panerai153

When did Rolex change over to the SEL case? I think that if iwere to buy a gen, it would be and older non SEL model with lugholes. I just like the more vintage look better.

Is the crystal stock WM9, Clarks or gen? You and the maestro really did a great job on this one. I may be way off base, because I haven't tried pricing 16610 parts (YET!!) But I would expect that parts are more readily available and consequently cheaper than the same part for older subs such as the 1680. So possibly one could do a really nice modding job on the 16610 without breaking the bank. Of course considering that if you are a careful shopper and are at the right place at the right time, generals in fairly nice condition can be had for around 3k, You sure couldn't use Freddy's 10% rule here.

Genuine parts, huuuum? well you gave us one, so I would guess Bezel insert, crown/tube, dial and hands (Tudor probably since Gen. Rolex won't fit an ETA) Oh, Forgot, that sure looks like a genuine crystal as well.

throw a 3135 in that baby, and man you would have the ultimate Contemporary super franken.

Jo,

It's hard to beat those WM9 16610's. Of my non- vintage watches my v3 gets the most wrist time. probably more than everything else combined (Except my Snowflake and 1680)

All I've got on mine is a genuine insert, possibly some day I will add a genuine Bezel and Crown/tube.

Yours looks really,really nice. You must have an ETA 2824-2 in yours, the workhorse of workhorses.I do love that bezel. I'm like you, I don't think folks (except WIS) ever look at the endlinks. If the dial ,bezel,insert look right, they don't look any further. It's hard to criticize reasonably well fitting SEL's, considering how poorly most Rolex hollow EL's fit after a few years of wear and stretch. they get pretty sloppy after a while, but who cares, as long as they keep the watch on the bracelet and on your wrist.

Correct bracelet for the 7016 is the 9315T (T is for Tudor) However that may be a little difficult to find. They have been replaced at service over the years with 9315's as well as 93150's. I have a genuine 9411/0 Snowflake and it's on a 93150 w/ 580 end links

I think a $2500 budget for what you described is well within reason. Only you can answer whether $853 -vs- $2500 for essentially a non-visible part (movement) is worth it to you. ???

FYI, I have two of these. They are BONE DRY, and chances are good your reversing wheel is sticking. (Open your case back, manual wind it, does the Rotor spin like mad?) I chatted with 'bidfortime' and they have admitted these have been sitting around almost two decades. The most interesting feature on these 2846's -vs- a PT 2846 is they are NON-Hacking. (At least mine are). Unless you did Level II of the TimeZone watch school (how to clean and lube a 2836), factor another $100~$150 to service the Octo...

Thanks for the information. So factoring in a 100-150 USD cost for service, how would that compare to having a 1570 serviced? Assuming the person who does the assembly could do either one, 2846 or 1570 ?

well sometimes you can't think prices in relative terms. Sometimes you'd have to think in absolute terms. The bottom line is that it's going to cost 2 grand. If you're really firm about having it, like for example you're a person who likes having permanent pieces in your collection (you did mention that you sold your MBW before) or it's one of your grail watches, then here are really no alternatives for a WIS. It's either super franken or gen. Sure you could say that "for 2k, I could get a gen speedy", but it's just not the same. So the question then becomes is it something that you're capable of spending on without financial or relationship repercussions?

I agree. Sometimes I want something that i have a hard time justifying in concrete terms. I did sell the previous MBW, as i was replacing all my reps with genuine watches at the time. Also the previous one wasn't modded to nearly the level that mine is right now. Financials are always a consideration unless you are wealthy enough to have tons of disposable income, which I don't. But it wouldn't adversely affect my financial situation, except that it may have to replace another "toy". Also I have a couple of pretty nice reps that are gathering dust in my watch box, which if sold would at least cover the price of the movement.

I believe that a lot of why we do what we do, outside of the fact that we are all certifiable lunatics when it comes to watches, is the joy and pride associated with making something beautiful and useful from a box of of parts. I could probably scrape together the cash to buy a nice Great White SD, and have a genuine, but what fun would that be? Once the initial exuberance of opening the box and putting it on your wrist passes, it's just another watch. But if you had something to do with it's creation, albeit only collecting the parts and sending them off to Ziggy to put together, at least you were an active participant, which is never the case with a genuine. And to answer the question Ronin posed , "Only you can answer whether $853 -vs- $2500 for essentially a non-visible part (movement) is worth it to you"? The parts may be invisible, but I know.

