panerai153

Freddy,

I wish you would quit posting that gorgeous watch!! LOL It makes me go into full Pavlovian salivation mode every time I see it. I love GMT's and I love this one the best!

For your PT 1665 you need the springbars on the left, either genuine or generic. I believe your 1665 is supposed to have the lug holes drilled out from the factory.

Thats a very nice Tudor. I remember when these gens were cheap. Now they have gone up in price just like the Snowflakes.

Seems like lately, the prices are coming down a little. I'm seeing a few on the vintage Rolex forum for around 3500.00 USD.The demands seems to be slowing down a little as well.Stuff that is rare or in fantastic condition seems to sell pertty quickly, but "run of the mill" unless a real bargain lingers for a while.

Great little watch. While the Doxa divers have become very collectible and hence not the bargains they were several years ago,the non-divers can still be picked up for a song. Quite a lot of them are in pretty good shape and are wonderful watches after a little TLC.

I agree with Freddy. If you plan to send the watch off to someone for the mods, I would invest in a service. Sure replacing the movement is probably cheaper, but that's only if you can do it yourself. Why not spring for a clean lubricate and regulate while the watch is apart, then you will have a dependable accurate timepiece for a long time.I would be really surprised if the 2846's that are used in the PT watches are serviced at all. they probably wind them and if they work, they are used, no matter how dirty or dry the movement is.Even the new movements that are in unopened packages have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for years. the grease and oils have undergone changes and more than likely won't offer the same level of lubrication as they did when new.

Another thing you will need to do is shave the crown guards to the correct shape and thickness.

As far as who can do the work, there are several very competent watchmakers on the forum, you just need to contact them and get and idea of what the costs are as well as their turnaround time.

I will second that!! He is sorely missed, not only for his selfless generosity, but his knowledge as well. Hope to see you back here soon.

OK, I accept that if the time was difficult to read then a little polishing is acceptable and I am pleased to see that you haven't gone over the top . But pleeeeeease do something about that datewheel. Did I read somewhere that someone had made a replacement flat top wheel? I'm not talking about the Ubi overlay, I mean a whole replacement datewheel in one piece but with flat top 3's. I would like a couple myself if they exist!

Diesel,

I totally agree with you. The DW is terrible. I believe that the more correct datewheels were available from ETZ at one time. i asked them about the DW's early last year and they told me that they had sold them all, and they weren't getting more unless they had orders for around 100 (I suppose that was the minimum order)

The PT 1680 that I have has a much nicer silver datewheel and a 2846 slow beat movement. What if you picked up one of those pretty cheap and cannabalized the movement and datewheel. I want to put a 2846 in this watch anyway. The only problem may be the datewheel alighment and size of the numbers. It looks like the date window on the sub is bigger than the SD. Is this a dirrection that might be persued?Also is the silver DW correct for the early SD's

Well, I did a little experimenting with the crystal! took nanug's advice, went out to the barn, found and old horseshoer's rasp and went to work!! No, seriously, while I appreciate what some of you folks said about not touching the glass, this one has a little too much "wabi" for me. I don't mind few scratches, hell if you're going to play around with vintage watches with plexi crystals, you better get used to scratches. This one was just a little too much. After all if you can't see the dial, it's hard to tell the time. I was looking around in my shop, and remembered I had some Novus plastic scratch remover left from my old motorcycle riding days. This stuff works great to get scratches out of face shields and windscreens. I found bottles of #'s 1-3. #1 is a polish, #2 is for light scratches and #3 is for deep scratches. I started out with 3 and in about 45 minutes of rubbing, I got it looking pretty good. it still has a few scratches, but most came out.

Second step, rummage around in my watch box, and lo and behold right next to a couple of genuine GMT 16750 inserts was a Sub/SD insert. I'm pretty sure it isn't the correct one for this watch. I can't remember where this one came from, but i don't think it's genuine. It has a lumi pearl, so that's not proper for this watch, but I popped off the bezel, pressed in the insert (i would probably use a little glue if this was the one that was going to stay on the watch, but this was just for a few photos. I'm looking for and aged insert one that's between black and charcoal Grey, with a tritium pearl.

