Craytonic

Yeah, that knocked out the last ten

Thanks everyone for the strippers! They were both amazing and will send the bill shortly!

I can't wait!

My poor powerbook is gobbling up a gig of ram every time I use it within an hour and having to use the HD for swap space... I really need a re-install and all the Leopard goodness.

If they add a feature that links your screen to your TV via apple TV I may shead a few tears of joy.

Thanks! Evidence I spend way too much time here...

ohhhh I thought you didn't use RSS pug

Having hit postmaster today I am taking liberty to be a smart-ass (not as if I didn't before).

Hi various admins,

First, the new site upgrades are awesome

I notice we have had an RSS feed for quite a while. I am no genius on this stuff. I can get it for the main forum, but wondered if I could get it for the sales thread? I can't seem to get it working quite right for that part of the forum - although it would be cool to be able to get an RSS feed of the latest sales. If it can't be done no worries, I was just curious.

Thanks!

Cray

Check out the thread in my signature...

looking for a 'passed caring' option

Obviously you didn't buy one. I can't blaim those affected from being a teeny bit offset...

If they woud just update the laser etching... (way to loud/strong).

Just go to Canal street in china town... this is where the junk is they sell to high school tourists. HORRIBLE subs & pams.

If you go to the diamond district (5th and around 50th? Google it for the exact location) you will find some better reps - actually very good. Just look for some of the shadier looking places and walk to the back and ask about watches... They are not as out in the open as canal street but the quality can be better. It is in the bigger centers with stalls, usually in the back stalls. Lots of bling crap to sort through though.

Can we just agree that the B&R project was not exactly handled properly and move on? I'm sure the guys will know that they are being watched, and I'm sure we won't see this kind of thing again.

I will, for one, continue to do business with these guys as previous to this incident they have provided nothing but top quality service by all accounts!

I think all people want is an apology and a promise to be straight forward - not word games about "ETA" and "superlume"

Trademarked, but now we're arguing semantics, as in "the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text".

Sorry, trademarked. You are correct. Either way it is misleading and they need to call a spade a spade - the meaning of the words has not changed.

If you were paying for the kleenex at a "brand name" price, and got single ply toilet paper I would think you may not see them as the same... Same as if I order a coke and receive pepsi without prior warning. Those are two specific brands... Id be even more upset if it is advertised as coke and I receive no-name brand cola. Now multiple the cost by 100x and there should not even be a question of why this is an issue.

The point is sometimes it is acceptable because the meaning of the word changes and sometimes it is not. Here I think not - see first 3 pages of thread for reference.

Its such a stupid arguement, but I couldnt help but ask my neighbor about this (he has a PhD in Lingustics), and he believes samantics to be the natural development and interpretation by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form. If you DELIBERATELY classify something inaccurately, it is not a development in samantics. Rather, it is false rhetoric. Whereas, saying your are "drunk" vs. "[censored]" is a matter of samantics. They are both the same thing, but labeled differently.

And, I know you never said it was not deliberate, thats why I brought this up. I cant believe I spent this much time on this haha

Bah since we are going to have it out on this one.... J&A are claiming that the "natural development and interpretation" as you put it of the words "ETA" and "Superlume" have changed. I believe the "development and interpretation" of those words has not changed. That makes it a semantic argument

Classic examples that back my point here are the words "kleenex" and "q-tip". These are both copyrighted terms and are items mfg by a specific company (like an ETA movement). But, you don't ask for facial tissue. You ask for a kleenex when you sneeze - even though what you receive is not technically a "kleenex." The same thing is happening here, the dealers are saying when you buy an "ETA" labled movement it is ok to give you a movement not made by ETA (much like you would take a "fake" kleenex when you asked for one to whipe your snot). I don't belive the words have changed as they suggest - so it is a semantics issue.

There's an easy way to sort this problem.....and one that should please everyone.....( well maybe not everyone)...!

1. The dealers in question....do a recall on the item concerned.....!

2. They then fit what was PERCEIVED as being fitted by means of their advert.

3. They offer a refund to ALL who bought the item believing it was ...what it wasn't....!

4. They alter the description of the advert....for future customers...!

5. They lower the price of the product.....( not that anyone NOW will pay the price for what they AREN"T getting ).

6. Apologise to all the EXPERTS here......for misleading them.

Easy peasy ...lemon squeezy.....!

If not.......everything you've read from post #1 is a ........

I think they are being roasted enough; you are not exactly a non-interested third party here (even if I may agree). I am sure coke would love to see pepsi fall as well.

Yea, I understand your point, but semantics implies that the distinction between the two is trivial. Like many of the examples given (buying a suit, going to the grocery store, etc), the distinction between the two is not trivial. If you bought a product thinking it was one thing (Swiss ETA), and it turns out to be completely different (Asia Copy), would you say it was just semantics? I contend that the descriptions are not just a different interpretations of meanings; rather, the descriptions are intended to misled to increase sales. They know what they are doing; it is deliberate.

I never said it was not deliberate; I actually implied the opposite if you read the entire thread. I see the problem here - you just don't like the word semantics. It is a semantics issue because they are claiming an copy of an ETA is an Asian ETA which goes to the meaning of... oh nevermind you can't please everyone. If you go by the dictionary it is the correct term to use.

No, its not. If it was simply semantics, the ETA copy would be exactly like a gen ETA, just labeled differently. If they are two completely different products, yet labeled the same, its intended to mislead the buyer.

