archibald

The Mont Blanc is the best looking by far since it looks like it's been designed more recently than 1970, it has the most non watch-geek brand cachet if that kind of thing is important to you, and it's a fairly good bargain, but unless you're going to spring for an ETA 7753 the date gap is going to be a problem. The IWC Pilot's chrono reccomended above would be the best rep, though. The Tag just doesn't do it for me since it doesn't represent a hug savings over the gen like most high end reps do...I like to keep the total cost of a rep and mods about 1/6th of the lowest cost of a gen.

All non-reppable. I agree with what phoband is getting at: in general any manufacture movement that has something--date, seconds, power reserve etc.--in a "non-ETA" place is probably safe from being repped. I bought the JLC master hometime for that reason--big date @ 4:30. Another thing to look at is price--not very many sub $1500 watches get repped except for Tags, and there are some watches they'll never rep well enough to make you wish you hadn't bought the gen because of fit and finish--the Chinese could try for years to rep the fit and finish, dial pattern, and lume color of the Chopard Luc Pro 1 Diver, for example, and never get it right. I like the loer end JLC's, but the entry level glashutte's are great buys--fantastic fit and finish and manufacture movements.

I'm sorry you're disappointed but a couple things need to be cleared up. The short version: The font is perfect. The printing blows away what was on your watch when you bought it, and it's printed to 1/2800 of an inch accuracy to originals. The material ain't paper. But is is water resistant, won't fade in the sun and is as close to anything you'll ever see without remaking an original wheel through the same process--and you'll never see one of those for 30 bucks. The long version: 1) As posted several times in the more than one thread the overlays are vinyl--incidentally, vinyl that was custom coated at great expense for reasons described previously in great detail. 2)You're not seeing bleed--you're seeing a 2800dpi copy of a DW printed in the late 60's and printing 2-3 times as crisp as as what MBW uses. We said many times we were duplicating the old-fashioned process w/o cleaning it up as we certainly could have. 2800dpi means accurate to 1/2800 of an inch. Not to sound rigid, but that's not opinion--it's technology. It's been empirically tested and every piece we tested "passed," thanks in part to the coating (which can't be used on paper or metal, BTW.) As far as a comparison w/ metal wheels: --Metal wheels are brushed, and look completely different in more ways than print resolution. There was a long discussion in a previous thread in which we said we weren't even going to attempt to copy those at this point, but that many original pieces use white DW's. --there is so much variation in the vintage wheels, your saying that there is a "difference" between our overlay and a vintage wheel makes me doubt you've ever seen more than one in person. There may be a difference. But having had several original wheels side by side on my desk at the same time, I know that there is a huge variation in print quality between originals. --Would there be some difference (mainly in the look of the substrate) between originals and 2800dpi copies in a 15X photo through a 2.5X cyclops? Maybe, but unless anyone's chief concern are fooling people in pictures on the Web for some reason, who cares? 3)Frankly, I'm at a loss to see how anyone thought these were going to be printed on metal. We excluded metal early in the process. We posted that. We did one prototype in Mylar as well as one on vinyl. We posted that too. Both looked great, but we decided on vinyl because it was thinner--a serious concern when we found out there were variation in space within vintage cases. I urge you do a project reproducing original DW's from start to finish, including manufacturing methods. I'll buy 100 @ 30 bucks.

It's the raised ink and resolution that gets you--Printing 2 times is 100% doable, but not with a home inkjet and for that matter not w/ the same kind of printing technology the second time as the first. Which printers have the capability to print 2 times within 1/2800 of an inch of the first time? Not many. Plus you need specialized software. Plus you'd need to coat the paper so enough ink sits on top w/o spreading out. Try feeding the same printed DVD label through your inkjet twice and you'll see what I mean. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of anything, and I've already wasted the time figuring this out, but belive me--I wouldn't do it over again. Spend the time and money finding a rep friendly screen/pad printer--you'll be glad you did. If someone really did buy a dial printing machine--I have some .EPS files you might be interested in. Please PM.

As I posted in the other thread, many of the decorated Muller movements are Swiss, although in the past most were Asian. My guess is that when EL arranged for the decorated FM movements they did more than the 6 they needed for the group buy--that's probably what's in the few swiss 2892 reps currently being sold. The decorating is obviouslt done in China, but whether they use the ETA bridges and rotor or swap them out for already decorated asian parts I don't know. I've had 2 verified swiss 2892 reps--both had blued screws. My asian 2892 copy, for some reason, has non-blued screws. Go figure.

