TeeJay

No need for a Sub LV dial IMO, the GMT IIc has a maxidial as well.

That's true, but then it would be a GMT II, not a Sub, and, as folks're so keen to point out, the GMT isn't a diver's watch

The usual for me, here I am using it to time the cooking of a barbecue

I've finally decided on all the variables and details, and have come to a final plan for my upcoming project watch Originally, I had intended to use a no-date dial, but, having gotten used to the feature on my Yacht-Master, I figure it's more useful to have one, rather than to not

The art's a bit crude, but it'll give an idea of what I have in mind

Recipe:

GMTII C case (Case, bezel, insert etc)

DSSD Bracelet (will mod lugs to accept the 21mm bracelet)

LV Sub dial (planning on performing 'matte' dial mod, and tinting 'Submariner' text green)

5517 Hour hand (I'll probably use the second hand as well, to keep a uniform look to the hands)

Hopeful outcome...

What do folks think? Should I green light the project?

Case closed I guess.

E.

PS: TeeJay shouldn't you like the Breitling SOH 46? Great visibility, timeless design... I love mine.

You're quite right, I am rather keen on the Super Ocean Heritage In fact, I'm part way through a project to build something of that overall appearance, using Rolex branded components

TeeJay:

Now, that's what I call a worthy reply...

even if do not agree to all of it.

I live in a Third World country where the big part of the population makes between $6-7.50/day.

They always have (even less before), but life here also is a lot cheaper.

I don't feel like I am running a sweatshop because I pay the going rate to my employees and they seem happy to work with me.

That was entirely the point I was trying to illustrate. To many in the US, UK or Europe, such wages would be impossible for people to survive on. In different economic climates, however, it is the local equivalent of a good wage, and that is something which I have found many 'bleeding heart liberals' quick to forget (or ignore) when they blast 'sweatshop wages', without taking into account that, from the worker's point of view, said wages are perfectly acceptable when viewed against the cost of living in the manufacturer's region, rather than the cost of living in the buyer's region

I see the main difference in selling the brand name, because even if some of the brand name watches are built under those conditions, so are our beloved reps!

Precisely. The only difference being, that there is not such huge profit margin for the rep manufacturers, as there is for the 'gen manufacturers' (well, there probably is a lot of profit, but I suspect that comes from greater volume of sales, rather than the markup on individual items... ) which is why I view the reps as 'fair-trade', rather than 'sweatshop'

As for the Deepsea: I agree totally with you, but have to say that I do enjoy wearing my rep - I just think it's a good looking watch and since mine probably wouldn't survive a slight drizzle I can live with the over-engineered gen.

And yes I do wish it would sell for $2,000, because after holding the gen once in my hands I did feel the "magic difference".

Cheers

E.

Oh I know what you mean, and I wasn't meaning to put the DSSD down as a bad watch, I was just trying to illustrate that it is a good example of 'product image' over any true 'practical applications'. My criteria for what I need in a watch, is a large, clear dial, visible in all lighting condition. A Submariner-sized watch is just about acceptable in that regard, but, could be better (such as the 45mm Planet Ocean). The DSSD, despite having a larger case, does not have a larger dial, so from my perspective, no improvement in terms of dial visibility, over what is already available with the Maxi Dial But, because it's new, that means it must be better, or so the Power of Marketing tells us

After reading this thread, it is clear that this is a touchy subject for some. Perhaps a reflection of the divide between haves and have nots. A point not made clearly, at least to my reading, is the so called value of design or intellectual property. This is part of the reason for a premium for any product, and well, look at what is has done for Bill Gates. I bet the China factories make more Pannies in a year, that OP has made since its first watch. Yet, look at the innovation at OP in inventing lume technologies, TWICE! The marketplace determines the value of this innovation, and since early times, there have been copiers, eager to benefit from the creations of others, at a more attractive price point.

So, let's lighten up a little. We are blessed with the opportunity to hold, modify and display beautiful and creative timepieces. They may not be originals, but they are ours to own and enjoy. There was a time, when rep watches were emerging from Asia in the 80's, when the quality was so poor it was a waste. We live in different and interesting times today.

Couldn't've said it better myself

Thanks TeeJay.

I really didn't want to offend anyone.

But we do live in a world with free markets and everybody can charge for his goods what he feels like,it then is up to the customer to make his choice.

You don't like the $9K Deepsea - OK - buy something different or be smart and get a rep...

