Mike on a bike

No he does not and I do not but will get it for you.

From Alex of "UK Watch Services" trusted repair RWGbz and RWI: Just posted this over at my original home of RWI but thought Id share it here too, you guys have been just as good to me, I have a spare hour or two tonight so I thought id post some of my opinions on the most popular reps that I see across my bench. Ive spent two years now servicing reps from RWI and RWG and would like to think I have built up a fairly reasonable knowledge of them. Some are general views on movements and movements in certain reps. Im not intending this as any sort of guide but more a rough idea of whats going on in some of the reps. Im not taking into account accuracy/ closest to gen etc, its literally just a view of the watch itself. First up the Rolex reps such as Sub, DSSD with standard Asian 2824/36. Generally I find these amongst the easiest of the reps to work on. The Asian clone is pretty decent once serviced and the only real issue (if you can even call it that) to contend with is the fact there is a date overlay on the stock date wheel. This isn't really an issue at all unless the date overlay has an issue and needs to be re fitted or a new one is needed. I used to offer date wheel overlay changes but its such a pain and so time consuming I will only do it vary rarely now should a situation arise where it needs to be done. Other than the overlays they are a good solid rep for the most part. They mostly waterproof too and need little doing to them in this regard. Next the Omega Planet ocean reps - non chrono. I would say these are amongst the worst of the reps and for a 2824/36 they can be a real pain. If they have been bought with a gen ETA in they are even worse. The Asian clones aren't too bad, as before in the rolex's the movement is pretty decent once serviced. The problem with the ten ETA ones is the condition of them, especially under the dial. Most of these I've seen have display backs so the makers do a half decent job of making them look decent from the back. I say half decent because if you look at them with an eye glass you can still see dirt etc and incorrect or lack of oiling. Under the dial on the gen ETA on these reps is often pretty bad. Usually they have many rusty parts and I'm almost certain some are made up from ETA and rep parts. A Liquid metal planet ocean is one of the only reps I couldn't fix - I needed to change parts but this caused more issues with them working together properly and in the end I gave up as I just couldn't work out what was going on with it. Whilst the gen ETA is particularly bad, I dont overly like the Asian clone version either but if I was going to buy one, it would definitely be Asian. The same issues both share is lack of clearance for the hands from the dial - often requiring the hands to be bent upwards much more than would be ideal, and the fact the dials generally dont attach to the movement in the usual way but attach to the movement ring. Not a biggie but its just not as good as securing to the movement itself. I also often see more of these with stripped crown/tube than any other rep. panerais with 6497/8 Not much to say about these really, bullet proof! They do have the occasional problem but they are a simple, well made decent movement. Even the Asian ones are good and in my opinion its decent enough and I wouldn't bother swapping it for ETA if you were thinking of doing it. Panerais with 7750 non chrono These are also half decent. The issues ones are the ones with the faux bridge put over the 7750 movement. The normal issue is with the rotor. Due to this bridge the rotor no longer screws to the movement and I've had a couple of issues with the rotor working loose. The movement itself is fine once serviced and I would like to think would go for a good few years before requiring any further intervention. 7750's with chrono function, seconds @ 9. I get quite a few questions about these and heres my view on them. They are a decent movement, even more so for the money they cost. The issue with them is they are also the dirtiest and incorrectly oiled of all the reps I see. I dont really know why this is but they are never done well. Sometimes I am amazed they have even run at all before they arrive on my bench. My honest opinion is if you are buying one of these you really should factor into the price the cost of having it serviced or buy it with a view that it might only last a few months and you will need to buy a new one or have it serviced then. I know theres exceptions to the rule and some people have bough asian 7750's that have run out of the box for years, but then someone has to win the lottery! In honesty there probably is a fair few that last quite a while but its all down to luck I can assure you. The movement as is from the factory is poor at best. One other issue to mention is hands, on quite a regular basis I have to do something with these. In an ideal world I would just fit new ones but unfortunately I dont have a supply of rep hands on tap so have to make do with what I have. Very occasionally the hands cant be sourced and the only option is a new one although this is rare. The main issue being the center seconds. The hammer slams down onto then heart pretty hard when you reset these and if the hand isn't fitted tight to the pinion the possibility of it slipping is high. This is often what has happens if your hand isn't resetting to zero anymore. Even once serviced I recommend using the chrono sparingly if at all, used as a watch to tell the time alone it should be a fairly good time keeper. Watches with DG 2813's or variants - often referred to as 21j. These are what they are, there often cheap and you get what you pay for. The watch may look decent but I really dont like this movement. Its not particularly nice to work on and if you buy one of these and it breaks, I see your only real option is to buy a new watch. I have done movement exchanges on these but heres the problem - the movements I get in from the supplier are often no better than used in the reps to start with and the cost makes it barely worth doing. Also because the movement I would get from the supplier is likely to need servicing I cant offer any guarantee on it. Ideally I would service the movement I get from the supplier before fitting it but then the cost would be even more ridiculous. I could just do the movement exchange as I get it from the supplier but I dont like not being able to offer a guarantee, if i work on a watch I want to know its leaving me the best it can be. I think That will do for now. In summary with 2824/36 asian or gen ETA Id go for Asian. Its pot luck what you get if you buy gen ETA from a rep dealer. If you really want ETA you would be much better off sourcing an ETA separately and buy the Asian ETA. 7750's, decent once serviced. If you buy it and wear it as is you are asking for problems. If you get a year or 2 then thats very good. Its down to the individual then what you do, buy a new one or sort your broken one. My opinion is to have it serviced early doors but I'm a watchmaker and I dont like dirty movements that are either dry of oil or if they are oiled its in all the wrong places. Dg 2813, buy it, wear it, if it breaks buy a new one. Cheers and thanks for reading, hope this may be useful for someone Alex

Left one thread on this open closed two this being one of them can comment there.