Thank you one and all for your contribution to this thread. I really appreciate your input. Hopefully, in the not too distant future, i will be able to post photos of my 1665 as a "Work in Progress-Finished"

Hi!

I am looking to make a frankenwatch. Not quite sure which one i want, but it will be good. Only one problem... I have NO idea where to go to find genuine parts!

Some help here please?

Thank you!

If you could be a little more specific, it would be helpful. As someone said, quite a few of the reps don't readily accept genuine parts. Another thing, is the watch you want to upgrade to franken status worth spending a lot of money on?

Go over to the Rolex forum and read my thread "My 1665" Where do I go from here. This will give you some insight as to the costs of building a "Super franken" Rolex 1665 Double Red SeaDweller. Even if you have no interst in Rolex, read what the experts say it may open your eyes as to the costs, etc.

Thanks Freddy. i understood what you were talking about. One of the most important criteria you use is percentage of genuine. If a genuine costs 50,000 USD then you can afford (using your rule of thumb of 10%) to spend around 5000.00 USD for the franken.

Ronin, It does give me something to ponder. Here is where I stand at the present time. below is a breakdown of what i've spent thus far (I've kept a detailed Excel spreadsheet of everything related to this watch.

1. MBW 1665 - came with genuine superdome, genuine crown/tube and lug holes drilled (movement was serviced as well, 150.00

but that won't matter except to enhance a sale)

2.Rolex 1665 Insert 161.00

3.Rolex tritium pearl 110.00

4.Rolex 93150 Bracelet 350.00

5. ETA 2846-2 Movement (new) Octos Donor watch , could be sold in the watch if I decide to go genuine 1570 82.00

Total thus far 853.00

- 82.00 if I go genuine = 771.00

So what else do I need

1. 1570 movement 1100-1300

2. Dial

3 .Hands 20.00 (Clarks)

250.00 (Genuine)

I don't have any idea as to the price of a dial and hands, although I believe from others projects, a dial will be in the range of 250-400 USD amd hands can be 20.00 USD for clarks up to around 250.00 USD for genuine

So here we are 771.00 + 1200.00 (movement) +300.00 (Dial) + 20.00 (hands) =2291.00 and this doesn't include a movement service plus the costs of putting all this together. so I can safely say somewhere north of 2500.00 USD of course adding genuine hands adds about 200-250 more to the project.

So here isrthe question, do these numbers fall within Freddy's 10% rule? I suppose you would have to research recent sales of genuine DRSD's to try to establish and average of sales prices. As someons said, if you were doing a GWSD, there is no way you could justify this project using Freddy's rule.

assuming that you do pick the first option, using a stock datewheel, doesn't that datewheel have an overlay over it which you can peel off? I mean, the 2846 movement doesn't have correct window placement to begin with right?

Anyways,there are no aftermarket DRSD dials that are even close to being decent (IMHO). And 90% of them are MK4, which I hate. I think you should go gen GWSD dial route but that's just my opinion.

To reply to a your questions, I don't know about the date wheel overlay. the stock datewheel on the MBW is a painted datewheel I believe. I do know that several folks have tried to put overlays on their subs and SD,s and I have heard from quite a few of them that they had problems with the overlay sitting too high and rubbing on the bottom of the dial. It doesn't take too much resistance to cause the datewheel to "hang". As to the window placement, I have had two 1680 Subs and one 1665 that have the 2846-2 movement all are MBW and have the stock MBW dial. in all cases the datewheel lines up correctly in the date window.Possibly there is and overlay, and the problem is they aren't peeling off the old overlay before thye put the correct one on. i do know that the member watchmaker who has done all my modding since about 2005, will not fool with overlays because of the potential for problems.

As to the correctness of the DRSD dials,I would have to defer to Freddy about that. I am looking at a DRSD dial that according to the owner is the most correct aftermarket DRSD dial around. the dial is in transit back to him, and truthfully, I haven't even seen a photo of it. According to him, he sourced it either from Freddy or the source that Freddy used for his DRSD dial, which I believe is a very, very accurate dial.

You do make a valid point about dial choices, i would suspect that should the deal for this dial fall through, i have a fellow member with a genuine GWSD dial that i can use.

I'm not trying to build a watch that i can sell on Ebay as a "genuine" DRSD" rather what I want is a solid dependable watch that I can wear anywhere I choose.