This is a small point but I am right...

Semantics is "The relationships of characters or groups of characters to their meanings." I think "ETA," "Superlume," and "sapphire" all have very specific meanings attached. They are being used (incorrectly) as adverbs here. It is a semantics issue - should dealers be using ETA in this new way? I think not.

No restrictions !?!?!?!?!

Steve McQueen Tag Heuer Moncaco!!!!!

A nice patek phillipe w/o complications, just a dress watch!

The problem with A&J's response is that it was a "Bill Clinton under investigation response." I do not intend to be political. I like Bill Clinton. I like Josh (I have never bought a watch from Andrew). But, I lot a lot of respect for Clinton the day he started playing semantic games about the definition of "is." I feel the same way here when copyrighted terms & nouns are being adjectives. Much respect was lost.

Everyone knows it was a bad description. The best response would be to put the shovel down and say "guys, sorry, I goofed and it won't happen again - thanks for keeping me straight." We will think more, not less, of you for doing so!

Would be interesting to see that logic applied to any other type of merchandise. Try for example the next time you go food shoping. Imagince the scene:

You come the shop assistant with a box of milk in youir hand and ask him "Hello, I found this box on which it says Milk. I just wanted to make sure, does it contain Milk, or is there a risk that it contains orange juice?" The guy responds "It contains Milk of course" Looking happily suprised you continue "It says 1 liter on the box. Is there any risk that it contains 30 milliliter instead?" And so the conversatoin would continue for every item.

Bingo!

Registrant:

Brand9Avenue

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Domain name: BRAND9AVENUE.COM

Administrative Contact:

White, Jerome the7sharon@hotmail.com

323 Main st

Diamond Bar, CA 91789

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+1.6268108559 Fax: +1.0

Technical Contact:

Support, Technical support@myvaluehost.com

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Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.

Record last updated on 30-Jan-2007.

Record expires on 18-Apr-2007.

Record created on 18-Apr-2005.

Created in 2005, old registration

Funny how they are set at exactly the same time and the second hand is moving at exactly the same place, isn't it? Same date too!

Of all the gin joints in all the world...

Unfortunately, the entire issue is semantics.

Do "ETA," "Superlume," and "Sapphire" have a set meaning? Or, is their meaning that which the dealer gives them arbitrarily based on their own financial desires? I believe it is the former, not the latter. I would like to see my questions above answered though.

Most of the rep watches I have purchased have been from Andrew and Joshua. They are both consumate professionals and through all of my transactions with both of them, there have been minor bumps here and there, but they have always answered any inquiry sometimes within minutes, never later than a couple of hours. If there is a problem which is rare, it is fixed. As far as the white lies go, the definition of that phrase 'white lie' is a fabrication made so as not to hurt the feelings of another, or to not offend. I do not believe either of these guys has ever set out to be deceitful in any way, and if someone has an issue about a description then just ask them about it and a straight answer will be forthcoming.

Thank you Andrew and Joshua, your watches have made my life a little better, and that is a fact.

Is labeling an ETA copy an "ETA" a white lie? I am not so sure. If you ordered a watch labled as an "ETA" movement and received a movement that was in fact not ETA at all, but was an ETA copy, would you be "offended"? I think I would.

I do not believe either of these guys has ever set out to be deceitful in any way

If this is true, why call it an "Asian ETA" or just an "ETA" instead of calling it an "ETA copy"? I can think of only one reason - the belief that this labeling will lead to more sales because consumers will think they are purchasing an ETA movement when in fact they are not - they are purchasing a copy of an ETA movement (would you like to try and purchase a real rolex and get a copy of one instead?). The definition of deception is "providing intentionally misleading information to others." Is it intentionally misleading to label a watch as ETA when it is not ETA at all? Why not just be up front and state what it is to begin with?

Josh & Andrew - I like you guys and I like your stuff, I am not trying to attack or vilify (sp?) you. I am just a little concerned about your choices in advertising as of late. I honestly believe you will come out better with more sales and less returns if you are 100% upfront about every aspect of the watch in your description. Your greatest asset as a seller is your reputation - there is no reason to tarnish it over terms like "Asian ETA" and using "superlume" as an adjective & not a verb.

I am a little confused why a consumer should have to ask if "ETA" means "ETA"? Could it mean quartz? Why not just describe it as a copy to begin with.

I also don't understand why a purchaser should ask if "sapphire" means "sapphire" and not glass or plexiglass?

Why is "superlume" being treated as an adjective and not a verb?

This is somewhat of a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line between when someone should ask questions and when you can trust the description. When does it become a scam?

Why not just call a spade a spade? Why call a diamond a club? I believe the words we use to describe our watches have meanings. Those meanings are being lost.

Keep in mind those of us posting don't have to worry, we are informed purchasers. It is the uninformed masses that will be mislead.

You need to ask why the description does not say "ETA copy" when that is in fact what it is. This is one rhetorical question I will answer - you call an ETA copy an "Asian ETA" because you believe you will sell more of them that way. This means a purchaser is being intentionally mislead so the seller can have a higher profit.

I really fail to see how one can state "just as questions' when it would be easy to create descriptions that require no questions. Do I have to question the responses to the questions? When does it end, and why let it begin?

Why should I have to ask if you mean what you say? You should just say what you mean!

I have done some good transactions with Josh, so this is just a little surprising to me.

No it was a good call; I wasn't criticizing you.

I just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time and it threw me off momentarily till the system did what it should - notify me of the change.