panerai153

Read this interesting article today in USA Today. You can read the full article on their website. "Raids crack down on counterfeit goods"

From this article, one has to wonder if this is going to have any impact on the replica watch trade as we enjoy it. Several years ago, there was a big push by ICE and US Customs to stop counterfeit watches entering the USA. We had quite a few posts, lots of folks, including myself were pretty afraid to order from anywhere outside the USA because of the threat of confiscation. At that time, our perpetual nemesis Brian Bokate (see below), was vowing that he would put a stop to the counterfeit Rolex market. Over time, things quited down, Customs rode off on another quest, and everythig pretty much turned to normal.Looks to me like things are heating up again.It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will Customs crack down at every POE and make the importation of replicas very risky, or will they turn up the heat right before Christmas. and then lose interest as Winter turns to Spring!!

Article in USA Today

DALLAS When federal and sheriff's investigators showed up with a search warrant at Bargain Corner Jean Store here, they found about $130,000 worth of fake True Religion, Ed Hardy, Affliction and other high-end jeans, T-shirts and sneakers. They hauled out 1,500 items in 40 trash bags and 18 boxes from the store, the owner's minivan and employees' cars

Counterfeiting "is a multibillion-dollar industry, a global crime and a serious threat," says Marcy Forman, director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center in Arlington, Va.

So, just as the stores and websites that sell knockoff designer clothes and accessories were gearing up for their holiday rush, so too were the investigators and agents. Raids, including the one here coordinated by ICE officials, hit 41 stores, flea markets and warehouses in the U.S. and Mexico for six days beginning Dec. 8, confiscating $26 million in counterfeit goods, ranging from fake fashions to pharmaceuticals.

Last week, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's Office of Special Enforcement closed 31 stores on Canal Street in Chinatown for selling counterfeit designer goods.

"When a person buys a counterfeit, they're actually supporting organized crime," says Brian Brokate, general counsel of Rolex Watches USA. "One of the challenges for the industry as a whole is public awareness."

ICE's Forman says there is at least a "dotted line" to terrorism, noting the "tri-border area" of Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina "has been known to house potential terrorist organizations" and is also a hotbed of counterfeiting.

Some shoppers can fall for claims that stores or websites purchased overstock from high-end department stores or brands. And some of the knockoffs look so legitimate that investigators have to look for designer-placed indicators to determine authenticity. But Rolex's Brokate says he believes only a small percentage of consumers who buy counterfeit luxury goods are duped.

When Rolex's trademark appears on a shoddy-looking product that eventually breaks, consumers aren't getting their money's worth, either, says Brokate. A consumer who buys a fake Rolex for $200 "could have gone into Macy's and bought Seiko or Casio or some other brand watch in that price range" with some assurance of quality, Brokate says.

Tired of watching their brands become synonymous with counterfeiting, manufacturers are stepping up their trademark enforcement.

Gucci is suing Woodforest National Bank in Texas for processing credit cards for counterfeiters. Tiffany is appealing a counterfeiting case it lost against eBay, which claimed it was the jeweler's, not the auction site's, responsibility to weed out fakes. And LVMH, parent company of brands including Louis Vuitton and Fendi, is suing Internet service provider Akanoc Solutions, alleging it knowingly allowed online counterfeiting. Coach alone has filed 100 lawsuits in the past year.

In October, it sued Target for the second time over trademark violations, this time for selling purses it says are identical to Coach's.

The brands also often raid businesses with U.S. law enforcement each year.

"The whole idea is to create a general deterrent," says Coach general counsel Todd Kahn. While "you can't stop all counterfeiting," the company hopes to convince criminals that "if you counterfeit Coach, it's an expensive proposition."

Late last month, Michelle Bunfill of Granite Bay, Calif., was sentenced to 36 months probation and 10 months of home detention after pleading guilty to selling fake Chanel, Dolce & Gabbana and other counterfeit purses and accessories at purse parties and "recruiting others" to sell them at their own parties, according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Robin Taylor. From June 2006 to August 2007, Bunfill's gross sales were $184,046.

Handbags! Handbags!

Like the high-end designers they copy, counterfeiters have their favorite hubs of commerce, typically Harry Hines Boulevard in Dallas, Miami, Los Angeles and New York City's Canal Street. Canal Street became such a haven for knockoffs that it was a regular stop on many tour bus routes. Out-of-state tourists have often been seen walking the streets with black trash bags filled with purses that investigators say are brought home and sold at purse parties.

Police and the brands have cracked down so much in this area that it can be difficult to even find a store openly selling knockoffs. When a USA TODAY reporter visited recently, hooded men often stood shoulder to shoulder on the sidewalks whispering "handbags, handbags" to passersby, waiting for a hint of interest.

