tc670207

Before visiting my seller's fellow apprentice who supposedly knows the inside-out of reps, I have to make a detour to the dial/hands factory to check my 16610 dial back order progress. The dial & hands factory is owned by another fellow apprentice of my seller. They all served the same "Sifu" or mentor but more like a lord. You'll still notice traces of feudalism the moment you step foot into China. When I say "women power" in "PROGRESS UPDATE PART I", I meant it: See how carefully the Chinese sisters were making watch dials in temperature controlled clean rooms: My dial maker admitted she hasn't even begun making my back order yet. The recent crack down on counterfeits being one reason, but the most important reason is that she has enough orders to keep her and the girls busy for a while. There is no reason for her to risk her factory on making rep dials. I asked her about other top grade rep dials she had made and overstocked. I was handed these: Factory super lumed two tone Submariner 16613 dial, hands, and insert pearl: Janeto72, a member here and a dentist up North, recently bought a electro-plating machine making dentures for his patients. He's been experimenting electro-plating 18k gold on TC bezel, crown, and on the middle links of TC 93250 V3. Remember the wrongly engraved 93253 TC 93250 V1 clasp? I'll send some 93253 clasp and two tone Sub 16613 dials, hands, and inserts to Janeto72 to see if a decent Janeto/TC 16613 can be built. My dial maker set up a meeting for me with a very successful rep maker and once a client of hers. She sold a couple of her most talented girls to this man helping him making rep dials. Hoping I could use this man to make my new 16610 dials. We had dinner at a high end local steak house. It was pleasant but we did not reach a deal for my new 16610 dial. I found out whoever is successful in making reps, wants to upgrade business to a new level. They rather take OEM orders from brands than making reps. From this particular maker I received a shockingly beautiful Pam as a gift. I felt for the Pam maker. If I own a facility that's capable making watches this good, I would rather go legit than worry about being caught everyday. Knowing China is a lot different than the West, being caught means one may never see daylight again. Finally I met my seller's fellow apprentice. Let's just call him Sifu L. We spent two days and talked about almost every aspects of reps. This guy does know his [censored], not only about reps but watches in general. This is one of the watches I've been asked by members almost everyday: I will talk about that in Part III.

I want to update my progress along the way. One thing I've been working on is TC's gen spec 16610/16610LV bezel insert. This is pearl with epoxy coating over lume. It looks good. The LV insert I got from my seller is made the same way but it is not the real deal. This is what I want to show you - TC gen spec insert pearl on the right: Swiss Super Lumi Nova C1 + C3: I know you'd ask are we there yet? Sorry, that's a no. I thought this process was done by hand and I could utilize some "women power" from my seller's production line. I was wrong. Take a close look at gen pearl: Gen pearl lume is so well applied in almost perfect circular shape. From my supplier I learned it is impossible for human hands to apply lume that evenly in pearl retaining rings and not go wrong. Going robotic is the solution. This is the pilot run. The technician was trying to figure out the right amount of lume to be applied in the pearl retaining ring. The next step is to apply color on the aluminum bezel insert then piece together the pearl and the insert. I thought applying color on the aluminum insert was easy. No, it's not. My supplier did a pilot run a small batch for me but the result was not satisfactory. I was so angry with myself because I got the whole batch milled off spec in a few degrees. So the pilot coloring process did not turn out very good. Gen surface is flat. TC's looked curved. The numbers and the "I"s are a tad thinner, too. I need my seller's help to apply after process to rectify the problem. Otherwise it will take me another 4 months to re-do everything all over again. My seller is a very busy man. He has to receive many clients everyday so he doesn't have time to deal with this kind of trivia. He introduced me a fellow apprentice of his - a guy who's in charge of rep business in Thailand. This guy supposedly knows the inside-out of reps. I'll talk about that in part II.