I spent several hours a week for the last 8 months of my life trying to find a way to simulate screen/pad printing digitally. You can get 90%, but not with the OP's idea--unfortunately lots of the info in this thread is also half-right, some dead wrong. Big Problem: How you going to do white ink on a clear background digitally? Neil's thermal foil (or dye also) transfer would be a bust on it's own, but can be used in combination with another digital process I'm too friggin tired to explain tonight. Feel free to PM. Illustrator's trace function is a great tool and Adobe's awesome pre-press controls/color management features are essential to get a raised ink effect w/ digital printing (which you can certainly do if you're working w/ a printer open minded enough to do what you tell them to do) but much depends on the media. You'd have to custom coat whatever you use, I bet, although there may be a clear product that would work. I abandoned using transparent films pretty early in the process. That decal paper is not going to work for several reasons, IMO. Most importantly keep this in mind--If your time is worth more than minimum wage you're going to spend more than a good redial before the first sticker is applied. I went through the hassle because a couple people told me it couldn't be done...Unless you're an insanely stubborn lunatic like me, I'd send my blank to everest and fix myself a drink instead.

I used the hold-the-cyclops-flatside-up-with-tweezers-even-w-the-top-of-the-uncrystaled-bezel test and the mag looked dead on to me.

I posted pics of mine above, although I assume it's movement pics you'd like. As far as the movement goes, when the whole bruhaha about the Chinese 2824 broke out on the "white lies" thread, my Casa went straight to the local smith for a looksee, even though I knew these were likely made before "asian ETAs" became as pervasive as the are now. Mine is 100% ETA. Another buyer has verified his decorated 2892 as ETA (I believe the 2892 copy has a "tell", at least on a straight copy as opposed to some combo ETA/copy) If he reads this I hope he posts the pics he emailed me last summer...I don't have them any more. As far as this version of the 18k Muller goes, the point is moot anyway: I tried to buy another so my wife can stop wearing mine, but they are gone aside from the far less accurate Platinum Rotor/Sunset/Casablanca sold by Jos and Andrew.

I'd probably never buy a watch w/ the old asia 7750, both because you have to have the cannon pinion slippage problem fixed as soon as you get it and because it runs @ 18k, but the new asian 7750 needs neither service or boycott in my experience. I'm 5 for 5--all keeping decent time w/ acceptable if not great power reserves. As more reps come w/ movents from asia thanks to ETA's wising up, more of us are just going to have to implement the rule many collectors already follow: When a high end rep is delivered it automatically gets serviced. I bet the majority of us already factor an improved strap into the cost of any rep, and a beautiful strap can cost almost as much as a movement service. Now there's an idea...we ought to boycott rep straps...they turn out to be POSes a lot more often than the new asia 7750 does, that's for sure.

Having done 3 different DW's now, i can tell you a couple of things from painful experience: 1)piecing the font's together from dial shots is a fools game --I ought to know since I'm the fool who's tried it. 2)The movement pic is a good start for ID purposes but it's not nearly high res enough to try to trace or duplicate 3)The font in the above myfonts link is not it, and would take too much tweaking in Illustrator to make it "it." I'm convinced most hig end watchmakers use proprietary fonts--OP, FM, and Tag do not but Rolex, VC, AP, Cartier and I bet Brietling do. That being said, I've gotten my hands on what appears to be an OEM Brietling DW--it looks a lot like the gen version of one of the currently repped pieces, but it's not exact..maybe from an older model? Theoretically, would you guys be satisfied with an overlay that has slightly different 2's and 7's. Maybe ultra perfectionists could wear a different watch 12 days a month?

As your great pics show, 90% of reps need to be more aggressively brushed than they are when you get them--when I see a PAM rep on someone's wrist the brushing is the easiest tell for me. Sure, reps generally have more visible flaws on close inspection but on the wrist bushing is a much more visble tell than a date font or hands. IWW used to do a geat job, but they are either no longer rep friendly or out of business...can't remember which. I'd never try it myself though...with a few exceptions, most of the DIY brushing jobs I've seen don't look all that great. If anyone has a good professional source you'd be doing repdom a huge service if you would post it!

I'm with swivad...This is as good a PAM rep as they make--a new DW overlay and the usual more aggressive rebrush/better strap that all PAM reps need and this one is fool-anyone-but-the-Paeristi good. BUT... not having the car I'd feel like some 30 handicap hacker wearing a "PGA Tour" golf shirt.