The big chill on Canal Street counterfeiting started in February of last year when city officials shut down 31 stores in Chinatown for counterfeiting offenses. A three-story "mall" that took up a city block still sits empty.

I saw a news report in the New York Times last week i believe that Tag Australia was removing all advertising with Tiger Wood's photograph from it's dealers showrooms.

It's pretty sad, and a little incredible to me that someone can go from and Icon to a punchline in a mattter of days. I suppose the higher up you are, the farther you have to fall.

Arthur

This subject has been hashed out up, down and sideways. those who contribute will continue to do so, those who don't,won't. It's just like every organization I have ever been affiliated with, about 10% or less of the members do ALL the work, for that they also get 100% of the criticism if things go wrong, but Damn little credit if everything goes well.

My feelings about this forum are: If you come on the forum, read, research, ask questions, and from that avoid falling for a scam watch on a scammer site, and thus save several hundred dollars , is that not worth the price of admission? If you read the reviews here, and decide that based on a review, you will not buy a particular watch, is that not worth the price of admission? If you have a source for selling your surplus watches, or the one that "you just had to have" only to find out that when you received it, it just didn't speak to you, is that not worth the price of admission.Personally, I believe these are all valid reasons to become a paying, contributing member. Now, if you are just superficially curious about Reps, and you are just making a one time visit to get a tiny smattering of knowledge, I wouldn't expect you to have to pay.I'm sure some folks find this and other rep forums, lurk for a while and either find what they are looking for "Who has the perfect Submariner" or realize that this isn't the place for them, and move on. To those, I wish them Godspeed and hope you find what you are seeking. But for those who are here to stay, participation comes with a price.

I have pretty much opersated with this addage my whole adult life, "nothing worth having is free"

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

If the back is that bad, I would hate to see the front!!! i wouldn't give you 10 cents for a sack full of this POS

Arthur

As far as the "genuine EA's" in Reps, who knows where they source them, if they are new, used ,stolen,etc.One recurring theme seems to be that they are dirty, dry and almost always benefit from a clean/lube.

As far asa source for movements to use for modding, common models can be gotten from various watch repair supply houses such as Ofrei. If it's a less well known or older model, probably the best sources are NOS watches, or used watches either from dealers, pawnshops or ebay. ther are literally millions of good used watches out there mostly from less well known makers that can be gotten at a very reasonable price.I purchassed two movements for old Doxa Sub 300's by buying "donor "watches from watch dealers.

Arthur

There used to be several dealers selling MBW, but obviously most of them have fallen by the wayside. George used to sell them, but I don't think he is still selling.It looks like Eurotimez has them on their website. I don't know where all their watches are shipped from, but I got a DSSD from them a few days back, and it was shipped from China.

I agree, the MBW is the only way to go that is reasonable. If you had plenty of money,time and skills to do the stuff yourself, you could get a Yuki case, Genuine Bezel,Insert, crown, tube, dial/hands and Rolex 1570 Movement, and you would have the ultimate Franken. Done correctly, they are virtually indestinguishable from the genuine. Of course, you would have several thousand dollars invested in a watch that still wasn't the real thing, but very,very close.

On a more reasonable note, you can start with an MBW, upgrade the Crystal, insert, crown/tube and reshape the crown guards to genuine shape, and you wil still have a very nice watch that would fool any but the most avid WIS, until you removed the caseback and revealed the ETA movement. But short of that it would be a really nice watch. If you look at the watch sales forum occasionally these come up already fully or partially modded. I just bought a 1680 White dial in really nice condition that has a genuine crystal, crown/tube and a better aftermarket bezel insert. I know of a forum member who has a MBW GWSD, no idea how much modding if any, but he is selling some reps, and may be interested in selling that one. Pm me if you want me to contact him.

Good Luck

Arthur

I second the "buy the seller then pick the watch" addage. It holds true with everything you buy, not just watches. You don't have to necressarily go to an AD for a Rolex, unless you want a new one with all the proper documentation and a dealer invoice in your name. If you are willing to buy a "Gently used one" there are lots of reputable fokks on the various watch forums that sell used Rolex Subs. You can go to WatchUseek,WatchNet or TimeZone to name just three. There are always good used late model subs for sale there.

Ask the seller for references,and then email the references to make sure they are legitimate. Scammers hit these forums every now and then, but they don't stay around long, as the members are very diligent about reporting any suspicious activity. also if a watch looks like it's not correct, someone is going to speak up and let everyone know about it. Watch net has a "Good Guys" section for dealer feedback. I have bought and sold lots of watches on these three forums and always had good luck with my deals.Another thing, make sure there is an ironclad return policy and that the seller understands that you are going to take the watch to a watchmaker and have it inspected. If he refuses, run away. Also I am a little leery of the sellers who insist on Money transfers, Western Union, etc. Although if it's a really high end watch, you may have a problem with Paypal, using a credit card. I know AmEx at one time had a 1000.00 USD limit on Paypal transactions. I have used bank wire transfers in the past, but it was always with a seller I had done business with or knew, or someone who had lots of very good references. I would probabl be more hesitant to send a wire transfer out of the country, as you have very limited recourse if the deal goes bad.

