panerai153

old MBW case is definitely the way to go. This is the one that is engraved "orig Polex Design" 5513. This is the case that MBW used for the 1680 as well as the 5513. It will accept genuine parts. You can purchase these from Eurotimez( just the case) or keep looking on the forum and quite often a complete watch usually a 1680 comes up for sale. the only problem with that, most of them have already had some degree of Mods done to them. the ones that have lots of genuine parts i.e. Crown/tube, insert, crystal and lots of other mods like a slow beat movement, better dial, dial and hands relumed and a better rep bracelet or a genuine 93150 are going to be quite expensive.Rarely a case comes up for sale, but make sure its the old style MBW.

Good luck

Arthur

Lani,

That is a great watch!! The Zigmeister is truly a master craftsman. I'm not much of an Explorer person, but I really like this one. It would make a great dress watch to wear on occasions where a Sub or SD would be a little too Sporty. What engine is in this one? Love that Alligator band as well.

Cheers

Arthur

@3orkham

What are you asking for? Do you want photos of the dial/bezel, or are you asking for a source to buy the dial and bezel?

Arthur

@ dizzy,

I really don't know. the watch seller had the watch in on a trade from a very well respected rolex collector in the San Francisco area. He traded the guy a Genuine Daytona, for a pile of cash and the Tudor plus another watch or two. the first seller claimed the watch was serviced by Rolex San Francisco, but he didn't know how long ago. It probably has been years, as the watch was running about 30 min slow/day and the date changed at 5 AM rather than 12. I would bet the service was 10-15 years ago and they changed the hands at the RSC, probably didn't have any Tudor hands in stock. Just my speculation. May know more when my watchmaker opens the case. Possibly the RSC marked the inside with the date of service.

Arthur

That really is strange that you have had that many problems. Leads you to believe that someone at your local PO may be pilfering your packages. if that is the case, i would have a talk with your local Postmaster, possibly others using your PO are losing stuff as well.

If you look at the sales pages for most of the respected sellers of watches on the other forums and on Ebay, they NEVER ship to Italy except by FedEX or DSL. obviously theft is endemic within Italian Customs and PO system.Personally, I wouldn't ship to Italy, as the shipping to Italy by FedEx would be cost prohibitive.

Another thing, I totally agree with some of the other members, only ship in boxes. Envelopes are much to easy to conceal under a jacket otr coat, also to slip into someones locker until quitting time. I also believe that buying insurance, at least enough to have the insurance sticker on your box, along with delivery conformation, is a deterent to theft.

USPS has a terrible tracking system. i had a local PO employee tell me that the weak link is the lack of importance they place on scanning packages. Scanning is mandatory at UPS and FdEx, and should be with the USPS, but it is often overlooked. When a scan is missed, the chain of custody is broken. The only really secure method , and it certainly isn't foolproof, is Registered, where everyone who touches the package has to sign for it. all of this is certainly more expensive, but only one 500-600 dollar watch lost will pay for a lot of insurance ,boxes and priority shipping.

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

I would bet that this was done by some malcontent who is either P.O'er with one or the other, or a hacker who is just "practicing' on websites that probably don't have a multi level security system.

At any rate, it sure has created a lot of frustration and consternation over the past few days.

Arthur

I believe that what you need to do is decide what you like and want. Start with that and then work out from there. Some folks collect only one brand, others only one era, others only one type i.e. Chronographs.First off you are buying these watches for your on use and enjoyment, they are certainly not and investment, as very few of the reps have ever increased in value. So buying one for 150.00 or 500.00 Dollars is your decision. I believe that the problem most folks have when they start collecting, is a lack of direction. They like everything!! With reps, it doesn't matter, because as I said before, they aren't appreciating so you aren't buying them as an investment. After you decide which brand, model, etc. you want then you can focus on the dealers, or start looking on the sales forums for what you want. Have fun, don't take it too seriously and most of all read, read, read. The more you know.... Well, the more you know.

Cheers

Arthur

I ordered a Gen 1570 movement from Phong for a 1665 project and it was fine. He seems to be involved with servicing Gen Rolex's as well as the replacement parts business.Makes we wonder how many so called 100% vintage Gen watches are out there, and are the so called Vintage dealers using people like him to source impossible to find parts then age them to complete restorations.Especially when you think how much the early Subs and Explorers go for these days.