I bumped into a problem while I was assembling the LV Type 1 for the RG pre-ordered members. Just when I started with batch 2 bezel assembly, I encounter one that as soon as I installed the bezel insert, the whole bezel assembly seized. I know some members mentioned this when they were installing Clark inserts. I tried that and I concluded they didn't make it because they didn't use proper tools. You just can't use your bare hands to install the insert. You will bend the insert. That was my thought. This is what I use to install bezel insert onto bezel assembly - Horotec press tool: It's a great tool! I installed countless bezel inserts to TC Subs since the beginning I picked up this hobby, never a problem. Now, it is different this time because TC LV batch 2 bezel assembly should be the same to batch 1, but not. I couldn't get it work after I installed TC LV insert the other day. I tried another and failed again, then another and failed yet once again. I ended up installing 10. Among the 10, only 4 of the insert has enough clearance to the retaining ring and turns smoothly. 1 stops in the middle, turning just halfway through. The rest 5 just seized up. Something is wrong! I had to seek a friend's help to get me scans to figure out what's the problem. Here's how the insert should get a clearance to the retaining ring when installed - notice the 0.05 mm clearance between bezel insert and retaining ring? This is how 60% of my batch 2 bezel assembly fitted with gen spec bezel insert blanks: There should be a 0.05 mm clearance. Somehow most of my batch 2 retaining rings were made too thick or too tall. If a insert is fitted in the bezel assembly, they jammed. I manually examined the whole batch to pick out the ones made too thick or too tall. I also had to work on my seller to get him to acknowledge the problem so he will make me good, per spec, replacement retaining rings. Those two tasks took me a lot of time. Apologies of delays to members who placed orders. Now I can think of the question you want to ask me: "If I'm installing a gen insert on a TC LV Sub Type 2, the one that comes without your green LV bezel insert. Is it going to seize up the bezel assembly?" My answer is: If it is gen insert for 16610, I guarantee you will get a good, tight, and works properly fit. If you are installing a Clark, you may have to sand off the Clark a little bit. If you are installing a coming TC gen spec bezel insert, you will get a perfect smooth fit as well. This is what I'm doing for all the members who order Type 2 or no insert Subs from me. I'm installing TC gen spec bezel insert blank on each bezel assembly I receive from my seller, test turning it, make sure it gets a smooth turn, then remove the blank from the bezel assembly. This is my current stupid and simple solution to make sure each TC Sub bezel assembly can perfectly house a gen 16610 insert. I would recommend members who wants to install a gen bezel insert on TC Subs to use a press tool or seek help from our trusted modders on boards. DON'T DO IT WITH YOUR BARE HANDS! If you ask me if I could do it with my bare hands like showed in the video? My answer is "yes". But bear in mind I've been assembling these things for a while. You should at least practice on some cheap inserts before you get to work on the real thing! Cheers to the wicked hobby! TC 10/10/12

I had to eat my over optimistic words of TC Gen Spec Bezel Insert will be 100% Made In USA. Well, that seems not going to happen because I could not find a supplier CONUS to assemble the crystal to the stainless steel lume retainer then lock secure the pearl to the insert. So I had to make an extended stay in China for this. SS retainer rim compare to gen. Corundum pearl cover compare to gen. Lume and setting the corundum cover are the two major challenges. Lume has to match with lume on dial indices and hands. I got help from an expert of lume, who happened to be a neighbor in town. Thank you Charles! I got the lume part covered. The next major challenge - corundum cover has to be set in place right after lume job is done. Otherwise dust is easy to stock in between lume surface and corundum cover. To get it done I had to ask help from my seller hoping he could spare some "women power" off his dial factory. I'll find out if that's possible in my next visit to China 9/5 - 9/19.

That's not possible! I only have eta 2824-2.

Check out TC 93250 V3 Review

This is what I want to achieve. Tight, flat edges, perfectly fitted SEL on TC's V-series Sub case. Yup! This is a gen V classic Sub sans insert. This is what got me into it, The Perfect Solid End Link - Let's do it! started by chefcook 6 months ago. It's a 10 pages long discussion covers almost every aspect regarding not just the SEL, but also every detail of a Rolex 93250 bracelet. This is what we got. I'm so not going to tell you which one is gen and which one is TC 93250 V3. You make your own guess. First feature, the notorious hair line finish. The perfectly machined solid end link with a 90° cut flat edge. The perfectly finished bracelet side edge. The updated curved coronet. Details on clasp. Diver's extension. Engravings in the SEL trench. Final result on a TC LV Sub. I wanted to document the tour to the V3 bracelet factory but eventually give up because I don't think my seller would be too happy about it. So let's stay focus on the project rather than uncovering the Cartel's every little secret. TC 7/9/12

I'm home. There are a few TC Subs I need to finish for members so I'll be slow in response on PM and emails in the following few days. I also want to finish two of my articles: Tour to the dial and hands factory, and Tour to the TC 93250 V3 Bracelet factory before memories are still fresh. They're vital evidences the top league Swiss brands out-source their manufacturing in China. One of a major Swiss brand is so out of the line the entire manufacturing and assembling are done in China, the movements in the watches we think Swiss made and hold value in are actually made in and assembled in Thailand. My seller introduced me to the Asian Clone ETA movement maker. We had a pleasant morning meeting talking about future possibilities of clone ETA. My seller also introduced me to the SA3135 movement maker. We had a night long talk reviewing spec charts and manufacturing how-to. It was pleasant for geeks like us. Edited: I received an email from a fellow member suggesting not to reveal crucial information about the SA3135 V2 because the Chinese Communist Party's protecting umbrella doesn't reach too far in the Western hemisphere. I dig that. I would discuss the movement matter with you later. I met one of my seller's senior fellow apprentice and he showed my his latest project in ceramic: Real cool project!

