods aren't necessary anymore for less than what you've paid for ?

This is easy to explain. A good friend of mine has visited China a few times, he spoke to the "makers" of our watches too. It's indeed a language problem. Chinese even have difficulties to understand their own written language ! Please don't get me wrong - I don't say they're stupid, but they have unbelievable amounts of varieties of Symbols. He gave me an true example: One day (he visited a fair over there) he had a real bad headache, so he asked a translator where to get some Aspirine. The translator explained him the way and because it was a little away he wrote him the way on a sheet of paper so he could show it others on his way to ask again. He then showed this paper some other chinese on his way to the pharmacy - only 1 of perhaps 5-6 people could read what was meant... Another Problem is that there is no factory who does make a necessary parts for a watch - for every part there is a specific factory. (Some who ONLY make the hands, some who ONLY make the dials and so on...) So the factories who really assemble a whole watch have to get the parts from everywhere ! If you're doing any kind of business too you know how difficult this is !!!

Two Posts to this topic: Read a true story about JOE and tell all your friends ! Has anyone heard from Joe ...nothing to add.

Sad but true: There's no Sub with all the right features... Every different model has it's own pros and cons. Some short details: TW-Best-Classic: best case (according to the depth of rehaut and crystal) CN-Sub: best dial and cyclops latest TW-Best (It's not a MBW, other dealers have them too): a mixture between the above ones... There are lots of more details... If you want the most perfect one you have to mod them and the best would be to buy the different models and combine them to one. (Sounds easy - but is not, the parts are not interchangeable...)

Whats wrong with you ? Who is crying ? Slay mentioned the question about costs and business - I just sum up the costs of modding. This has nothing to do about Joe or palp or someone else. Stop pulling my words into wrong directions - I never bitched about the price, but about poor workmanship.

I am consequent vmena. I still think it's not ok that some are waiting for several months. But I had THIS problem not myself. I showed and told about my problems - waiting long for delivery was not one of them... This is just fair to mention, why should I state problems I didn't had ? Joe delivered me the watch in about 2 weeks after ordering it - this point is absolutely ok.

You're absolutely right ! That's possibly the most important reason ! If it were possible to order a watch from china including this modding package it would perhaps make a difference of 25,- USD to the original price...

A little more math: 250,- USD for a TW-Best Sub S/S 25,- USD for a new insert 2,- USD for better Springbars 5,- USD for good o-rings and a little grease 5,- USD for some cape-cod ------------ 287,- USD And you have a damn nice watch. Add about 40,- USD for a very qualitative Crown and Tube from cousins. 327,- USD If you have a Dremel and some fine files just add about 10,- USD for a cotton-wheel and polishing compound for reshaping the CGs. 337,- USD If you don't own the Dremel - add an additional 80,- USD for a new one. You're at 417,- USD - AND YOU OWN A DREMEL ! So you can reach a very very nice and accurate Sub for around 350,- USD...

IT IS big business. No offense to any modder, just a little math: Work on 100 watches, earn about 100,- USD each and you have 10.000,- Bucks in your wallet - no taxes and free planning of your work-time. Some of the prices are OK, some others not. Always have in mind that our modders/watchsmiths do this in their free time. Which is especially worth a lot if you have family...

Absolutely agree, everything said here about my own experience. Everyone should read through and end up in his own conclusion. About the undelivered watches: this is something the owners should sort out with Joe. MY watch was delivered by Joe in an absolutely satisfying manner of time - so I have nothing to say to this delay-thing.

Fitch you got the point EXACTLY. First, how professional can you be NOT seeing all that flaws and sending such a watch to a customer who ordered the FULL package of mods to get a fine watch ? Then again, how professional is this behaviour to say if I were so picky with genuines Rolex would stop making watches. Even the supporters of Joe commented this watch as poor. First of all what should have made me suspicious is the fact that you told me that you have this watch waiting on your desk - from a customer who did not pay. Second: you tell here that you offered me to send the watch back. SO TELL THE FULL TRUTH: I had to pay again for sending the watch back, I had to carry the customs risk. And then you told me that you suppose I would have worn the watch and that you would repair it - but that it's possible that I would have to pay again for some work !!! To say it again: I have all this correspondence - so please don't try to tell it otherwise ! So what did you expected me to do ? Send the watch to you, let it -perhaps- be seized by customs and then have NOTHING ??? Or send the watch back to you -you receive it perfectly- and then pay again 100,- USD for cyclops realigning, watertesting, scratch buffing, bracelet replacement and again 20,- USD for shipment to you ? To have a total sum of 760,- USD ??? THATS RIDICULOUS ! As for all the people who asked me what my problem is after the watch is fixed by palp: I have no problem anymore. This whole Thread is just to show about business practices of Joe. It's here to show you that there isn't everything superfine Joe does. And if you see these reactions and all this flamings here you EXACTLY realize why there aren't more people reviewing about issues !!! About the watch: it took many weeks and constantly emailing till all was sorted out. Finally it was sorted out because palp helped me with parts from his own watch - NOT because Joe made it ok. He was fed up begging Joe for parts. Finally the watch is still has issues with waterresistance (I am talking about washing your hands without taking the watch off - NOT about deep sea diving !!!) and the CGs are far off being nice and well made. I can use it as a donor for parts only...

Whole package including all was exactly 640,- USD I now have my bank-statement on my desk where my bank charged me that amount for a money order. @Joe quote me please - where did I say I paid 600,- USD for the modifications only ?

Joe, I'm not really sure you if you read all of the pages. You seem not. No problem, you can now and we will go on when you're through that - ok ? Fair chance to everyone. It's just so tiring to explain everything half a dozen times - all of your questions were asked before and answered by me. After reading all you will perhaps realize that I want NOTHING from you. No money, no watch - if you want to donate to our home but I want NOTHING. Since last summer I read a little issue with you here, a little there and always stood still. Lately this issues were growing and after reading posts from members waiting for their watches for months I decided to share my experience too.