Dani

I get all my high ends watches shipped at reduced value but they are always insured by a 3party

But at 5-15k each it can be nerv wracking

No risk no reward.

Looks great.

I woud get one if they was for sale

good read tnx.

Dani, its not about talking about the news, its about talking specifically about religion. The mods on this board have rules, laid out by the Admin, we have rules laid out by the admin, and one of those rules, is that we are not allowed to talk about religion which will likely lead to a debate which gets out of hand.

I'm sure we're allowed to discuss anything else on the news, but not regarding politics or religion

This is about more then religion its freedom of speech but its also religion so its on the border of the rules.

But i understand what you are saying this movie is geting censored all over so why not rwg.

Cheers

Are you determined to get suspended or banned? Seriously?

wow

yeah get banned for talking about a subject that is on every news paper in the vestern world.

i have not spoken one word about my own opinion to this movie.

but i see you guys have not a opinion to it or maybe just dont dear to talk about it.

let me just say this i see no reason for muslims to even think of this movie, the people that made it will not get more "support" based on this trust me its poorly made and to much based on fear not facts.

its more easy for bad people to show up in the spootlight then good people inn all walks of life.

Yeah ban me for talking about a news subject that is all over the web then i shoud have been banned loooooooong time ago

Cheers

Some asked and talked about pitbulls being so powerfull and big bite force

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3db_1203899498

Rest my case.

I'll agree with this statement........Dani enough already please.

Ken

Ok no links then.

Lets discous this movie.

Cant see why we cant.

If i start a topic on buddisme it will not be shut down, humm strange..

At the end of the day, it's about mankind having free will. Free will to choose to submit, free will to choose not to submit. Of course, that's not to say that there won't be punishment for those who refuse to follow Allah's will, but, that's as with any system of laws: Those who refuse to obey them, are punished. Ultimately though, and something the hadithists tend to forget, is that it is Allah who will ultimately judge (and possibly forgive) those who choose not to believe in Him, not mankind to judge or punish

So you belive i will be punished becasue i dont belive in allah?

Then i em sure you see me as a less of a human since i em a non beliver?

I forgot what muslims called non belivers? and what is said about non belivers in the quran ?

Cheers

Make up your own opinion.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...earch&plindex=0

Cheers

So you saw some videos and you feel sorry for the animals, fine, but I am pointing out that that is not the correct method. Stop trying to depict a religious mandate, which by the way was originally intended to decrease suffering, with some kind of barbaric practice.

Sure, if I had a choice I would rather be shot in the head than have my throat slit, but no one cares if my brain matter contaminates my bloodstream and spreads mad cow disease. Further, it is possible for a cow to appear stunned and still feel pain, while it is NOT possible for it to bleed out and remain conscious.

The fact is, there are a crapload of Muslims and Jews and they eat a crapload of meat. You, and whatever pansy organization you support, are NEVER going to get them to start shooting cows in the head. It MIGHT be possible to spread standards of animal welfare that reduce suffering to the bare minimum, but all the crying about the "evil religious wackos torturing the noble beasts" is accomplishing nothing.

So far no one has been sticking up for the plants, my spirit ears can hear their death-screams in the death-fields, crying out for justice! I sometimes tell my steak that it got what it deserved for tearing up all that helpless grass and eating it alive.

If you really have a heart you would not eat any harvested plant, only those fruits and nuts the majestic trees willingly offer you by dropping them to Mother Earth.

Diffrence from me and you i dont cear if their is crap load of muslims or jews that stand against my opinion.

I now their slaughter metods are cruel compard to modern metods so i em against it.

If you back down each time their is alot against you then you are a whimp and a weak person..

I now that kosher and halal was inntended as a better way for animals to get slaughter but as whit many things this 2 groups one more then the other have decided to stay in the past and not move forward.

You now what your last comment is so stupid, i can eat meat, i can be against cruel metods of slaughter and still eat meat..