Thanks to PamLuver80 lend me use this YM for review! This is actually his watch he bought at full retail price without first seeing the pictures or acknowledgement of the specs. I'd also like to thank Fixen. He's the very first member who paid full retail price without asking for pictures and specs the day I was at my seller's office watching his apprentice assembling the YM. If it is not Fixen and PamLuver80, I would probably just passed this YM because price is way out of my league. This is TC Factory Direct Yacht-Master. I call it "Factory Direct" because this is built by one of my seller's apprentices. She has the most delicate skills in watchmaking. I saw her assembling this beautiful piece in just 20 minutes. I would need at least an hour and half to build one. Yet, this little young lady built it with every details attended. The TC Factory Direct Yacht-Master itself is a dream watch. I have known my seller for quite a while but he never mentioned it. If it is not so many members sending me PMs and emails requesting me asking about LV Sub, TT Sub, Super SD, and YM, I would never know such a rep existed. I am never a YM guy, but this YM got my heart tickled. TC FD YM comes with four major parts: The watch, the bracelet at 6, the bracelet at 12, and the clasp comes along with a clasp pin or spring bar that connects the bracelet at 12. Same as TC Subs, the YM uses 2 x 2.0 mm gen spec spring bars to hold the bracelet. This is something none other reps could because using 2.0 mm spring bars means machining the lug holes requires extreme accuracy. In gen watch world, only Rolex itself uses 2.0 mm spring bars to hold the bracelet. The YM bracelet is so well constructed and finished one would get deja vu of holding a gen bracelet. It is solid mid links with mirror finishing on the center links and on the sides of side links. Each link is so well positioned with same gap distance to another. The center links have no play at all it does not move freely upwards or downwards, it does not move even if pushing or squeezing it. The solidness, the heftiness, it just shouts gen when holding it. The clasp has the best coronet I have seen so far. It is forged then hard pressed to the safety buckle. I'm not sure if this is a gen feature? Members who have a gen YM pls chim in! The link screw is covered with a stainless steel tube. It gives the bracelet the smoothness when folding it. The whole bracelet doesn't "jingle" at all unlike all those cheap stuffs we see in GZ. Like TC 93250 clasp, the Yacht-Master 78760 clasp also gives a firm, springy feeling when opening and closing it. TC FD YM comes with TC DWO. It is the same Date Wheel Overlay I used in TC Subs. It has the same gen feature - date print raised high gloss. The crown guard shape is excellent! No other rep makers could ever do it right to make the crown guard with a V then gradually turn to U shape. TD FD YM comes with TC 1.8 mm gen spec sapphire crystal - Rolex part # 25-295-C. It give perfect clarity and the edge is round finished it just shouts gen. TC FD YM 78760 bracelet has great SEL fitment to case lugs. I wouldn't say it has the tightest SEL fitment, but the look, it feels just right with even, flat edges. If one has to be anal, you could see the spring bard head with a back light. This is old school Rolex - bracelet part number stamped on the back side of the first link. TC FD YM comes with brand new gen ETA 2824 movt. The construction is basically identical to TC Subs. Inside the case back stamped MONTRES ROLEX SA. GENEVA SWITZERLAND, STAINLESS STEEL, followed by ROLEXSA and the case back part number 2180. The only thing I have to complain or not like the YM is it has too large the area with mirror polishing finish. I took this YM brand new for taking pictures, not even wearing it once. It already got scratches like it is a scratch magnet. Here's the warning to members who are anal, this baby gets scratches as soon as you tearing off the wrappings. I took every precautions taking these pictures and the YM already got scratches every where. TC FD YM dial is the crème de la crème. I never looked rep YM before not just because I'm not into fancy watches, but also I thought it was impossible to rep the gen YM platinum dial. Platinum texture and color shade is impossible to substitute with other precious metal materials. It is just not possible! My seller did it. I don't know his trick but look at it! Then finally the lume shot. Thanks for reading. 6/09/12 TC

5/30/12 Parcel departed China will land in the US in 5 days, Pls sign up on RWG to keep it consolidated. Thx!

Good to hear!

Folks, Omega had proved the clear coating is indeed sapphire crystal. I'll proceed toward that direction. Now, pls chim in and let me know if the overall shape look right? Thx.

Sapphire hardness is 9. Omega, thanks for clearing this!

Don't think Rolex uses traditional 904L anymore. It's AL6XN nowadays.

C'mon guys are you 100% sure of it? I got an answer from a crystal factory last night they say the kind of sapphire crystal would be very very hard and expansive to make. I mean, c'mon do the math, a replacement insert from RSC is only $35 to $50 depends on which one you go. That kind of sapphire dome would set you back for over $70 it doesn't even add up. My Swiss friend says it's for sure UV820 or she'll let me do whatever I want with her. Man, chim in here! This is the last mile for me on this insert mini project. Thx!