Glad this mellowed out a bit, wasn't expecting that kind of aggressive feedback.

No problem, I know that tone can sometimes be misinterpreted from writing. You're quite right about free markets, but that's a real over-simplification of the economics, especially when the actual sources of such goods is considered. I've seen plenty of people (previously) slam companies for using what they call 'sweatshop labor', yet, in the same breath, those same people will happily endorse what they call 'fair-trade' goods, without considering the economic climates where those goods are coming from. To them, $5 a day could be considered a good wage, especially if bread is only a few cents. My view of prestige goods, is that in many cases, the 'prestige goods' are coming from the same sources as the 'knockoffs' or 'lesser quality' goods, when the truth is often, that the only difference between them, is the label sewn in, and the distributors. As I said in the other thread, I view reps as 'fair trade' watches, compared to the AD outlets, which I personally consider a rip-off, considering the nature of the goods, which is why I don't feel that the companies themselves, are entirely blameless. They're the ones creating the image, and yes, in theory, people are free to buy into that lifestyle or not, but, as mentioned, peer-pressure, jealousy, and the desire to 'fit in', are very powerful motivating factors which can drive people to buy into that lifestyle. As you say, no one's having a gun put to their head. That's because it's more subtle than that. It's that unspoken peer-pressure which is the 'loaded gun', and that peer-pressure, is created primarily by the companies themselves, and makes people feel that they have to fit in...

Reps provide an acceptable alternative, as they provide, to a somewhat varying degree, the look, function and feel of the 'real thing', but at a reasonable cost (and still higher than what they're costing to produce) People collect reps for many different reasons, from those who simply appreciate watches, lack the funds to purchase the 'real thing', so find reps a budget alternative, to those who want to try and pass their reps off as gens (and deserving of everything that comes to them ) and everything in between.

The DSSD is a prime case. Incredibly popular watch lately, but, in all honesty, not really worth the gen purchase price. Not even truly functional, given that the watch can withstand pressures which would kill the diver wearing it, so no need for it to be 'that' water resistant I think the only thing which the DSSD has going for it, is the glide-lock clasp, as that's the only truly innovative aspect of the watch. Ceramic bezel... GMT II C has that... HE Valve... Any Sea-Dweller has that... Maxi Dial... LV Sub, GMT II, Yacht-Master... They've got it I think the DSSD is a fine example of a company creating a product purely for profit. Another example, would be the Quantum of Solace Limited Edition Planet Ocean... The very fact that it was the 42mm variant which appeared in QoS, makes the 45mm variant a pretty stupid choice for the LE. But, the folks at Omega know that there are collectors out there who will buy it simply because 'it exists', not because of any actual merits it might have as a watch. I wouldn't buy the QoS Planet Ocean, because I don't like 'merchandise' watches, and, because I don't like the dial surface. Likewise, I wouldn't buy the DSSD, because despite the larger case size, there is no change in dial size, which would be the only thing I would consider a practical improvement, by improving the visibility, so I'd just as soon buy a GMT II c, which would be easier to wear, and have a greater range of functions (and while it is a really nice watch, even then, it's not one I would consider deserving of it's AD Retail price)

As the Red Parrot says "Class Struggle!!!"

I don't really have any personal pictures of home, but I've managed to find some online

I'm originally from a town called Horsham, in West Sussex. I grew up in a house somewhat like this:

This is the Lynd Cross (locally known as the Lynd Creche) and until recently, a haven for underage drinking and picking up jailbait, if that's your thing...

A little further on from the Lynd, however, is this awesome little tea room, which still does awesome scones

This is essentially the town center...:

Not much else I can say about it really, other than I don't live there anymore

Looks like a nice place

I am no snob and I have made good money and then lived from the change left in the ashtray of my car in a house with no electricity.

So I have experienced the ups and downs of life.

But why complain about companies like Rolex and Porsche, Panerai and Ferrari, Breitling and Versace - just to name a few.

Forget all about advertising budgets, executive salaries and cost-value ratio - they are here to make money and if the consumer wants to pay the prize then it is his call; nobody has ever been seen in a Prada boutique forced to buy that new bag with a gun to his head.

Don't forget: without all those companies and their customers who are willing to buy the "real thing" this forum wouldn't even exist, because there would be nothing to replicate.

I have always been very grateful to have the opportunity to see all these beautiful things even if I could probably never afford them, but now I can - at a fraction of the prize.