Cheers

Nothing I see in that video comes close to what chickens go through.

(WARNING: if you are sensitive but love fried chicken, do not watch this video)

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When an animal kills a human in self-defence, or due to its beastly nature (which is rare) some humans want pay-back. They then go and track down the animal and kill it. When a sting-ray killed Steve Irwin in either self-defence or due to being frightened, some people got enraged and began to hunt down and kill innocent sting-rays. So when an animal attacks humans, we justify ourselves to go out and kill them.

The animals we kill for food, they don't have the means to attack us, they can't defend themselves. They pretty much have no choice but to accept their fate, that their days are numbered and their throat will soon be slit. You can observe that humans will only kill those animals for food which can't defend themselves, in other words they prey on the weak and defenceless.

I would like to see how things turn around, if dinosaurs were brought back to the earth. We would now be lower in the food chain, they will be hunting and killing us for food. We will naturally try to defend ourselves to survive as a species, and because we want to live. We won't just accept that the dinosaurs outmatch us in brute strength and killing power, and so we're pretty much they're food.

I point out that we humans can survive just fine without killing any animals for food. We are actually wasting more land, water, and crops in rearing animals for food. These extra crops can be used to feed the poor and help lessen poverty, the water can also be used in this same way. However due to the selfishness of many humans, sadly many animals are being killed to satisfy their bellies, though fully knowing that its not a requirement.

Best respond in this tread by far..

Since I now know more than I ever wanted to know about cattle slaughter, I'll share. For the record, I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish, but I do think Kosher hot dogs taste better.

The main difference between Kosher/Halal and modern slaughter is stunning, i.e. a bolt (or electric shock) to the skull.

In the ideal "stunning" scenario, the first shot of a boltgun causes instant unconsciousness and perhaps brain death, the butchering takes place immediately afterwards with the animal feeling no pain. In a certain percentage, the animal shows signs of consciousness after the first shot and requires a second bolt. Recently, methods of stunning that reduce contamination of the blood with brain matter (electric stunning, blunt boltguns that do not penetrate the skull) have been used more, these tend to be less reliable and can increase the odds of the animal regaining consciousness.

In the ideal "modernized" Kosher or Halal scenario, the cow has it's throat cut while standing upright and lightly supported. Dr. Grandin observes that if the cut is made properly, the animal appears to feel no pain (no reaction to the cut) and collapses due to massive blood loss within 30 seconds.

So there are a few ways to look at it, sure it's barbaric to hoist a live animal and start hacking at its throat, but a clean cut can be quite humane. On the other hand, if an animal is shot in the head but does not die, that can be a lot more barbaric in term of suffering.

Thake a look at correctly done halal or kosher its freaking cruel its so easy to see, and if you have seen the halal slaughter of US citizens in Iraq you understand have cruel it is as its more easy to see on a human have teribel it is then a animal..I have seen on the web people getting their throat slit and belive me they woud prefer a bullet or bolt to that..

I have seen in person regular bolt to the head slaughter and i have seen rifle shot to the head to a deer that was hit by a car..

Animals cant talk for that reason they depend on people to act when they see crulety done towards them..

Pleas search up halal slaughter and kosher look at some vids then tell me its ok..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W98MfTnBsqM

Cheers

Not quickly enough, unfortunately. Mutation and optimisation happens over tens of thousands of years (yes, the earth is millions of years old) so we'll not see nature adapting fast enough to our impact on the planet.

But don't worry, some divine power can always pop up and fix everything. That's the alternative.

ps. Ken, if I make some deeply amusing, but anti-religious comments, can we please get this thread closed?

Lets hit page 20 first.

when these animals are gone won't new ones come along,and aren't new ones being formed as we speak?

That i dont now to be onest..

But i guess not as their is no place for animals to evolve only the sea their is stil some place and some small remote islands.