Just my Dos centavos

Arthur

IS the lume missing on the bottom half of the minute hand, looks like you can see the dial face through the hands? This is probably genuine, but it would fall to a real Rolex expert to tell.

Arthur

Lani,

your watch looks fantastic!!

I had a genuine Tudor sub several years ago, bought it from the original owner who was and old watchmaker/scuba diver iin Australia. Wonderful watch, but Stupid me, i wanted something different and sold it. Regretted that sale almost from the monent i committed to sell.

Thanks a lot for the help. any help is certainly appreciated. i would really like to get this one as close to genuine as possible within reason. yuki sells a dial hands combo that is correct for a 2824 movement (feet placement) . I'm going to try to build a blue dial /bezel .model. If you come across the date wheeel, that would really help me out.

I'm going to give Ubi a shout and ask him for some help with some of the technical questions.

thanks again

Arthur

Switching to "Clean cut' solved the problem on this computer. my computerer at home running wndows 7 never had the "Split box" problem

Arthur

I was planning on using either a 2836 or 2824 movement. yuki hadials and hands that fit the 2824 so that is probably what i will use.

I suspected the MBW 1680 would work. ihave a original polex design 5513, but I want to keep it as a Rolex sub, so I'm on a quesat for another 5513 MBW case.

Thanks for the info guys. Greatly appreciated.

Arthur

I did a pretty extensive review on mine last week with quite a few photos. mine has issues as well. About 7 different things I emailed Helina about after i got and Email from them asking me to do a review! Basically, I lowered the hammer on them about their nonexistent quality control, and the fact that it will eventually destroy their credibility with forum members.

I think what is happening here is folks are reading the reviews and seeing some of the seriously flawed watches they are sending out, yet they keep ordering, everyone hoping that theirs is going to be "that perfect one" and then are very disappointed when it arrives and it's just another flawed watch.

Just my Dos centavos

Arthur

They called me several years ago about a non-Ebay purchase. Seems like for a while anything that wasn't and Ebay purchase was somewhat of a red flag to them. I called them back and told them I bought something, can't even remember what i told them, but they thanked me, and never heard back from them. I think the old Eddie Lee trick was great, as I'm in the Medical field, I always could use "Medical supplies" with no problem.

Just make up something, the Camera Lens is totally OK, actualy it's none of their business, as it's your money!

Arthur

Bumping this up Come'on guys I need more info.

Thanks

Arthur

These are the types of deals that are so scary. Some poor sap is going to pay 2500+ for a fake Rolex with a bunch of crap boxes,etc. but none of the relevent stuff like the swimpruf w/bar code, or the warranty card or the guarantee papers or an invoice from the selling AD are present. The average Ebay buyer has no idea that you can buy that box set for around 70-100 dollars on Ebay and Wala! you have a "legitimate genuine Rolex w/ box and "papers"

This is just what those guys over on TZ UK were talking about in their lengthy thread about Fakes.

Another unfortunate thing is Ebay hardly ever takes these auctions down unless a hundred people email in that it's a fake, or someone from Rolex spies it and one of their lawyers gives ebay a call. Also since Ebay went to the "concealed " bidder ID's it's impossible to email a bidder and warn them off a fake.

Arthur

Lani,

I believe what josetann is referring to is physically bringing them back on a cruise ship. That's what I was referring to with bringing 20 watches in. Cruise customs are very lax as they are trying to process 3-5 thousand folks through in a matter of and hour or so. Got to get the disembarking passengers off as the embarking folks are already lining up to board.

I would never recommend bringing in any more than one, on your arm, through conventional customs like airports. I have seen folks on genuine forums say that there have been cases where customs has asked for documentation on watches that were in someones carry-on baggage. I would suspect that this is a case of someone traveling with half a dozen high end watches. In fact several years ago, when this came up,I was traveling to and from Europe fairly frequently, I got my local watch dealer to make up some invoices that showed serial numbers and date of purchase/price. Customs is only interested in making sure they collect duty on everything coming in to the USA. I never got stopped, but had I been searched, I had the documentation that these watches had traveled out of the country with me and were returning with me.