Ever since I got rid of my MBW 1665 several years ago, I have wanted another SD. I got in the WM9 SD project line at the "Paid in full price" a year ago this week. From all indications, this project is either dead or so delayed we will all be old or dead before we get a watch.I bought a cheap SD 16600 a few months ago, sort of an interim while waiting for the WM9 SD. long story short, It really didn't set any bells to ringing. Nice watch, kept god time, but it wasn't what I was looking for.

Fast forward a couple of months, I put a WTB post in the forum for an MBW 1665. I got a PM from a member who had one, then decided he wasn't into reps and wanted to get rid if it. Actually to read his PM, it sort of sounded like he felt it was contaminating his watch box! At any rate, he sold it to me at and incredibly low price. He had installed a genuine T-39 Superdome, and the previous owner had drilled the lug holes and installed a genuine Crown/tube. So here I have a pretty nice 1665, with a fair amount of the expensive stuff (So far!) done. I have gotten a genuine insert and genuine tritium pearl as well.

Now here is my dilemma. i have basically two avenues at this point.The first is to do a minimum of modding which would consist of a 2846-2 movement and a silver flat top 3's datewheel (which to this point has been "unobtanium") I have gotten a white overlay and a silver overlay, however the person who will be doing all my modding has in the past not wanted to use and overlay datewheel, citing the problems with the datewheel rubbing and hanging up. I can appreciate his concern, and I don't want to create more problems. So at this point, unless a silver datewheel suddenly becomes available, I will have to use the stock datewheel, which is nice, but not correct in the boldness of the numbers. I also have the opportunity to buy a better dial, supposedly it is as perfect as you can get in and aftermarket DRSD dial. This particular dial is set up for a genuine movement however and would require the dial feet to be amputated.

My second choice is to go all out on this one, try to find a Rolex 1570 movement, use the better dial as it is (Correct dial feet placement) , find some good aftermarket Rolex hands and put together essentially a Super Franken.While I'm leaning toward the second choice at the present time, I'm still a little concerned about the cost/benefit ratio here. My biggest concern is not the initial cost which I can cover by selling several seldom worn watches. What concerns me is the problems I have seen that other members encounter when trying to sell their super franken watches. It seems like their is a price ceiling for reps somewhere around 500-600 USD. Anything above that eliminates a huge number of potential buyers. Several of our members here have had to resort to parting out their watches to recoup most of their investment. I'm not going through all this trouble just to build and sell, but one never knows what their economic circumstances will be in the future. and I would hate to have a watch that I had around 2-2.5k in and not be able to sell it if I had to.

I also have genuine 93150 bracelet and and offer for a set of 585 end links

I have had several offers of help from members here, which I sincerely appreciate. i welcome any comments either way as to this project. If you have parts I might be able to use, shoot me a PM.

Here is the 1665 as a "work in progress"

Probably a good starting point! unfortunately, the most glaring problem the "Wok" rehault is something that can't be fixed. Looks like the GMT hand is too long, maybe a slightly larger dial and straighter rehault is in the works? Who knows. But for 200.00 USD, you could cannabalize it for the movement, date wheel and bracelet, and still be ahead.

$1,100 Buy It Now, item #270654473422

I've been looking at this one. also a couple of others on Ebay. Looks like the prices of old Datejusts are going out of sight. Almost all the "buy it nows" are north of 1500.00 USD, with most hovering around 2k. Pretty insane for a 40 year old watch that's nice, but really nothing special, as I'm sure they made these literally in the hundreds of thousands over it's lifetime.

I' m seriously looking for a 1570 though, I don't want to get stung. I emailed the guy in Canada that has one for sale, he says it's running but needs "Cleaning". So what would that entail? I'm sure Ziggy could do it with no trouble, but that adds to the price of the movement.

.

Folded 9315 on the bay right now with 380s for $350 BIN.

Was this the one from Mark Greenburg (molarrycu) that was missing the clasp? he had one on a day or two ago that had the 380 end links, links and divers extension, no clasp.

If I were looking for a dress watch, I would go on Ebay and find a nice old vintage Calatrava. They are available by any of the high end watchmakers. I bought a 14k gold IWC a few years ago for around 600 dollars.

You can only learn by your own research. you will never learn anything if others answer all your questions. If you are truly interested in Replicas, then you need to know not only which ones are the most accurate, but WHY they are accurate. If you're just skipping through the forum, hoping to snag a 9999.9999% accurate rep to pass off to your friends as a genuine, then as fender said, you're here for the wrong reason. Pretty much everyone who is active here and has been around for a while see's the same questions over and over "who has the best replica" "who has the best Sub"? My feelings are, I'll be glad to help you over ther humps, but you're going to have to find out the answers on your own.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your quest.