So here's the next step in my "work in progress" 1665.Please excuse the crappy pictures, I forgot how devilishly difficult it is to take good clear photos of a none AR'ed dome crystal.

This from the President of the "Throw it out in the driveway and run over it for a few days" vintagizing club?

Amazing isn't it coming from the guy whose smallest "Micro" tool is an 8# sledge and a crowbar!!

Looks like you'll be hanging out at VRM looking for parts A! Inserts and old bracelets are always coming up- you just have to be ready to jump when you see a good deal. A 9315 folded link bracelet would be cool. 285 or 385 ends would be good, but 280 or 380's would also do. Later 93150's with 585 ends are also OK. Inserts are also always popping up, good luck.

My watchmaker has a machine that polishes plastic crystals- just pop the watch in and voila, you can see again!

Thanks for the info. I have been looking at VRM! I'm a little leery of Ebay, so many aftermarket parts out there. How difficult to get in touch with your watchmaker, may need a pro to get this one sparkling clear.

I just can't stop making new projects for myself!. i have wanted a good 1665 for a daily wearer for a while now. After seeing the photos of Freddy's DRSD, the bug really bit me,hard! I put a WTB ad on the forum, and was offered this one at a really,really good price by a member who is totally into genuines now. From his description, it looks like most of the hard stuff has been done, but it is definitely a work in progress. Here is the description from the seller.

"This is an early MBW. It will take genuine Rolex parts without mods. The sales thread I purchased it from on repgeek is buried pretty deep

I had taken this project on about 17 months ago. I purchased the MBW from a member on repgeek. He had the crown/tube installed. Serviced the movement, and had the dial lumed.

I had a gen T-39 crystal installed ( 300 usd ) and had Marty from RWG drill the lug holes to fit gen springbars. I had attempted to sell this watch in the past with no luck. I had installed a gen bezel insert at the time, it was removed and sold. I no longer have the replica insert. The same with the bracelet and springbars."

So, here is what I've got. Watch head w/bezel, no insert, but everything else looks OK. I'm not sure about the crown guards.He didn't say whether or not anything had been done to them. From what i can see I'm going to need a genuine bezel insert w/ tritium pearl, genuine spring bars and a bracelet. I'm seeing inserts with pearls (Aged fat font) for around 350.00 -400.00 USD, don't know about genuine spring bars. What bracelet is appropriate for this one? seems like on my old MBW DRSD, I had a folded link bracelet.Would a 93150 be appropriate? What end links,580? Also at some time I probably will source a 2846 slow beat movement for it as well.As far as the crystal, I'm going to try to polish out most of the scratches unless they are too deep. I hate to ditch a genuine T-39 without and attempt at resurrection!

Any input advice parts source, etc. would be appreciated.If any members have a genuine aged insert /pearl lying around that they want to sell, same with springbars and bracelet.

At any rate, here are a few photos taken by the seller. Let me know what you think.

Don't worry. I've had that happen twice in the past couple of months. I use packagetrakr? To track my packages. Both times they were packages that were sent from the east coast to my home address in MS. in both cases, about the second day, they showed as being in California. One even showed as delivered! I was also having palpatations until the package showed up in my mailbox the next day. Second one arrived 2 days after showiing a trip across the USA to CA instead of MS.By and large USPS package tracking sucks.

Nice review. This one sounds like mine. I haven't gotten any opinions from the other folks here, but mine is also a 2010 V5. It came from ETZ right before they went AWOL. Mine also failed a pressure test, air escaping around the crystal. It's just too bad that they can't make a watch, that is super water resistant in the genuine model, that will pass a 5 atm pressure test.I'm wondering if it is possible to make this watch water resistant?

I was also told that the 2846 in my PT 1680 is a genuine Swiss ETA.