I hope you didn't take offense to my post, because none was intended. I think posting on Paneristi moronic in a number of ways. I just thought that person did it fairly cleverly. As with all parody, the non-ironic responsis of the targets is always more fun than the actual piece. What I was trying to say jovially was that Richemont group, the Federation of Swiss Watchmakers, etc. and their undoubtedly well funded lobbying arms in every Western country (and probably China) are doing all they can to stop the replica trade--a few [censored] off watch geeks can't do much to add to those efforts aside from the nasty personal stuff you mention. I would venture to say that we are all on report--the gen makers don't need a Paneristi to find out who our dealers are, and if they can use Google they are well aware of RWG. And I'm sure they're bright enough to know that shutting the entire RWG/RWI/TRC community down, which they couldn't do anyway, would do nothing significant to protect their trademarks. As far as some Paneristi going after people personally--I'm not sure how we get from posting a fake watch on a gen forum to nasty personal attacks online. It seems to me if a Paneristi is dopey and nast enough to go after a RWG memeber, they don't need an excuse. They'll be over here trolling for names as I type. I'm not going to live my onlife life in fear that one of my RWG pals is going to induce some guy over at paneristi to come after my Imageshack account--which I would use only for watches, by the way, if I had one.

The passing of time is probably a trick of the human memory anyway, but what does that or the article have to do w/ the fact that watches are so friggin cool?

Same thing my way, although they tend to be at flea markets/resale shops and usually stashed under the table. My wife and oldest son are avid collectors (not of watches, sadly) but I willingly get dragged around to dozens of flea markets and resale shops a month with the longshot hope of finding some usable parts (a gen PAM dial or 3035 movement that some guy doesn't know he has would be nice) & I'd say about 5% of the time, when I ask if a vendor has any watches or watch part a little tray of street-corner quality reps is produced, although I have also been shown what look to be noobmariners, #2052 111's w/ the old non shaped bridges, and even bought a half decent quatz PP ultra thin for $35 after I laughed at the $100 asking price. I think the idea is probably: I make a decent profit on these. When I get caught I'll get off w/ a warning and then stop.

From ken, 'natch.... But seriously, I think you're not getting a lot of quality/hand craftsmanship bang for your buck either w/ a gen Omega or PAM. Both are very well repped. If I were thinking about to shell out the $4000 for a low end gen PAM or higher end Omega, I'd definitely also look at some of the brands that have better quality to cost ratio--JLC, ML, Chopard, and even GP.

If the 1675 is the roulette overlay it has been custom made for you and is on the way to ubi to make sure I got the red right.

My brothers: the post over @ Paneristi was satire. Alittle too over the top--satire works best when nobody is 100% sure it's satire--but definitely a joke. My favorite post is the last one by the dopey Paneristi who's not quite sure if it's serious or not but he doesn't care 'cause he's outraged anyway. As far as "keeping it professional" goes, this isn't my profession, it's my hobby...and that post over @ paneristi was pretty funny. Plus, I have too many PAMs to care whether or not the Paneristi PAC succeeds in shutting down PAM rep production in China.

That's the one....

Saw a (pricey) gold on black on the bay a couple of days ago--I always wonder if any of those ebay old daytona dials are actually OEM. Have you tried PMing for a lead from ubiquitous, Nanug, or any of the other vintage Daytona experts?

I just tracked the the new batch & it is in transit to Ubi, so we'll be back in business likely by tomorrow evening or Wed AM!

Awesome work!! I'm in for 2 if there are any left. As marco said, any more mag on those lenses and you'd get distortion. I'm convnced that OP's lenses themselves are no better than these. If gens have better mag it's either becase of deeper rehaut or possibly OP's grinding a pocket in the crystal to increase the distance between lens and DW. Which reminds me, has anyone who has recieved theirs tried to replace the cyclops on the "sandwhich" crystal equipped watches? If that works we'd be talking at least 1:1 mag on those pieces. If it turns ou these don't fit the drilled holes I think another run of lenes that do fit would be a huge seller as more watches arrive in that configuration, provided it's feasable to get the crystals apart w/o damaging them...

ML used to do both cheap mass produced watches and a separate luxury line. Over the last 3 years they've moved to try to capture a piece of the resurgence of luxury watches by killing the cheopo line and kicking up the lux line w/ manufacture movements and gorgeous new models based on NOS movements. I think they look great and have seriously considered them. Their new in-house movement chrono is one of the best looking watches out there, IMO.

LOL!!! If that is not a POM, I don't know what is. This guy needs help, and not with respect to his rep collecting. The horror, the horror...