OK closed other two threads everyone can still read and form their own opinions. I am neither pro nor con just to many threads discussing same issue this leads to misinformed decisions. For my part I will say this, whether purchase large or small member new or old I do endeavor to help out. In regard to this happening money was refunded by Toro and mostly likely by an over-site not by design was refunded after it was supposed to be. All else is melodrama these things are bound to bring about, the fact that it has not gotten to Kargo is unfortunate but not Toro's fault he doesn't have it.

Leaving one thread on subject open we are all over the place.

I am locking down two of the three threads on this just to much confusion, everybody can post their views in one place.

As we are aware the QC on movements recently is crap (dealers do not go there, factory issue) dare I say the movements are for the long term time bombs unless you get lucky. So if we want them get them serviced and hope they are not to bad you have a 3-20 k watch for 3-6 hundred. it is my theory that due to poor assembly most of these problems happen on the way to us (again not dealer per-say) this being said I hate dealing with it so buy M2M 95% of the time.

Title fixed and yes do not open get to a smith looks like an easy fix.

"Welcome back Eds :)" +1

Wife thought I was going mad laughing out loud w/ my ear phones on...........

Still puzzled sent almost a month ago, in cyber limbo........................

Look here http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/175896-omg-torobravo-bs-quality-control/#entry1391733

Guys look here http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/175896-omg-torobravo-bs-quality-control/#entry1391733

Looks like it refunded 12/27/14 but for some reason not showing on Kargo's end.

F**ken hilarious !!!!

"Toro, Angus, Josh et al gets their stocks from the same factories.. the differences would be the meticulousness with which they inspect the products before posting them for QC. Some issues, like loose parts in the movement, loose clasps, stuck rotor etc cannot be spotted in QC pics and dealer involvement in the QC process could make very helpful differences." This is correct and these things could happen to any watch any dealer. As far as cargo's issue Toro has responded promtly to me (many times) and it would seem refunded but not showing Kargo's end. Still working on it as of four ,five hours ago. Above being said anyone who has been around knows my position esp. those RWG bz where issues w/ many dealers have been discussed; we are going to have to do one of two things stop buying or deal with it. Again keep in mind we are (RWGs, Geek, RWI) just the tip of the iceberg in rep sales so even discipline may be for nothing. Also remember what perfectionist OCD buggers we are who would you rather sell to us and then deal with mods from the boards w/ problems or just bang them out to unknowns on the internet and hear no more. PS let's not start a witch hunt here.

By the way was at work all day Germans went along with this.......................... surprised.

Watch the commodities market Ken for the health of AU (http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-australian-boom-town-feels-chill-of-commodity-price-decline-1402281061), you guys already took a hit on currency seems a bit more.................... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/australian-dollar-falls-to-new-low/story-e6frg916-1227194074555 "Not much You can do now, it´s too late already..." Spot on.

Get them before parity with USD. ECB expected to inject up to €1 trillion into eurozone http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30915210

Well played one and all!!!

cc33 gets the honor!!! :clap2:

Make it easy!! 1. Legend "Either kingfrog leaves or the rest of us do!" well that ain't gonna happen. 2. Ezio "He's birth certificate is an apology from the condom factory" 3. POTR "If you find us offensive, quit fucking finding us." 4. cc33 "Once upon a time a Frog King lived near a swamp.The end" 5. flyr "kingfrog, his personality is split so many ways, he goes for group therapy on his own." 6. nightwatch "Just a boastful, arrogant guy with poor judgement and a huge intolerant mouth with prejudiced, things drawn up in his mind. He skipped the not-being-a-jerk-about-it-part. 7. pcardoza 8. wiz83 "What kind of pole is short and floppy? A tadpole!" 9. Beachcomber "If we killed everybody who hates you, it wouldn't be murder, it would be an apocalypse!" 10. martijnp "What's green and red? A banned mad Frog" 11. sgtguk " 'tawt a si yug eht' " 12. positivitony "I didn't know frogs had access to computers" 13. Dlf "No chance a frog like you will ever become a prince, you can kiss youre ass goodbye." 14. Big Dazza "Frogs make good soup?" 15. jpz5142 "Because the Frog needs to be made into Fried Frog Legs!" 16. Hyjynx "He's an incomplete metamorphosis." 17. Bomber22 " He was a bad bad kermit we dont Like that" 18. Legend "A true troll is a lot worse than a fake watch" 19. Ezio "if he were twice as smart, he'd still be stupid" 20. fraggle42 "If he had another brain cell it'd be lonely."

Damn missed Nanuq by a minute..........................

Just in from work guys , Nanuq will now use our certified random number generator!!!