If you're worried about the movement, I would follow Freddy's advice and keep and eye out on Ebay. There are lots and lots of fairly low end watches out ther with older ETA movements, some are NOS, some are pretty well used, but if the movement is running, more than likely all it will need is a service to keep it ticking for years to come

Man, that old thread brought back some real memories!! I was one of the fortunate ones, i got 2 MBW's from Luckyy right before he went AWOL with several members funds. I have been a little skeptical of dealers ever since that event, plus TTK disappeared with unsettled deals, ETZ disappears all under the same circumstances. I would much prefer to buy a used watch from a member here. If I stick to the CONUS, I don't have any customs hassles, no problems with broken watches that need to be sent back or watches that come in and aren't QC'ed at all.

MBW's are very nice watches. They were pretty much "unobtanium" when I first joined TRC and the old RWI back in 2003,04. At that time, the only dealers were Maria and George, and you had to be and established member with recommendations and introductions to buy from either.Of course the scarcity added to the mystique and the frenzy to own one. Over the years, I've had several at least two SD 1665's and 2 or 3 Sub 1680's. They are great watches and because thye accept genuine parts, they are the perfect platform for serious modding.

Hey A, so you are happy with your Waterproof tester? I've been meaning to pick one up, but it's so damn expensive to ship it over here.

Red,

I really like mine. As I said, if I had a watchmaker close by that would test my watches for 5 bucks a shot like ubi has, I wouldn't have spent the money.

Talk to offshore, he sold me mine, and the shipping wwasn't too bad, and that was Australia to Mississippi.

the only thing about mine, and I believe most are like this, the release valve has a short rounded release stem. It's very difficult to release the pressure evenly until you get the hang of it. i would much prefer some type of bleed valve that screws in and out, but that's not the case, so I have got to use it like I got it.

Here is my 2 centavos on this. I'm a firm believer in waterproof testing. You never know when your watch is going to get wet. I live in the "boonies" so taking them to a watchmaker is pretty much out of the question. My only alternative was to buy a pressure tester. I bought a very nice one from offshore "watchbitz".

After I pressure tested all my watches , this is my conclusion: DO NOT ASSUME ANY REP IS WATERPROOF!!! Just because your fellow member has an identical model from the same seller, his may be water resistant, yours may not be. The rep shops don't have any quality control, period. Just like they throw filthy dirty and dry movements in reps, they also forget o-rings, seals get chewed up,by parts that are rough and abrasive. Case, crown attachments are suspect, and the list goes on.

Some may be water resistant to immersion in a glass of water, but won't survive a dive to the deep end of a swimming pool. Here is a list of watches I tested and where they leaked or didn't

old skool EL PAM 063 -failed leaked from crown/tube/stem

DSN PAM 24A - failed, leaked arounf Crown/tube/stem

WM9/BK v3 Rolex 16610 -passed 5 atmospheres

ETZ Rolex DSSD - failed, leaked around crystal

Euromariner/BK Rolex 16610 - passed 3 atmospheres

MBW Rolex 1680 - passed 3 atmospheres

PT Rolex 1680 - failed leaked around crystal

noobmariner Rolex 16600 - passed 3 atmospheres

UN Maxi marine Diver - failed leaked around crystal

That's the results of my watches, your identical watch from the same dealer may not test the same. I wish they were all water resistant. It would simplify things a lot. I have always wondered why you can buy lots and lots of water resistant "dive" watches for around the same price as a high end rep, but the rep makers obviously don't need to make them water resistant, because we keep buying them anyway.

What I've learned from this is don't assume anything, and don't trust the rep builders to tell you the truth. In their listings, practically every watch is water resistant to at least 5 atmospheres, that's just part of the sales pitch, they aren't tested at all, unless you pay extra to the sellers. the biggest laugher of all are the ones that claim 100-200 atmospheres. That's pure BS.unless you are prepared to spend time and money on a repair bill, I would recommend having every one tested before you put them in the water.

You would have to really have "eagle eye" vision to see the rehault engeraving on someone elses watch from anything over a foot away. At least with my poor vision it's pretty difficult to pick up. i'm sitting here looking at the evngraving on my DSSD, and I have a hard time seeing the rehault engraving at all.

I think we get a little too obsesive about details. i would expect that 99999.9999% of the population couldn't tell the difference between a genuine Rolex and a "Canal Street cheepo" much less the quality of reps most of our members wear.And secondly, that same percentage Don't care!

ubi my man, you have done it again. That is a really beautiful watch.

