Victoria

I'd rather talk of Pierce Brosnan's John admin!! Corrrrr! (EDIT: LOL! Again...)

We had just, finally happily, moved on from politics in this thread, WT. And now you come. Come on, help us out. If you think I don't want to riposte too, you're wrong, but some folks know when it's appropriate or not. Let's talk about watches...

A defence of TeeJay: He presents his points in coherent sentences, unlike many others... He has shown himself honest and generous in other occasions (to me personally, though he may be embarrassed to read this). And at heart, I think TeeJay ONLY cares for this board's well-fare. That to me, isn't a crank. He just has very stiff principles, and like FxrAndy apparently, has put his foot down about these dealers. The difference is that he wants us to put our feet down too. But that doesn't make what he's doing dishonourable. Tiresome, but not dishonourable. @Corgi: I just echoed a lot of what you said about owning reps, in the DSN Fiddy thread!

But no opinion is unbiased in the rep world. If you mean that they have a stake in continuing to tout Andrew/Joshua/King/Angus for whatever reason, such as monetary or kickbacks, then I would have to have that proven too. That's important, but still second-hand information from a newbie with 16 posts to his name. I'm an Historian. I know first-hand sources are of utmost relevance and importance to any retelling. This link below, quoting directly from Joshua, is much more damning: "Guys .. dun be a Pug", says Jos Nana. (Now I know where that comes from, Puggy!) But if you read closely, he clarifies that someone has used Madison Avenue trickery in advertising their product as "Super", so he had to go one better and call it "Outstanding". I presume later on it became "Ultimate", today, the sine qua non of rep descriptions. (Amusingly, there was a thread on RWI where it was claimed for Ruby that she didn't know what an "Ultimate" was. That perhaps her English was substandard, or that she simply wasn't in the know, because some dealers use different terms. Come on) What I read is that Joshua claims only 4 dealers have a certain model of a certain marque. They have tried to outdo themselves in their description, though basically it's the same 2 models -- one Asian, one Swiss. I don't want to be trenchant about this, but this doesn't amount to a cartel, IMHO. It's not even sharp business practise, though it is close, I'll say that. But until someone can prove to me that these 2/4 people have in some way closed off supplies in the whole of the rep world, so that they form an indissoluble monopoly where they have price-rigged all watch brands, then that is not what is being claimed -- a cartel. That is a partnership. And a loose one at that.

"It was a run-by fruiting!" (EDIT: OOPS! I realised this might lead to all kinds of interpretations based on Harrelson's pose, LOL. That was a quote from Mrs. Doubtfire, which had an eerily similar scene of Pierce Brosnan in a tiki-hut bar)

RIMSHOT! My God, a lot of people have said that. And moreover, a lot of RWGers know who Tamara de Lempicka is since I've had two PMs and some comments on threads, about her. How can I have expected anything else from you guys?

You forget that I'm one of them! There is a famous call-girl in Palm Beach who caters to rich old guys who can't do much any more, rompwise. One old chap, whose name most of you Americans probably know, apparently likes for her to wear a yellow mac (a raincoat) and pretend she's jumping rain puddles. That's it. He enjoys himself, and she leaves with $500 of his money. When I found out about that, and met him later on at a party, I found it really really hard not to laugh in his face. And I made sure I was never left alone in the Breakers Hotel lift, afterwards... Moral of the strory: a man is great to a woman, until he's proven a creep. After he's proven a creep, he can never be great again. EVER. So RWG guys, if you have a fetish, that's great. Just never ever tell me, okay? Unless it involves Admin and some wesson oil.

Like dry water, this is a contradiction in terms. The most you can ask businessmen, whose bottomline will ALWAYS be their pocketbooks, not OUR best interests, is that they stand behind their products or services. Maybe I was born cynical, but I automatically expect people in business to fudge, and yes, sometimes to lie. Armed with that knowledge, I go in search not of the honest broker, but of the professional one. I think your points are very well-taken about not wanting to be suckered into buying misrepresented items, and of course, that's the one point in this "cartel" talk that all of us agree upon. But the truth as I see it is that neither of the gentlemen, to use Clive's eminently well-chosen phrase (Andrew is one, 100%) are boy scouts. They're businessmen. Let's use that information wisely.

OMG! I would be devastated, Clive. Such a beauty. Yipes...thankfully, only crazy foreigners walk around in the Floridian heat. We go from a/c environment-to-a/c enviroment. NICE! I think have the same strap, if it's the pigskin one also bought from a member here, and which I have worn. It felt really awful after my leather straps, thick and crusty. I'll buy that Lord Sheraton wotsit, and treat it ASAP! Mind you, I hang around Waitrose's, not Tescos. (Yes, potentially going to London this December. Nice memory!) That's what I told Elliot, but who am I to argue with the great Fabrizio? P.S.: Isn't it odd that the best cremes, and leather treatments come from Britain? In the last century, in the Victorian Era, the Russians had cornered the market on the best leather care, being justly famous for their hides. But though Italian leather is the best in the world, I cannot think of one cream or conditioner from there, like Meltonian (which I had heard of) and this Lord Sheraton (which I hadn't).