Experts chim in PLS! What is the Clear Coating Over the Pearl Made of? The one Pearl that is on classic Submariner bezel insert. My Chinese friend told me that clear coating is made of a tiny chunk of sapphire crystal. Some on other forums said it's epoxy. My Swiss friend said it's RC Tritec UV820 - a sort of better form epoxy. Which one is true?

Will update soon!

I have never liked the green bezel on the Submariner 16610LV but somehow the green grows in me and I like it much better now. Before I begin the review I want to list the problems with the LV Sub I got from my seller. For these LV Subs I'd just call it TC factory direct LV Sub. They are built by my seller's watchmaker, they are made in China, so "factory direct" suits the description the best. First the original bracelet that comes with the LV Sub is bad. What you see in the picture is one of TC 93250 V2 bracelet. The lug width of the factory direct LV Sub is 20.06, TC V2 bracelet SEL width is 20.13 I couldn't fit the SEL onto the case in the beginning. I had to trim the SEL then get it fit. The fitment doesn't look bad at all. The dial indices of 6 and 9 were crooked I had to bent it to alignment with a steel ruler. An easy task but takes extreme focus. I bought 5 TC factory direct LV Subs back and all 5 have the same issues, bad bracelet, bad SEL, and crooked indices at 6 and 9 on the dial. Once getting rid off these ugly factors, the LV Sub actually looks darn good. The crystal on the TC factory direct LV Sub is a 2.0 mm crystal. It's the same crystal I used on the M-series TC Subs. The clarity is not bad at all. People say rep crystal clarity is not as good as gen I think that's just because gen indices reflect much sharper brightness then rep indices. Top is TC factory direct LV Sub; bottom gen Sub without bezel insert. I will talk about the dial print quality later. Let's take a look at the case and crown first. I believe the watch case maker somehow drilled the tube hole too deep. There must be a reason for this I will ask my seller the next time I meet him. Crown guard shape is alright, and from the back one could tell the watch case is very well machined. The back case teeth shape and depth are excellent! TC factory direct LV Sub comes with TC's Date Wheel Overlay. I said somewhere before, there are thousands DWO maker in GD province, only a couple has the right equipment and skill to make a DWO like this. Coolchu made a post about gen crystal height versus bezel insert. The M-series gen does have the most protrude crystal height than other gen series. That feature is on TC factory direct LV Sub as well. The LV bezel insert is far better than the black bezel insert I have. The pearl is of the right shape, there's a clear coating over the lume. It actually looks better than Clark insert with WM pearl combo. The green color of this insert has excellent match to gen. It reflects a yellowish tint at an angle like a gen. I'm impressed by this as I have never seen one rep maker done it right. Now let's check dial print quality. Notice print raised high gloss? Needless to say a gen feature that doesn't exist on other Rolex reps. TC factory direct LV Sub's crown position sits just a tad lower than gen or TC Sub V-series crown position. My theory to this the case maker wanted to make a case could house also 2824 or 2836. The movement inside is a Sellita SW200. There is no stem tension when operation I'd say the case maker did a brilliant job! Thanks for reading! TC

Do you know gen sub has different profile in each different series? Bazel heights are different as well. M and D series have the most beefy lugs, K and Y have the thicker bezel yet shallower bezel teeth, and finally the V and the random initial series has the most current bezel height an proper depth bezel teeth. The gen V is the only one carries the golden proportion among all it's brothers and sisters.

Order made. Will update picture of TC DWO V2 with Gen date disc in 4 weeks. Order placed for 200 pieces, unit price is US$15. Total sum US$3,000, Paid in full amount. FOB HK. Specs: 1. Placing Indicators as per TC DWO (version 1) 2. Matched base paint color as per sample (gen date disc I provided) 3. Date printing raised high gloss as per TC DWO (version 1) Cheers TC

My 5517 & 1680 has open 6 on 26. I'd say the right one is gen.

Before I left to China, I received lots and lots of member's pm and emails asking about the green Sub, YM, SSD and so on. I've seen almost all the models my seller has to offer in GZ before, I did not find anything "too special" that I wanted to keep or to make a project on it except TC Submariner. Believe me, I have always requested to see the "best" he has to offer or in his power to reach for. This time, I asked my seller again for his top grade, best of the bests, one in a hundreds, fool all one HK made or TW imported green Sub, YM, SSD, and TT Sub. He didn't answer but invited me for a lunch with several of his apprentices in SZ the other day. I stood up, bowed and handed out a pile of Chairman Mao to my seller then received one of each the next day at my hotel. Reviews after I get back home. Cheers TC

I could almost pay off a real nice car out of these bastards. At least you get a mortgage buying a car. With these, the only way of paying is CASH. Damn the little thing!

Love that Granny!