That's a good question, and I would bet the answer is it occurs more than we suspect. If you had a Red Sub for instance and it had a beat to Hell and back case, but internals, dial, hands, etc. were OK, what would prevent dropping everything into a replacement case that had been "Aged" and now you have a much better example. With the ability to engrave numbers, it can be made so that everything matches. I believe that the guy on Ebay that has been selling Red Subs for around 8-9K is doing exactly that, he just didn't do a good enough job of making the old and new parts blend together.And in actuality, what is the difference on doing this and sending a beat up vintage to Rolex and getting a new Bezel,dial,hands, everything but the case and movement.I believe the only difference is the disclosure. With a Rolex serviced watch all the changes will be noted in the service papers, they aren't trying to cover anything up or pass something off as "All original"

Arthur

Very nice job. Got yourself a fine watch.

Arthur

Hey Arthur,

QUite familiar with our discussions regarding your sub. Is it Stevey that you're sending your sub to? Were you able to confirm that the watch didn't come with those hands originally? PM me if it was Steve if you don't mind.

Also, the T in 9315....not certain it stands for Tudor. I've seen many 5513's with 9315T bracelets as well before they used the 93150 on them. Also, if you still want me to find out a cost for a mint 93150 from Bob Richard's I can.

I had about 5 or 6 fellows on the Vintage Rolex forum as well as TZ Vintage Rolex say that they had never seen a 9411 Snowflake with Mercedes hands, which is to say that it's possible, especially with a watch that is right in the serial number range that a new model with a lot of changes was taking place, just that no one on the forums has seen one.

Arthur

That is a great idea. I have liked the 2893's from back in 2006 when the PAM 063 amd 029 were available for a short time with genuine ETA 2893 movements. It's a real workhorse sturdy movement and is a true built from the ground up GMT. As for the hand stack, I believe it is the same stack as the incorrect hand stack movements, as the GMT hand is settable.

That is going to be one sweet watch.I am hoping that when WM9 builds the GMT, it will have the 2893 as an option. Problem is from what I have read, Swatch controls that movement closely, and its a lot more expensive than the 2824 or 2836.

Pictures Please

Cheers

Arthur

Here's my gen Tudor branded 9315T folded link bracelet. Not sure what you are refering to about it not being comforatable? It's super comfortable to me

The watch looks amazing J! Congrats again on a great looking franken!

Sorry, Too much wine last night! I meant to say substantial. The 93150 feels a little more substantial. Also it's easier to find. I eventually want to put a genuine bracelet on mine, either a 9315T or a 93150.For the time being, I'll use the rep 93150.

Red, can you measure the width of your Tudor clasp? I saw one on Ebay last week, but the measurement seemed slightly narrow. It was 16.? mm wide, and my rep clasp is 17.25mm

Thanks

Arthur

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective, but why would anyone choose this movement over an ETA? they won't fool anyone who has at least a rudimentary knowledge of Rolex movements.They are a crude attempt to fool people into thinking they have the real thing, no more, no less. It's hard to imagine a movement with a part glued in place! thogaa is the second person on this forum to report this "retainer clip" falling off. Someone a couple of weeks ago reported that their watch stopped and when they took the caseback off, this part fell out. I realize that even the best genuine movements break, and sometimes parts are not tightened properly, etc. but I can't think of a genuine movement that has parts stuck on that are just and accident waiting to happen.

I believe that If your trying to create a replica that fools people, i.e. the Red sub on Ebay that used a bunch of genuine parts, but was still recognized as a franken by folks here as well as the vintage Rolex Forum, you are doomed from the start. And if you are trying to do it with a DSSD with a clone 3135, you don't have a chance.

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

Steve is a pretty respected seller on the RolexForums,he is very knowledgable about Rolex and Tudor watches and is a repuutable source of parts.Also, these forum sales areas are scrutinized very, very closely. i would expect if a watch looked "odd", the regulars would jump all over it.

Arthur

@Gavidoc,

That's a mighty fine watch. I really , really like it. I'm sort of with you on the clasp. I'm looking at a 9315T (Which is the correct bracelet for the 9411) w/ 380 endlinks. Best price I have seen so far is around 750.00 USD for a well worn bracelet w/ end links. I can wear a nice 93150 rep bracelet, which may not fool a Rolex expert, but it looks OK. and it's a lot more comfortable than the folded link 9315T (T is for Tudor clasp.) That are Pretty hard to find.

Here is mine which is a genuine 9411 96XXXX serial which dates it to late 81 early 82 model. It is in almost the last serial series for the 9411. Mine has incorrect Rolex Mercedes hands that were put on at Rolex San Francisco years ago. It's leaving for Florida on Monday for a hand exchange and a movement clean/lube and time (It's losing about 30+ seconds a day. I got a good deal on a set of hands and the seller has a watchmaker who can do the rest of the work, and he is taking my Mercedes hands as part trade on the snowflake hands. More photos when it gets back home.

The nice thing, as some folks have alluded to in other posts, if you

sorry but it may be me, how comes the mbk 1680 - 5513 cases have orig polex design, i thought it was ment to be reg design?