Not much seasonal change for me except that I have more time to fool around with watches in the winter as it gets dark earlier and drives me indoors.

Automatico...thanks for that info.

Would you happen to have a link as to where you purchased your High Grade Swiss Relax spring bars??

I'm in need of a pair for my Relax Submarine.

You can get them from Ofrei. Go to the Springbars page, or you can search Rolex springbars. they are identical to the Rolex and cost 4.00 USD each. OFrei has a 15.00 USd minimum on orders so I ordered 4. I would assume from the way the ads are worded, they are sold individually not in pairs. Parts number FB-7895

Thanks very much Ronin, This wasa great little fundraiser. It really is a handy way for folks to see what goes into making a "beyond the run of the Mill" modded rep. Helped me out, I didn't have any idea that Ofrei's springbars were so nice. Just ordered acouple of sets yesterday for my vintage Rolexes.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Man I have to concur, Beautiful watch, great story and Ubi's master touch. W, you have a real winner here, and one I'm sure you will treasure always.

Crazy Bob needs to get his story straight. Said it is a 78 Explorer, date on punched papers show purchase date of 4/07/87 . I doubt it sat in a Rolex dealers safe for 9 years. However a 5 mil serial is consistent with 1978.Bracelet is wrong and endlinks look like rep 580's. I don't know a thing about Explorers as I have personally never liked them. I'm a GMT fan. I don't know any of the tells on the watch itself. That's why I'm extra cautious about buying from a seller with no reputation because I could get duped just like the next sucker.

I would suppose that unscrupulous sellers can buy authentic looking punched papers, just like everything else, watch, boxes ,booklets, hang tags, etc. This is really a problem, because many folks myself included would be less skeptical of a watch that has all the "Stuff" with it. I know that finding boxes, hang tags and booklets are fairly easy, but I've personally never seen a faked Punched paper.

I wouldn't buy a watch off Ebay, unless I knew it was a trusted seller, ironclad reasonable return option, and lots of good clear photos including movement photos. Surely not 7500.00 for a watch from a seller with a feedback of 4, none of them sales and all purchases for low dollars (Most 83.00 USD)

I wouldn't obscess too much about the inserts. If your making a later model 16610, You need a Luminova or superluminova pearl. And early model would take a tritium pearl. Every time a Rolex Sub went in for service, you can bet the RSC changed the insert. Most of them, if the wearer was using the watch much at all, tended to get beat up. The metal scratches, and they get paint dings and chips out just like a car. Maybe a "safe queen" that was never worn would have the original insert, but all the others are wearing a later model.What it looks like would depend on when it was changed and what the RSC had on hand.

Hands -Tudor Submariner hands they are really genuine Rolex (Made)but made to fit an ETA movement

The dial has me! I doubt a genuine rail dial. those are waaaaay up there in the stratosphere. It could be a genuine redial, but I'm not sure about that at all.

HEV -Yuki Looks just like the one I saw in the photo Freddy sent me

Case MBW modified w/ caseguards shaved lugholes drilled - Movement looks to be an ETA , so would be MBW unles you have one of the Yuki adapter rings to use an ETA in a Yuki case

Datewheel- ETA MBW 1665 The "29" font looks exactly like the one on my MBW DRSD 1665

Movement - can't see inside (My Xray vision is down for repairs!!) But I would suspect a slow beat 2846-2 as it is closer to the genuine Rolex 1570

Insert- genuine "fat font" w genuine pearl just doesn’t look like the rep pearls to me.

Endlinks- Wholesale outlet or some other replica not genuine. Lettering on genuine is smaller and crisper

Bracelet- ETZ –again lettering is not the same as genuine. Genuine 93150 is smaller and crisper. engraving vs stamped

Did I mention it comes with gen endlinks?

Those 380 end links would be handy to have. It does look like Mark is a little enthusiastic with his description of an "Excellent" 9315 bracelet. That baby has plenty of wear, although it has the potential for restoration, if you could get it cheap enough.

Like freddy said the seller is a reliable guy, I've bought a few things from him and never had any problems at all. He sells a lot over on VRF market.

Here are a couple

MBW 1680 Wristy- Arriving in Aruba

MBW 1665 - Work in Progress

MBW 1665 GW -Long gone