Grimlocktime

I have a very large 201 pictures archive. also by all pam models and versions since 2003.

some show this what you've written.

this is the effect which comes through the reaming with a reamer.

for a lower hands-fit on the canon pinion.

some of the pictures don't show the lower hands-fit on the canon pinion,

not so flat with the canon pinion tip, but also this hands have the reamer effect and show the brass basic metal in the hand tube.

basically hands will be punched from thin brass strips, also with hand-tubes

low-pressed.

only hands which get the blued color cornflower blue by an oven with 290 degrees celsius will be punched from a special ferric, also with hands tube.

Note: only our FGD hands are manufactured over helen-arou by a hong kong hands company. these hands have no lume inside.

our special lume was developed and filled by rc tritec in switzerland.

regards

rolli

As always Rolli, you are totally correct! I don't have a staking set, but if I did I would adjust the tube on these HR Hands. They are a fraction on the small side. Regardless. I like how it is possible expose the brass with a little sand paper!

You're a madman... And I love it!

So wonderful DSN has moved to a new glass supplier.

This was always the weakest part of his watches.

I prefer detail oriented;)

V you won't be disappointed with DSNs new crystals. They are gorgeous!

In my haste to assemble my Rolli/FGD Logo dial, There were a few details I skipped that I immediately regretted.  It's one of those things when you build a watch that you know you can do a little better if you spend some more time, but skip because you need to wear your watch yesterday:)

For me, it was the following:
 - Swap out the David Wong crystal
 - Another polish on the rehaut
 - finally, tweaking the Rolli FGD hands to get them closer to gen

 

First up the crystal and rehaut polish... The David Wong crystal I used for my build is respectable... It's not low quality at all, but there are those times were you catch a haze you can't wipe off or a reflection that seems too strong.  I heard from DSN that he has a new source for crystals that he is using on his latest watches.  DSN is now selling French made HIGH quality sapphires.  The proof is in the pictures below.

You can test the clarity of your crystal by shining a bright light against the edge.  Like magic, any cloud or haze inside the crystal becomes immediately evident.  Just to give you an idea the David Wong crystal that looks like this on the watch (Not bad at all from most angles)

Looks like this when you test it's clarity

 

Now here's the DSN.  It's like a piece of window glass

 

I don't say this lightly; It's easily as good as the BM C3 crystals and approaching OEM quality.

 

 

Next up the hands. Now let me preface this by saying, I'm really getting into minutia with this one, but that's the fun part right?  Gen Pre-V hands are made of brass.  Some detail having to do with how they were manufactured produced an effect where you can see the exposed brass around the cannon pinion.  See these Gen photos:

 

 

 

 

Coincidentally the Helena Rou hands that FGD used in his projects are also brass, but the tube of the minute hands is painted, not allowing for any of the brass to show through.  With a little ingenuity, it's possible to recreate this effect with your FGD hands  All you need is some fine grit sand paper

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't something you'll see on that wrist that often, unless the sun catches the brass just right, but that's not the point, is it?

 

Thanks for reading

They are easily removed from the back side of the bezel.  No one sells the pearls that I am aware of.

The lume or the metal ring?  Can we see a picture?  I know of a guy that was selling a Noob V3 for parts, That's about your only route for sourcing a new bezel.  From there you can easily press the new bezel on the case if you have the correct tools.

 

Here's your best case scenario... Find a used one with a good bezel, swap the cases and re-sell the old one. Could potentially cost you nothing in the end.

That's the really cool thing about these dials. They are finished with the same UV 820 varnish as the gens. Based on some research I've done, I've learned that this is a natural plant based resin that is not UV resistant. It will dull as it age over time as it is exposed to UV light.

Before these Rolli and FGD Dials were introduced, the best dial available were the Southy "museum grade" dials. He only made a handful of these beauties, and im lucky to own one. One of the key features on these dials is the glossy varnish fill and the dull tritium glow. I've never held a gen dial, but I know a few folks on HF that have and they swear this Southy dial is spot on to gen in terms of finish.

Long story short, the glossy indices look is meant to reproduce the look of a new dial. And I must say that if Southys dial is considered accurate, then the Rolli/FGD dial is the most accurate ever made.

Also it's important to note that the gloss isn't evident all the time. The light has to catch the dial just right for it to shine.

Rolli I think Esco is probably talking about The tritium 001 or 004 or even the 026? These will be in hot demand, probably more so than the 000.

Thanks gentleman. I am proud to wear this beautiful watch. And youll never guess where I learned all this neat stuff... On RWG.

Rolli and FGD (aka GPFModDep) have been collaborating on dial projects for the past few years.  Project after project has resulted in high end Swiss quality dials, with no detail or expense spared.  So, the question that everyone kept asking was... When will you be taking on the Pre-V dials?  The wait is over.

The first preview pics on RWGForum delivered more than I expected. 

 

 

 

A couple of important notes to consider about this dial. It is not a Chinese replica dial. It is made in the same dial shops that make parts for other Swiss makers. It's lumed with authentic RC Tritec lume (I've done a time elapsed test against gen lume and the Rolli dials match in duration of glow power). The quality and finish is every bit as good as gen. The lacquer fill on the numbers and indices is the same used on the gen Pre-V dials; UV 820, a natural resin lacquer that will dull and age over time, just like the gen dials. Finally, this is the most accurate Pre-V dial ever made and the first one to combine accurate number shape with accurate serif font.