Ok, they are a bit off here and there, but if I still like what they look like I can have a dozen. instead of saving all year long for just one piece of beauty and if I want it to be more accurate I can try my skills at modding them to my liking and budget.

Thanks a million to all of you who create these aesthetically pleasing items of our desire.

And to all you, who like to complain:

Zip up and smell the flowers....

Where to begin...

The fact that corporate entities exist to make money justifies their overpricing? Personally, I think not. I have always been of the opinion "It costs what it costs" when it comes to price tags, and have no problem with something costing a high price if said product is actually worth said ticket price. If it is not actually worth that price, then it is a rip off, and, while people are still entitled to buy such things if they want, such consumerism, and the jealousy it can create is one of the pitfalls of today's Western Society.

Which, coincidentally happens to be Mrs Nanuq's dream....

But since we're sharing, THIS is where (you know, if any birds of prey start stalking me too) I'll be posting from in the not too distant future given the chance....;

Is that Lake Como?

[Edit to add]

Reading further in the thread, I see that it is

@ Lani:

Go for it, brother, success is inevitable

Careful Teej, some of these guys will rip your head off for insinuating that Rolex are made in China

Btw, your Plati banner looks gooooood

Everyone knows that Rolex are made in Switzerland, but, I don't believe that that's where the parts are created

I thought you might like it Awesome work, my friend

I thought I would put some points down as a newbie to rep watches and thinking about the plus/cons of moral-ish decisions on buying a rep.

Before I bought a rep Omega PO 42mm I thought long and hard about buying it, I

Even cheaper, get a set of dish-washing gloves, and apply force with you thumbs. Works a treat

also has anyone seen a watch like the ceramic ones, but without the ceramic bezel? or does that not exist?

Buy the ceramic one, and a bezel insert off eBay, and swap the inserts over Essentially, you'll wind up with a Submariner in a chunky case (A green scotch pad over the bracelet will also get rid of the polished mid-links, and make it look more functional, rather than decorative )

Welcome to the jungle

Thats where my cousin learned to do tatto's. They make their own guns using a tape deck motor, the spring out of a lighter for the needle, its amazing when you think about it. His work is better than some of the guys I have seen in the shops here that want to charge an arm and a leg for it.

The way I see it, a skill's a skill, no matter where someone learns it, or the tools they use

I forgot to comment the other day, this looks like such an awesome fun watch, I bet your wife loves it

The usual beater, for a casual night out with some of my wife's friends

ur right, cant wait till i can start working on these kinda projects

is this called thread stealing? if so im sorry for the topic starter!

maybe this info would help out someone else in the future

cheers everyone!

Well, you were asking about the same watch from the same dealer, so it is marginally on topic And, as you say, someone else reading might also find the information useful

I'm not a fan of 'mixing brands', but shape-wise, that strap looks great with the Sub That said, I do like how Subs look on rubber

thx alot,

ill do some more research on this, and if i get a definite yes, ill start working on it

its certainly worth it

No problem, bro, I'm always happy to help out

It definitely sounds worth it, I don't think there's anything quite as fun, or satisfying, as owning a watch which you've built yourself, to your own personal specs

It's illegal in some States in the US for the artist to tattoo anything on the neck or hand .. not really enforced.. most of the neck tats ... you see coming out of the Federal systems ...

You won't be allowed in some facilities in Japan if you are tattooed .. the Gumi's use traditional tattoo's from different era's in Japans history for their respective Clan's

I would keep tats off the exposed portion of the neck.. it is all "Gang" oriented .. the day will come in the business world when you will be glad you opted not to.. looks so cool though

L

Thanks, bro, I've always been curious as to your sleeve, as there's often 'bits' showing in your wristies, but I don't recall ever seeing the full arm I've never regretted getting the ink, although when we were trying to find a place to stay in Japan, I was conscious that I had to ask if it was okay to stay because of having tattoos (everywhere I tried was okay with it, but I'm still going to make sure everything stays covered, just out of respect for the culture I figured all the time I keep it coverable if needbe, I couldn't really go wrong business-wise. I didn't realize that some states made it illegal to tattoo those areas. I knew that there were a few states which outlawed tattooing at all, but not that there was a partial ban. Something else I'd heard from friends in the states, was that having a tattoo on the face or hands, is one surefire way of getting signed onto disability, as according to 'The Man', it makes the person 'unemployable' Maybe that's why they made it illegal, so as to prevent giving people the easy option of an easy ride

thx TJ

why do u suspect that?

