peepshow

Ask DSN to swap it before he ships it out, Vic. He has brushed CGs, too.

...His 040 dial could use an update as well since the 2 is shaped wrong...

Well, that depends. There was a B series PAM040 with the 2 shaped like DSN's dial, the problem there is that it should be "T Swiss T" without the dashes. (My avatar is a B series PAM040)

There was apparently a Pre-A, or maybe A series version that was the same watch, though perhaps not numbered as a 040 (unless the pics I've seen are of frankenPAMs).

Here are the pics:

B series:

Pre-A style:

The reference section of Paneristi.com only shows a B series production for the 040 of 200 units. Thus my thoughts that the Pre-A is either a franken or was numbered as a different model.

EDIT -- Upon some further research in the reference article here: http://www.paneristi.com/archives/PreA_Pan..._A_Panerai.html

It would appear that some of the PAM040 either were made with or had their dials replaced during servicing with some "T-Swiss-T" dials. Here is a quote from the article:

"Oddball Pre-A and T-SWISS-T Watches.

I have seen several PAM 040 Titanium Luminor Marinas with T-SWISS-T dials installed, probably this was done at the factory during the original production run. However, I have also seen a few PAM 040's that had their T SWISS T dials, or even an L SWISS L dial replaced by a T-SWISS-T dial when at an Officine Panerai Service Center. I have seen the same thing happening to some PAM 004's and PAM 001's from the regular A-series.

As long as this was done by Officine Panerai, I see no problem in this. But we must not forget that these watches are not pre-A. I also learned that for some watches (like the first half of the production run of PAM 040), the Officine Panerai spare part code for a replacement dial could either mean T-SWISS-T or T SWISS T. No distinction is made in the stock list."

Yes, the "Panerai" would have to be moved up. Shouldn't be that tough, seeing as he would need to change the dial print, anyway...

Here is his 111E dial, see how the numbers/indices are noticeably thicker? The "6" still isn't *quite* the right shape, but it'd be leagues better than the current...

Hmmmm, nope.

Numbers and indices are too thin, font is too thin and the logo is still too big, IMO.

He needs to use his 111E dial (which appears to be the same as his 040 dial, just with C1 lume and "L Swiss L" instead of "T-Swiss-T") as that has thicker numbers/indices and just add a logo to that dial.

On the up side, DSN appears to be using the "long arrow" logo, which is more collectible in the gen world than the more current logo.

Notice how fat the markers are on the gen and notice the size/spacing of the logo:

I believe this pic is of a G series 005.

My pleasure.

This is a cosmetic mod. The canon pin is the pin that the hour/minute hands are mounted on. Unmodified movements have shorter pins, so that the top of the pin doesn't sit flush with the top of the minute hand. Genuine Panerais have a taller canon pin installed so that the top of the pin sits flush with the top of the hands. The gens are also flattened and polished, while an unmodded tall canon pin has a bit of a dome or nipple on it and you can see the machining marks. To be 100% modded this would need to be flattened and polished, as well.

I've attached a the same pic as in my avatar, look at the where the hands attach to the pin at center of the dial, that's the cannon pin. See how the top of the pin is flush with the top of the minute hand?

I think it's the best "whitey" out there, Brad. babola even hunted up a pic of a gen 010D caseback so DSN could get all the numbers right.

Are there any Panerais with a perfect dial?

Not really, no.

DSN's 010D is very good. I was lucky enough to get one of his first generation base white dials, which is slightly more accurate than the current version (the 6 and 9 are slightly less "closed" on the newer version and the "L Swiss Made L" is printed a bit too close to the tick marks on the new dial). Even with those minor flaws, the 010D is still easily one of the most accurate reps out of the box.

Here is a pic of my 010D with the older dial:

Here is a pic of DSN's newer dial:

Can you see the differences?

The new 104 has seconds at 9 o'clock like the 111, and has a date complication as it's an auto.

There aren't any base dials like the 112 with auto movements and date complications that I know of.

The PAM048 is like the 104 but in 40mm size, instead of 44mm...

Serzat, ol' buddy, the 111 is not a base dial. Another VERY accurate rep is DSN's 010D. White base dial, solid case back. I have one.