Obviously the guy who was in charge of the engraving couldn't spell!!

where can i find mbw cases? thanks

Eurotimez has "old style Polex Design" 5513 cases which will work fine for a 5513 or a 1680 project.

Good Luck

Arthur

I voted, Have You?

I had one that I was wanting to put on a project 1680, however The watchmaker who is doing some work on the watch, told me that the datewheel is too thick and interferes with the bottom of the dial face. he wouldn't put it on as it would be a futile attempt with lots of problems. mine is paper, and seemed to be a little thick. It would seem that someone could come up with one that is made of Mylar or some type of thin but strong film that would be slimmer and not be a problem.

Arthur

Another alternative if your patient, is to keep looking at the Sales forums on all the rep forums.fairly often an old MBW will show up, some have had a few mods, some none at all. you have a very good base to start your mod project, or to finish one that has been partially done. i picked up a White letter MBW 1680 a few weeks ago w/genuine crown/tube, genuine crystal and good aftermarket insert for a little over 300.00 USD. I can now put on a genuine dial, hands and with the slow beat movement that's going in it, i have a really nice 1680. So thare are lots of ways to get a nice reliable daily wearer.

Arthur

Ronin,

that looks really nice. maybe you could produce some of those for the folks who aren't ablle to get in on the MKII kingston's.

Great project

Arthur

The bracelet looks to me like they took several links out and ended up with too much size difference between the links. With a tapered bracelet, If you take a couple of links out then the taper will not be consistent. i'm sitting here looking at a 93150 bracelet, and if you take out two links and then re attach to the link that is permanently attached to the clasp, you will not get a smooth transition.1st link is 15.67 2nd is 16.07 3rd is 17.09 so if you take out the second link the transition is from 15.67 to 17.09 right together. you can look at the links on your oyster bracelet and see what I'm talking about. More than likely, if the watch is a replica, the bracelet is as well.

What i would like to see would be the end links and the bracelet ends and endlinks from the side to see if a genuine springbar would go through and if it does do the end links andlast beracelet link look like they have been drilled out or pried open to allow a genuine spring bar to go through. All of the rep bracelets thus far that I have seen will

not accept a genuine Rolex size springbar, as it (springbar) is too big.

Just my Dos centavos

Arthur

you didn't do half bad considering the hands are replacements. Interesting story told about the SF service center. Especially the bit about the "tritium" hands. Unless they were used hands they put on th watch (appears the hour hand is missing some tritium) I'd start to wonder. I'm certain they are "original" but would wonder if a yarn was told to make it appear that the watch was recently serviced (I've been through that many a time and unelss there is documentation to back it up don't believe it).

Depending on th serial # of that 9411, I'd actually bet that there is a STRONG possibility that those hands are ORIGINALto that watch. The late 9411 snowflakes actually came with Mercedes hands right before the switch to the diamond dial and the 76100 as I have seen numerous examples.

If you decide to switch to snowflake hands, you will be looking at around $200 for hands that need to be relumed and up to $400 for a set of original tritium hands. Or you could send your sub to the Sydney RSC as they have service snowflake hands for the 9401 and 9411. A vintage blue insert will run you around $300.

I would NOT put aftermarket snowflake hands on that sucker. Would you put an aftermarket bumper on a Porsche?

Gavidoc

Thanks for the tips. I would bet that you are correct, looking at the photo, it looks like the crystal has a chip at around 4-5 O'clock. It would have never left a service center like that, would it? It may have been serviced, but who knows when. I don't have the serial# but I should have the watch by Wednesday.How would I go about sending to The Sydney RSC? I'm in the USA. Would they take a watch from the USA? Also, what would the service cost with the proper Snowflake hands?

Supposedly this insert was put on when the watch was serviced. The seller is very reputable with tons of sales on TZ and other forums. He took the watch in trade just a few days ago, so he only has the sellers story to go on.

I will wear it like this for a long time,before I would put 30$ hands on this watch. I will either send it to Rolex, or try to find some genuine hands and get someone to match the lume.

thanks again

Arthur

Incredible!!!

thanks guys, I have been thinking about a Blue dial /Insert for a long long time. I almost got one about 4 years ago, but the watch sold about 10 minutes before I could get to my computer to email the seller.

I would like to use genuine hands if possible, but I would consider really good aftermarket. Probably are going to need to have the hands relumed to match the dial. I really think this one with the correct hands and a correct bracelet will be a real keeper.

And a special big thanks to Lani. If he hadn't put up this thread, I would never have ever known about this watch.I seldom go over to TZ much anymore. I hate to window shop!!

Arthur