Hey Banned Man,

I think you will love the 1665. it's the iconic Rolex dive watch in my opinion. I don't currently have one, but I have had a couple of genuines as well as 2 old MBW's a DRSD and a great white. The crystal height bothered me a little at first, but I soon got used to it.I think that if you're not sure, buy a PT with the slow beat and try it out. If you like it, you can always move up to a little nicer vintage. I would love to have one of my old MBW's back. I have a trusty 16660 that I bought to use while I wait for my WM9 SD, but it looks like that may be a "Forever project"

Enjoyed your posts about your banning on WUS. i couldn't agree more with the majority here. Most of the mods take themselves a lot too seriously, and the Draconian rules are their enforcement have turned what was once a fairly good forum into a sterile wasteland.

I've had a couple of old genuines that came back from RSC with one CG a bit smaller. in both cases, I had pretty big dings in one of the CG's and they tried to polish out the deep scratches and resulted in a little thinner side. Knowing what I know today, that was probably 20+ years ago, I would absolutely forbid them to touch the case with any type of polisher. Unfortunately, back years ago, most folks were very impressed with the fact that when they got their beat up old Sub or SD back from RSC's they looked like a "Brand new watch". Little did we know that the new dial, insert, crown, maga polish, etc. was probably greatly decreasing the value of the watch down the line. At that point in time they were just tool watches, and most Rolex owners weren't collectors, just users.

What you are experiencing here seems to be and ongoing problem with reps. The rep factories produce a great looking watch, pretty close to 100% from the outside at first glance, but when you start taking things apart, the trouble starts. They skimp and cut corners to save a few cents, which translates to big bucks when you sell millions of reps all over the world. The reason Rolex, for instance, constructs the bezel, retention ring, gasket,tension washer, etc. the way they do is because over time they have determinrd tthat their method WORKS! Bezel changes, crystal changes, insert swaps are a breeze.Also they have a method that when properly installed, guarantees the waterproofness of the crystal assembly.The rep builders are only concerned with getting it put together so that it loooks like the genuine, absolutely no regard as to whether or not it will perform like the genuine.

I cerainly am complete noob as far as repairs, but it looks like your best bet is to dig out all the epoxy, remove the crystal, and start back over from scratch. New gasket, possibly a retention ring from JMB?

My PT 1680 also has the crystal glued on, you can see a tiny bit along the top of the rehault in a couple of places.

Good luck

Lutero,

You can sell your reps on the forum, you must be a VIP member in order to sell in the watches for sale area.

Who knows what is going on! There is and ongoing thread on BK's sales page, but nothing except speculation. AFAIK, the WM9 website is completely generic now, no mention of the SD except references to genuine. i haven't been to the WM9 forum in months, mostly folks over there ranting about the wait. BK is probably as much in the dark as everyone else. Certainly he hasn't posted any SD updates on his page.

If you bought your SD through BK, he has offered to apply the SD deposit to another watch in his lineup. If you'r a WM9 direct customer as I am, you are at the mercy of George. When it comes, it comes, if it doesn't then We are out whatever we put up (in my case, full price paid in advance). i learned my lesson on this one, as I'm sure others have as well. I will never put up a deposit for a watch that's still in the "Dream" stage. Better to wait until it's in production and buy, even if the price is higher.

Another opportunity window, although one that is probably closing rapidly is to sell your slot to someone who is more patient and willing to take the risk and the wait. I'm not sure anyone would go for that with a WM9 direct deal, but some may if dealing with BK.

I agree with the guys posting above. The SS/gold Rolexes are not popular and are really dogs when they hit the marketplace. I consistently see TT subs selling for less than their SS counterparts. So unless you are hell bent on a TT GMT, I would run away from this one. As Freddy said, not much history (Seller), poor photos and no movement photos. Save your money and keep looking. IMHO you would be beter off going over to TZ, WUS or Rolex Forum sales corner to buy a genuine. I find Ebay to be too expensive and lots of dodgy watches posted for sale there.There are bargains to be had on Ebay, but they are few and far between, and usually you will get outbid by someone who is more knowledgable about prices.