Well, it's up to you. I'm of the opinion that a lot of the aftermarket straps out there are of equal or higher quality than the gen Panerai straps (which are made by Hirsch, IIRC). I wasn't too fond of the strap that came on my gen 210, so I sold it.

I would suggest going with a strap from Greg Stevens, Micah/Vintager Straps, TC Straps, Tootall, Savage, etc. I would highly recommend Savage or Tootall, they are active here and on other rep fora and make custom straps at $50+ less than Greg or Micah. Every strap/strap maker has a place and a niche, though.

Good luck.

It's the one on the right in the pic with the lower bars on the letter "A", of course.

Hey, did you get that from Jacky/watchboy in Greece? Beautiful watch and a wonderful choice for your first!

I say PAM210, it was my 2nd PAM rep and is my only gen PAM at the moment. After that, my vote goes to the 112 and then the 176.

Good luck.

Eddie, that is the regulator of the movement. It speeds up/slows down the rate. If your watch is running too fast, it would need to be moved toward the minus symbol and vice versa.

Gen and hideous. Although, I seem to be the minority as there are only 1 or 2 HBB models I would even consider wearing, period. Ah, well. Each unto his own, I guess.

I haven't bought this particluar model, but I would say that Angus' 'Ultimate 111E' would rank highly among the Pam fans, especially for the price! Check out his section for further details. I have bought a 127 from Angus and the service and the product is very good.

Yes, Angus' 111E is nice, but it's not a base dial.

DSN's 112 is easily one of the nicest base dial reps. As is his 010D. You can't really go wrong with either of those. The 176 is right up there, too, as it uses the same dial as DSN's 112.

Thank you all for the very informative feedback! I'll be steering clear of the SwissExpert.net folks from now on, although I must agree that the site is well put together . I think I'll go back to Angus and see about that 127 he's offering fully modded. If that works out, I might check out upgrading it with an authentic 6497-2 movement, unless there is a better movement to use?

Best,

Eddie

6497-2s are very hard to source and quite expensive if you do happen to find one. vaccum has done a review of the new, high-beat Asian 6497s and stated that he sees this as a rock solid movement. It emulates the higher beat and longer power reserve of the 6497-2, also. So, a new Asian 6497 would be my choice (that's what is already coming in Angus' Fiddy). If you want some extra assurance, you could have it serviced straight away.

I have one of DSN's Asian 6497s in my 47mm Cali dial Rad and the power reserve is within 5 minutes of the reserve on my gen PAM210 (57.5 hours).

Again, I would go with the new Asian movement, personally. I even prefer it to the Swiss movements for Luminor Marina reps (seconds hand complication) as the sweep of the seconds hand will be more accurate (I'm just being picky at this point).

Thanks, Vic!

I knew that pool table would be good for something! (I'm a horrible player. )

As long as we're on the subject of 6497's, here is a shot of a PAM for which I just popped the back cover on. While this is not a 6497 or anything else swiss, can someone identify it?

That sure looks like a Seagull auto movement to me. Usually advertised as simply "Asian 21 jewel movement" by most of the dealers.

Well that was the problem, I didn't get a response from DSN as to whether or not he was using Swiss or Asian, just a simple statement on his end that it was 6497H. However since you're feeling is Swiss, I'll run with that. Considering now that it is a 6497-1 Swiss movement, should I expect years of trouble free operation?

Best,

Eddie

I see absolutely no reason why you wouldn't. These old pocket watch movements are pretty robust and should stand up to years of use/abuse with little problem. A servicing every 5-7 years and you should be all set.

Yep, looks Swiss to me. Davidsen is a trusted dealer, if you ordered Swiss and got Asian it would have been a simple mistake that he would have been happy to correct. Rest easy, this is Swiss. Oh, and it's a 6497-1.

When DSN told you an "H" movement (OPX or OPXI), he was talking about the type of decoration the movement had. The Cotes de Geneve decoration with the single "Officine Panerai" engraved on one of the bridge plates started with the "H" series Panerai models.

Here is my latest Savage creation:

Also, here is a shot of a strap that Savage made for my 210 with "unfinished" edges, just the Gum Tragacanth, I believe.

Money can't buy everything, eh, Bean?