KB

Through-out this discussion I have been mindful of the tragic situation that happened in Nanuqs family.

I have stayed right away from it out of respect to Nanuq and the exemplary work he has done with the young men in his scout troops.

However it was just noted 'Quote' "If Grandfather had his pistol handy when they forced their way in, I guarantee it would have ended differently."

I wish he had, but not even those with guns would usually answer the door with that weapon in their hands.

Ken

I find this very interesting too.... http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-the-debacle-of-gun-control/2013/01/14/313e4c84-5e78-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_story.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

Ken

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nra-has-sold-out-to-the-gun-industry-to-become-their-top-crisis-pr-firm-2012-12

Ken

Yes understood and no argument about that, however listed like that suggests that Germany has a bigger problem with mass shootings and gun deaths than the US

Ken

The Worst K-12 Shootings in History

 

#1- Sandy Hook, US in 2012 - 26 victims (20 children, 6 adults)

#2- Dunblane, Scotland in 1996 - 17 victims (16 children, 1 adult)

#3- Erfurt, Germany in 2002 - 16 victims (2 children, 14 adults)

#4- Winnenden, Germany in 2009 - 15 victims (9 children, 6 adults)

Two in Germany, and one in Scotland, both of which have much more strict gun control laws. In fact, at the time of the Scotland shooting, only .1% of the population owned a gun in that country."

 

 

 

Apparently, making it difficult to access a gun does not prevent mass shootings.

Nanuq that is a classic case of using distorted stats.

I think a far more accurate stat would be total mass shootings not just those associated to a certain weapon.

Ken

Joey has it struck you yet that no one but yourself sees you as the only informed participant in this debate.

Most of us have completely differing opinions than yourself, if you gave them some thought it is quite possible you might learn something.

Ken

Monash University 

Been busy Googling I see.

Well for one I have stated from the start that it could still happen here, however in the above case there was 2 deaths in Monash, the main reason for that was the perp had a simple hand gun.

It does however raise another issue, we have excellent mental health care here in Australia and the shooter was mentally deranged so better mental health care whilst being an important social issue will not deal with mass shootings...only making it difficult to access these weapons can do that.

Ken

That is completely inaccurate. The NRA is funded by gun owners, some of whom may sell firearms or defend their homes/businesses or hunt or shoot for sport or just collect guns. According to the NRA's own stats, the majority of its members are simply private citizens who own guns.

Sorry but the NRA is 56% (and growing) funded but arms manufacturers, membership makes up the other 44%

Freddy no school in Australia has armed guards what they do is go into lock down if an intruded enters the grounds, this is not armed intruders or even angry looking people but anyone who should not be there.

No it is not foolproof but then we do not have these mass shootings at school, also like mentioned before, an armed guard will probably just be the first one shot.

Ken

I see kbh has different figures than mine but the fact is the NRA is the voice of the manufacturers and only speaks for gun owners if they are in accord with those statements.

Ken - I see your point, which is the same 1 I used to make myself. The parents of those kids in Newtown thought they were safe too. Trouble is that we are all safe...........until we aren't.

Freddy I hope this doesn't sound insulting as it is not meant too but honestly it does seem a case of jumping at shadows.

Yes something like Sandy Hook can happen again even here in Australia but I can tell you 2 things 1. If it does ever happen my owning (or not owning) a gun will make not one bit of difference 2. If I want to keep my daughter safe I would do far more good teaching her safe driving when she gets a licence.

Ken

Mike what you are saying is a very leading question because our own Prime Minister gets the same kind of protection and yes she should.

Do you feel the President should not have that protection?

My family simply does not need that kind of protection, you need to be an Australian to understand that, but in 50 years I have never been in a situation where I have said "Gee I wish I had a gun"

Ken

There is a whole of difference from imagination clairvoyance,

Come on this is a ridiculous attempt to try and assume the 2nd was meant to cover every weapon that was to come.

And it is still based on one sides reading of the 2nd.

Ken

This thread is just getting looney..Everyone deserves the same protection as the head of state...no they don't that comes with the job just as the head of your bank makes 10 X your wage.

The Bad thing involving Senator Feinstein (if you go back a few pages) is the gun lobbyist who want to hang her for reintroducing a bill that expired in 2004, despite the fact that Half of all mass shootings in the history of the USA has happened since it expired.

To believe the founding fathers would have invisualised machine guns, grenade launchers etc etc when when the drew up the 2nd amendment is just so far out there it doesn't deserve comment.

Come guys if you want a debate then debate with facts.

Ken

Ken...I see that the president deserves to be protected for obvious reasons. But don't law abiding American citizens deserve the same protection? For home Invasions and the like?

 

What do I see Is a shit load of hypocrisy. Many anti gun lobbyist have guns to protect themselves. But that's because there afraid of the gun nuts

.

Mike

Mike you see the President of the United States of America surrounded by armed Secret Service agents, just like every head of state is protected by their own people.

The reason is obvious these guys can and do get assassinated, it is a whole different discussion from what is going on here.

Ken

That a hell of a lot of what if's...a hell of a lot

Ken

Joey you need to stop saying 'I covered that earlier' as if you are the go to source for information.

The fact is your definition is wrong.....

all fun conversation but still doesn't explain 1) why do we need high capacity magazines and assault rifles on the streets 2) why can't we have reasonable regulations like background checks (stopping the absurd that goes on in gun shows), safety requirements (safes, training, etc.) and registries that can help law enforcement to trace stolen guns?

This is why I put up that Huffington Post link, regardless of the medias political leaning It does state the NRA are opposed to the above regulations, that they in fact want nothing that would impede anyone (even ex crims) from walking into a gun shop and buying what they want....is this true or not?

Ken

No one has mentioned yet why they would overthrow a democratically elected government instead of voting them out.

Unless of course we are talking about a minority who believe they the majority are wrong.

This is not Syria, Egypt or medieval France we are talking about here.

Ken

Many members actually get cards which can only be used once, can't remember what they are called but your bank can issue it.

Ken

Umm Freddy....

Actually, according to law enforcement, it is usually very angry individuals who commit mass shootings. And they generally go after what are termed 'soft' targets - locations where the perpetrator expects little or no armed opposition.

Ken

I'm not aware of which countries have banned all guns, most certainly Australia has no such ban.

Ken

Um Mike you do not see the problem with that pic?

Ken

Joey right now there are powerful gun lobby groups in America putting the legal teams together to attack any and every slightest suggestion of gun control to come from the Biden talks, they are not even waiting to assess what the findings are.

It is also a ridiculous notion to point out this could happen again in some other country, of course it can and most likely will, the whole point of this discussion is that the USA is in a complete league of it's own when it comes to gun deaths.

And the gun owners seem to be split into 3 groups 1. Just don't touch my guns 2. Don't ask me I vote for NRA 3. Put it into the to hard basket.

Ken 

Freddy that's a joke surly....do you really believe the only way to fix this is NRA's lets turn this place into Beirut policy?

Ken

Ok lets all just stop for a moment and look at this from another angle.

This thread was started as a defense of gun ownership in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings and it has been defended for the past 18 pages.

What I would like to know is this.......what will America do, what will the gun owners do in some kind of attempt to see it doesn't happen again?

Ken

Oh I am actually very aware of it Joey but when I said I found the article interesting I was hoping someone could show some form of solid discrediting because it all has a certain ring of truth to it.

Ken