i think thats gona be my first project, a UPO or a casino royale PO combined with a gen dial and double AR, but i want an asian movement not ETA

It really is just a hunch, but I can't imagine that the dials would be drastically different in size I'm sure if you were to ask someone for the diameters of both rep and gen dials, they'll be pretty close, and, if the gen dial were to be marginally too big, you could always carefully sand down the edge a little to get a perfect fit

If you want to put it on an Asian movement, then the dial feet might well be in the wrong place, but, all you'd need to do, would be to snap them off with the flat of a screwdriver, and put a couple of 2mm x 2mm tags of double sided tape in the center of the movement, line the dial up and press it into place, and it'll be securely fixed in place

I change my suggestion. I agree with everyone here.

You must buy all of them.

TeeJay, thanks for your response bro, it helped me to consider other choices too How have you been?

Thats an interesting opinion about the VCO, I recall way back when you got it, and then sold it to Victoria. A shame as in the pictures it looks awesome and classy, but as you said in reality it can turn out to be quite different. I'll have to think about that one carefully

The Air-King is another lovely watch and very passable too (though I don't really care about passability . Its definitely understated, seldom seen on the boards and even the gen forums I think. Its hard to beat for its simplicity and versatility. However I think the DJ slightly edges it for me, I prefer the case and the bracelet with the rolesor clasp.

The Nautilus HAS to be in black for me I've seen some pics of the white dialled version, and though it does certainly look very nice, I think the black dial is too good

I owned a noob YM for a very short while courtesy of EuroTimez about a year ago. A lovely watch but I'm edging towards a white dial, and at the moment the GMTIIC is the Rolex sports watch for me.

That Discovery just looks too good to me, and your comments about handling it in the flesh is further convincing me this is the one I should go for. Afterall, its not all that similar to the BTR is it?

No problem, bro, and I've been good, thanks All's well, and worries have recently got 'less worrying'

To this day, I still can't explain why I couldn't stand to wear the VCO. It looked awesome, was really well made, and even handling it it was a gorgeous watch. But, as soon as it was strapped on, I'd hear "getitoffGetItOffGETITOFF!!!" in my head

With regards the Air-King Vs DJ debate, I'd say to consider these questions: When would you be wearing the watch? ie beater, dress watch etc, and depending on that answer, would the date be a necessary function? If you wouldn't be wearing it enough to need the date, I'd say go with this Air-King...

If the date is a necessary function, then I'd suggest this DJ...

Alternately, there's also the white-dialled variant of the DJ you've already shown, which, with the larger markers, is slightly 'sportier' than the 'stick' markers...

And, if you wanted something which had a really elegant look, there's this variant with a Tuxedo Dial

With regards the case and bracelet, Tony has a load of DJs for sale, so there's pretty much every combination of case/bracelet available, and, if that fails, he does sell the bracelets individually as well

As for the Discovery... Here's a shot of me trying on the gen... I think it speaks for itself

Whatever you do, don't get white Explorer II rep. The hour markers are inaccurate grey and it completely kills it. It's a HUGE flaw.

Discovery is actually 43mm, gen and rep. It's a bit smaller than BTR. The bracelet is different too... BTR bracelet has "rounded edges".

White dials aren't probably for everyone, but Discovery is the coolest white dial watch I've owned. And maybe the most accurate replica watch ever.

Glad to see the literature being put to a good use

Bro, so many options...

The Discovery is an awesome watch. I tried on the gen a while back, and loved it. I am constantly in two minds as to if I should buy myself one. On one hand, I think "Yeah, this is an awesome watch, I really like it!" But, then I also think... "It's not the project watch I plan on building... Would I wear it day in day out, and if not, I couldn't justify the expense...". If you want something different to what you've got, then the Discovery is the way to go... I'd suggest not going with the VCO, as, given your tastes in watches, although you might like pictures of it, I don't think you'd actually like wearing it (exact situation I found myself in...)

I'd suggest a couple of other watches for your consideration... PP Nautilus with white dial... And rather than a white dialled DJ, how about a white dialled AirKing instead? If you weren't worried about it being a purely white dial, how about a Yacht-Master? I'm really liking mine, it's such an easy watch to wear Best of luck with your choices