Cheers

Um Dani humans are better then any other life form period........sorry but thats a fact

Also were I agree man is responsible for the extinction of many in the animal world but we still have a long way to go to match Mother Nature......she wiped out the Dinosaurs.

Ken

Have did she whipe out them was it not a stone from space?

Cretaceous

Well, I do have to thank you for giving me her name. I'm reading up on her, and yes, she seems to combine her autism with her intrinsic understanding of the suffering of animals.

According to Wiki, they call her the "Woman Who Thinks Like a Cow". Funny, I always thought that was my old Headmistress (thank you thank you, I'm here all week).

Anyway, I'm all for her devising a less stressful environment in abattoirs. On paper, I have nothing against preventing people from bettering the lot of animals. I just don't care for those who connote the suffering of animals as equivalent to the suffering of humans. THAT is a step too far (for me).

Vic you are what i call a pro human, you think humans are better then any other life form period.

I on the other hand can see the faults of humanity and i belive the best life forms are the ones that dont destroy a planet that gives you life..

Think of it mother earth gives us life the reason you can breath now is due to our planet and guess what we have/are destroying our earth and have erased an alarming amount of animals that we will never see again, cutting down forest that gives us air to breath and we call ourself superior beings?

Humans do suffer more due to our larger mind frame so i agree on that point.

I do sound like a hippe

A noted PETA activist Dani. You usually find her on late-night interview shows like Larry King, etc. The name rang a bell, and sure enough, she's also an autism activist (my mother is a child psychiatrist).

She believes that animals should have protections like what is given to humans in the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Man and citizens...

Did not seem like a peta activist site..Do it not say she is designing slaughter machines?

Boiling a lobster is pretty gentle (death in 30 seconds or so) compared to the common way for processed lobsters to die--immersion in fresh water which can take 8-12 hours to kill them. Not that my heart bleeds for lobsters, they are basically a big tasty cockroach.

As far as humane slaughter goes, there is a ton of interesting information here regarding Halal and other methods.

http://www.grandin.com/ what a twisted site, but good reading inded and it just confirmed what i now about halal and kosher.

Cheers

Do like me ignore such pm's whit low ball offers.

and set in the sale post what you whant and have you whant the money.

I have one on the way but whit PR

My God, isn't this thread dead yet? My contribution to its demise is the following: Dani, good intentions are one thing. But painting people with the broad brushstroke of evil will get you the same derision that PETA rightly get.

I'm not much for Nietzsche. But he did say one true word:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."

In this case, you're claiming those who do not fight "monsters" are themselves monsters, which is hyperbole (or as Pugwash said, silly).

This tread will go to page 20 we are not at the top yet.

To just say NO to animal crulety is anuff to not be a monster but if you sit and say its ok then your just as bad as people that do it.

i did not now they still used drivers in F1

No, you're not. What a silly thing to say.

If you look at animal abuse and say that just have it is then your just as bad as the people doing it.

Easy.

some people just like playing with their food.totally kidding.i just think that if you slaughter dogs everyday for food,you will cease to see them as anything but food.you're trying to get it done as fast as possible so if the animals are treated a little rough, it doesn't matter anymore.i don't think these people are anymore savage than anyone else on this planet.but,other animals on the planet absolutely torture their food before they eat it.i.ve seen killer whales (some of the smartest animals on the planet)play tennis with seals before they eat them.ever seen a cat catch something and play with it a while before dining?i have.seems to me that it is very natural behavior for an animal.so you can't call these people savages,right?

I have had cats and dogs my hole life so yes i now have brutal they can be.

If you just say "ohh that is just have it is" then you are just as bad as this people that use this brutal metod's of slaughter.

I speak up against it as i belive in my opinion its wrong..

If its a dog,cat,pig,bear or any other animal that get slaughter like that in the clip i thake a stand against it.

I have seen all of the bad stuff on the web also i have seen alot of bad stuff in my life but still animal abuse and child abuse is what realy gets to me..

Cheers