I totally agree with you about the packages with 2+ watches or several packages coming through in the same batch, etc. You don't want to do anything to raise those Red Flags. And like you and my wife, once your on the list, it takes a helluva long time to get off.She will get checked every time she goes through customs for a while, all because she brough a small package of pork into the USA, never knowing that all meat products that are not cooked and inside a sealed container are prohibited. Certainly not as costly as getting a watch or a primo box of Habanos confiscated, but it still got her on the list. It's a pain in the rear, because now she has to make certain she has 2 hours between flights in case she gets detained. Last October, she almost had to spend the night in NYC because she missed her connecting flight. Luckily she was able to get on another one 3 hours later, the last one out that night.

As you said before one overzealous agent can really create a long term problem for you.

Arthur

I saw reps openly displayed on several islands in the Southern Caribbean, Antigua, St Lucia and Barbados for sure. Like you, I wasn't watch shopping, so couldn't say what the quality was. Probably aren't going to find the "Super reps" like you get from our dealers, but you never know.

If you are buying while on a cruise ship, I don't see a problem, unless you were bringing back 20 watches! More than likely, getting a few of them back wouldn't pose a problem, as every cruise we have been on, customs coming back has been pretty much a "wave through" situation. Lots of folks buy genuines down there and wear them back through customs, not that it would matter.I really believe that customs at least in San Juan PR and Galveston, TX where we have sailed from are more interested in countraband drugs, fruits and food products, etc. There were always a few USDA and DEA guys with dogs walking around the customs line.Snag a porter, give him your customs declaration, and baggage, he will get you through customs and outside the terminal in a flash.

Arthur

I agree with Lani,

Don't worry about tracking, My DSSD showed "left Peoples Republic of China" for about 10 days and suddenly it said "Delivered to local post office" Possibly it was not scanned at POE in New York,or anywhere else down the line until it reached the main PO in Jackson MS. The Post office website says that upgrade information every night, but this time of year I believe it may be every week! Too few good employees, plenty of "Clock riders" and impossible to get rid off the non-productive due to Federal Civil Service Regulatiions. Staff cuts primarily by attrition and reassignment, closed Post offices, all make for mail slowdowns.

Never fear, it will get here........ eventually!

Arthur

Monday is DSSD Day!

Have a Good week

Arthur

Very interesting read. Nice to see that for the most part those fellows weren't spending all their time trying to crucify the rep forums and those who participate.

I do agree with what they are saying however. the reps are getting scarily accurate, which is a good thing for us, as we don't need to sppend a fortune on mods to bring a rep up to snuff. The other darker side which they alluded to is the number of reps that are being pawned off as genuine watches.That is reprehensible behavior, and is truly fraud of the highest order. I would be hard pressed to buy a rolex on Ebay this day and age, unless the seller was known to me, and the watch had and ironclad return guarantee. It would go to a local watchmaker the day it arrived to have the case removed and a movement check.This in itself would not insure it wasn't a franken, but it would be easy to see if the movement wasn't genuine Rolex.

It does look like several of the posters have been frequent visitors to this or other forums. the photos and description of thec SD toward the end of the thread are the new as yet unreleased WM9 Serial M 16600.

Arthur

Is the 24-7030 tube and 24-703 Crown the appropriate Crown/tube for the DSSD? If it is, possibly that would be an appropriate "upgrade to insure water tightness, along with epoxying shut the backwards HEV.

Arthur

I'm thinking about building a Tudor Sub probably a blue dial/bezel insert Tudor 9411 or similar. I have a MBW 1680 that I could use as a donor case. also have a slow beat 2846 movement.

Would this case be appropriate for this project? also anyone have and idea as to where I could find a correct caseback for a Tudor? Also is the slow beat correct for this watch project?

Any help appreciated,

thanks

Arthur

@fakerai

Probably you would get better responses if you start a new topic with this question. That is and interesting question, and as stilty mentioned you can get spacer rings to fit the ETA movements to the case, I would guess all you would change is the dial to a Tudor Dial, and caseback.genuine Snowflake hands will fit ETA's, so only problem would be getting genuine.

Maybe a lot more to it than this, so it would be better to hear from one of the real Rolex experts on the forum.

Welcome

Arthur

Almost all the trusted dealers have fairly similar inventory. you have to go to their websites to see what they have. Very limited numbers of their watches show up on the "Collectors/dealers page. Also read the reviews on the dealers before you buy. You may be more comfortable with one dealer over another. All of them are "Trusted" however some can ship more easily to the EU for instance, some are a little longer shipping, some have a full guarantee for delivery (Should your watch be seized by customs) others have a partial refund plan, some can easily supply spare parts, others can or won't . So read the information, choose what you want to buy and then find a dealer that fits you. Some members swear by a particular dealer, others another, so it's who you feel comfortable with after reading the reviews, etc.

Arthur

Welcome to the forum. Lots and lots of valuable info here. Wheaton is right your going to be like a kid in a candy store !!

Welcome

Arthur