There is a gentleman on the forum who knows the ins-and-outs of the Guangzhou rep watch business, who says it's not a cartel. However, from what I am led to believe, Andrew was brought into the business by Joshua, and they have remained very close associates. Might this be in line with what you call a cartel? Extremely pal-sy Associates working (for some) in cahoots with each other? If you back up your statements with a source, or some kind of reference, people would begin to meet you half-way, TeeJay. Until then, it's speculation, not to say something else.

Just got my first water stain on of all things, a PAV 90 strap ($269)... I actually did this in the line of fire, since I was taking pics of my PAM 111h for a future Wrist-Check. I had the bright idea of holding a Starbucks plastic glass, and accidentally spilt water on it when taking the photo. DOOFUS Vic. Elliot told me to use Meltonian Neutral on my Paci straps, saying that Fabrizio (the head leathermaker of the MP range) suggested it as the ONLY recommended leather care paste for their straps. In fact, he said that Fabrizio recommends not using anything most of the time, since they are meant to last. I finally sourced a small jar on eBay, and when this happened, applied it on the stain. Nada. So, just reading Ryyannon's crazy thread now (love it!), it led to thoughts of craziness. What if I took one of my long fingernails and scratched ever so lightly, the stain out? Gulping hard, because I hate seeing that stain there...IT WORKED! Stain gone, buffed lightly with a cloth which TWP sent me. What other stain solutions have you found? NOTE: I hate the texture of waterproof straps, so Lexol is out for me, but I heard that's good in general.

Agreed. Someone even linked to RWI, showing how the reps are getting better and better. I've said this before, but there is no way to justify wearing a rep watch as much as I try. I'm doing something wrong, and I'm doing so because I'm cheap and want LOTS, instead of the few I had before. Sure, there are a lot of people who have many reasons (they have gens, and are worried their watch may be stolen, etc. etc.), but I'd say about 90% of rep collectors can be described thusly. Their attitude also stems from the fact that Panerai is a cult watch. It says something about you to be able to afford this watch, yes, but more importantly, TO KNOW about this watch. And I think that most people who appreciate watches, I mean really and truly appreciate the creativity and the skill it goes into making one, cannot stand the fact that their loves are butchered by hacks in some workroom half way around the world. Me, I can't afford a Caravaggio, Klimt or even Hockney. Some people don't mind putting up posters of reproductions of their works -- but I don't. It feels ...weird. Strange, I know, and I'm fine if people disagree but in that sense I can understand where the Risti are about, when they sniff their noses in the air about rep watches.

Nice! The Lago Como/Dolomites having been one? I HAVE NEVER wanted to go to Madagascar. There is a reason, and it involves one of their most abundant "things" on the island. *shiver* But my God, scuba diving for Whale Sharks?? SSsurfer, you are Superman, and I love it! Sucks, dude. Oh geez, that's as bad as when he misspelt Officine...or was that Panerai? Heh, it's called a "fly"? Thanks for adding to my knowledge base! I should really take a look at your guides in your .sig. I understand you plenty well. And you are VERY mistaken about your English. I used to be an ESOL instructor, and you are streets ahead of my students there. But trust an Italian to want to use his whole body to convey a message. No wonder Orianna Fallaci refused to interview people on the phone! I won't, don't worry. In a sense you are right. And although you are correct in thinking that comes from a certain social background, let me tell you that I have found people are even more judgemental when they are middle-class or working class. It's just that in those situations, they cannot really do much to harm you, because the higher you go the more it is about power. Cosa pu

I just finished reading the replies on THAT thread. So, if you will permit a reply to Offshore since the thread is closed. No, I'm not suggesting a potential merger.

She's beautiful. Reality is truly where dreams are made into facts.