I ordered the day after the original thread was posted and a week later my dial arrived.  Luckily I had a Unitas low beat 6497 waiting...

 

 

There were only a couple of problems with the movement.  First, this was no time for the old nail clipper trick on the seconds pinion... NO WAY.  The wheel must be swapped.

 

 

It's important to note that you should remove the pallet fork before swapping the seconds wheel.  This will keep you from damaging the pallet jewels when rebuilding the gear train.

 

 

 

Much Better!

Next the mounting screw notches on the old school bridge needed to be enlarged to fit wrist watch mounting tabs

 

 

Time to mount the dial

 

 

Check out the reflection of the light on the dial.  This shimmer is from the bead blasted anodized surface.  An amazing gen feature, no Chinese rep maker would ever touch.

 

 

Time for a lume shot

 

 

Next up, the case.  The genuine Pre-V case has more than a few hallmark features. 
The fat, stubby lugs
rounded and heavily polished cushion shape
Polished rehaut
Fatty CG body

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, there are only a few rep cases that can serve as a good platform for this build: The David Wong, or the Noob111J, 111M, or 111N

I picked my 111M out of the parts box for the reshape.

 

 

Screw you Strap Notch...Goodbye

 

How can I forget about the crown.  One of these is gen and one is a DSN with a little extra polishing.

 

The Gen cushion shape is not too hard to achieve.  Gentle sloping of the edges and corners is all you need.  I achieved this with a soft nail file from a beauty supply store.  BUT... There are a couple of important features.
To be accurate to get you have to drill the lugs to 1.6mm.  This means you have to use WSO lug bars and screws.  DSNs lug bars measure around 1.75mm... too large and believe me you can see the difference if you look long enough;) 
The other important point is to not forget to soften the edge between the lugs.  Most reshaped neglect this feature.  But if you study enough gen pictures you will see this edge too is rounded and polished.

 

 

 

Finally and perhaps most important is the Pre-V CG.  It is noticeably more "fat" than the current historic CG. The absolute best readily available option is to use the DSN body along with the Sead A-F CG lever.  DSNs new CG body is .10mm skinnier than his previous version, but it can accept the Sead lever with no modification. Quite nice!  You'll also note a concentric spin finish on the CG pin.  This is a distinctly Pre-V way to finish the CG pin. 

 

 

 

Final finishing touches.  The David Wong caseback is one of the  best ever made.  But they all came with no paint fill.  Let's get out some Tamiya flat black lacquer....

 

And now some paint thinner to rub back the surface paint... Perfect.

 

I can't forget about the ULTIMATE Pre-V buckle from one of the best craftsman in this hobby.  Elias on Homage Forum

 

Some wrist shots...

 

 

 

 

 

Time for a new Pre-V team photo

I hope you enjoyed the read and the pictures as much as I enjoyed the process!

This is a sad day in rep land.  The number of epic T dials still available reduces to ZERO. 

Perfect for Rollis new dial!

This one of your legendary posts w0lf. I knew I had read that info somewhere, and sure enough that was the post. I can't thank you enough for passing that info along to us.

I also agree with your assessment that it looks like a combination of H3 CP and H2 hour wheel.

PreV hour wheels are nickel plated brass.

I'm not sure why the incorrect information is being attributed to me, but I have specifically stated that the PreV hour wheel is nickel plated brass. Gold plated / yellow brass hour wheels appear with ETA6497-2 derived calibers, beginning with PreA pieces.

Please refer to post #8 here: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/155538-111-modified-movement-complete/?p=1196556

I know the modern Panerai watches use a gold plated hour wheel.  It's one of the basic tells of today's replica watches. 

 

But the Pre-V...  I can't find any good images that show what kind of hour wheel they used.  I think silver is correct.  Can one of the long time experts confirm?

 

 

Sunken date= 7750

Correct date= 7753

Please also note that lighting and resolution will play with how thick the numbers appear. It looks like you are comparing a hi res image with a lower res image. The low res rep image appears thicker due to these issues.

Rolli for me, there is no question. I want a

203/A

201/A non matching.

Pre-A 001/004 T SWISS T

Please make them with fat indices!!!

Do you have any sample pictures to share?

I smell a project coming. Let me get out my hammer, chisel, and drill press to tear that date wheel out...LOL

As a full price buyer of Rolli's 002A project... The line begins behind me;)

These look correct, let me add a few subs to this.

PAM064, PAM087, PAM243- 29.5

PAM024, PAM025, etc...- 32.5

Bumping a zombie thread....

Just scored a minty Jules Jurgensen with the same gen date wheel....awesome. Did anyone ever make copies of this?

This just happened to me on a Pam127 that had a loose dial. When I would flip it over the dial would lift slightly and put pressure on the seconds hand, stopping the movement.

Not sure if this is your problem, but worth a look.

Bumping a ZOMBIE thread!!!

Does anyone have these pictures???

I purchased an amazing ETA 2892 with a 9040 mounted and now I need to switch the date wheel.

I humbly come to the home of the Old School masters seeking knowledge!

Rolli is Back!!!  Very excited to hear from you.  Time to sell some parts so I can have pockets full of money for your great dials.  Please tease us with some Pre-V dial pictures! 

I have seen these under $4K.

Patience will lead you to a great deal.

Rolli, I thought I would bump your sales thread:D

Any updates my friend?