"Reality is the name we give to our disappointments." - Mason Cooley AH! Perhaps you meant: "The reality is more excellent than the report." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

FRIDAY My PAM 210 base from our very own TWP, on a very lovely Strap Culture strap -- the Historic Brown #2 for their Radiomir collection. The base PAMs are, IMHO, more choice than their more intricate ones. In fact, the more GMTs, subdials, seconds hands, and what-nots a Panerai watch has, the less appealing it looks to me now. What a difference from just 2 months ago, when I thought the exact opposite! YARRR!! SATURDAY Only RWG knows the story, but this is my Davidsen Fiddy on black, stitchless Savage (of RWI) strap. And a friend. And a BFWP because he sometimes sleeps with me. Ka-ching! M-I-C ... K-E-Y ... F-I-D-D-Y Me looking up the Voisin roadster on Vehix.com. Wow, bad resale value. I think I'll get more on the Auto Trader. SUNDAY On Sunday, I actually have a rum do, so I am trotting out the Cartier Santos in SS. I'll be wearing black, and let me tell you, nothing looks as good on black on a lady as a Cartier Santos. I've actually been to the Alberto Santos Dumont museum-home in Petropolis, outside of Rio. Funny chap. Great watch.

By the photos, it seemed to me that it had the cannon pix, dagger, and swan neck done. No clue about palp crown, but didn't look too badly. If I weren't up in DSN's biness these days, I'd knuckle down and buy one from Angus too. His presentation is first-rate, and after Swemoose's disaster, I know he's reliable.

I am inimitable. Really, I've tried to imitate myself but it's impossible. I simply do not have the energy. Whew, I'm exhausting, I mean! exhausted. Anyway, if you find another woman even remotely like me anywhere in this world, let me know. I'm tired of having only men friends all my life (now you know).

That same DAY, day mind you, I received two other marriage proposals on RWI and Repgeeks. SSsurfer, I'd like to marry you, but unless we found a cult where women can have several husbands instead of the more usual, men have many wives, you will have to play a game of canasta to win my hand. ...which allegedly happened to a great-aunt of mine. Fun times.

P.S.: This issue is complex, because of the emotions it brings out in us as perceived victims of a rigged system. But if you study an industry, you will see that consolidation of power is the next move after the free-for-all which a burgeoning industry has in the beginning. This is true of nearly ALL businesses in countries where there are no government brakes applied on their free market system. This was true of railroads, oil, computers, rep watches, you name it. The only reason I would be concerned is if Andrew and Joshua were proven to have strong-armed their competitors through violent means. That is clearly beyond any boundaries of a healthy competitive system. I remember Silix once mentioning something (not about Andrew/Joshua, please do not misunderstand) on the old RWG that we will never fully understand all the implications of the rep watch business. He strongly suggested the use of force was amongst them. But until proven, I will stick to the chaps who give me the best service, for the best bang for my buck. I HATE the fact that prices were raised, but that's capitalism. They are providing us with a service. We have other options, hence it's no monopoly. That's pretty much all I have to say on this thread.

I'll never know what men see in Salma Hayek. Or Penelope Cruz, come to that. (EDIT: You know in Top Gun when they are playing volleyball just before Cruise bikes off to be with Kelly what's her name? Well, I paused on the Iceman, too. And I don't even like Val Kilmer)

Seraphe, let me just say that your composed, logical reply was wonderful to read. Thanks for that. I can't speak for anyone else's experience, but as I touched on in another forum (which unfortunately devolved into an unpleasant atmosphere) sometimes just the mere fact that one own's a rep: 1) Makes one look smarmy and deceitful 2) Throws the rest of our genuine jewelry, watches into disrepute 3) Allows people to have "something" on you, which they can use for leverage in social circles Maybe that's not the case with everyone, and you know what? Maybe people like us deserve it, if we try to pass off rep items as gen items (even by the mere fact of not clarifying the situation). But we humans are complicated. We like to have it both ways. In fact, every way. Thanks for putting yet another nail in my pretentious coffin. This is why I feel more grounded being around you guys, than otherwise would be the case -- and yes, I'm being deadly honest.

Ahh, happy Italians with their month-long break. Right, that I heard. Oh yes? Because I had considered the 005 from DSN at one point. Not good? Definitely. But remember, SSsurfer, that sometimes a rep owner becomes a gen owner and their gimlet eye follows them. In fact, it may well be one of the more important aspects of owning a rep watch -- you become extremely knowledgeable about the marque, if you are in any way serious about watches. Yeah, you're right. I don't want to go to a GTG, but there is an online site I'd like to join full of Paneristi (not that forum, no). They post pics of their watches, and I just wanted to join in the fun. But I'm only fooling myself. Ahhh. Yes. I'm glad you are au fait about the situation. Thanks, adorato!

George, everyone of us wishes you only the best, but it seems your issues and revindications are beyond the scope of a mere watch forum, on a thread about a Pierce Brosnan vehicle. May you find a way out of your predicament with courage and speed. And now, did anyone watch this movie? I have yet to see him in the admin Crown Affair remake, although I do know he wore a Jaeger Le Coultre reverso in it. Not quite Steve McQueen's manly image that... (EDIT: ADMIN! LOL!)