Dani

Once again, no we haven't.

Everything below us on the food chain will be brutally killed at some point. You've just picked on dogs because you like them. Where were you when seal-clubbing came to the fore? Where are you on the whaling issues?

If you stopped just picking on dogs for your attention, you'd have a hell of a lot more credibility.

You are so wrong i have talked about other animals as well.

As said before the way this dogs get killed that is awfull not that they are dogs.

If a pig got killed this way i woud be just as mad about it, but topic is about dogs a creature that is nown for being a human friend and companion.

You are the one that have missed the point.

dani,you missed the point.THERE IS NO HUMANE WAY OF DEPRIVING SOMETHING OF IT'S LIFE!

So for you to torture it before eating is just ok?

Just to put things into perspective. In the next 120 years over 6 billion humans will die.

So?

Its have we are we get born and we die 2 certain things in life.

I agree that at heart Dani's stance is contradictory. But the fact is Dani is especially touched by dogs, and doesn't want to see them killed cruelly.

Not only dogs but dogs was in the clip and reason to start this tread.

I also show in this tread halal slaughter of sheeps that i also feel is awfull.

this shows you how flawed the majority of people's thinking is.people only care when the issue concerns them.that is selfishness.

I dont only think of dogs wow you guys have realy got stuck on the dog issue its not that dogs get slaugher for meat its have they get slaughter that is my point in this tread..If a dog get slaugher in a normal way whitout torture then i cant say much against it but when its savagely killed i speak up against it.

Cheers

if death is natural,and everything that has ever lived has died,and humans are natural hunters,why do we still have fear and anger over anything dying?just a question.

Its not that life forms dies that was the subject of this tread, i think 99% of people that post in this tread has missed the point totaly.

ITS THE WAY THIS DOGS GOT KILLLLLLLED HAVE MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS 10000 TIMES?

"Strategic location of water, rivers and such"

Part of the issue is indeed the location of water but if you do your homework (http://www.unicef.org/wes/index_war_water.html , for example) you'll notice that many times, there is an abundant water supply, it's just not clean due to poor hygiene and sanitation practices / waste. This is how diseases like cholera and parasites can infect and kill small children who drink from infected bodies of water.

Obviously not everyone is near a source of water but if the governments in some of these third world countries actually provided capital to create a water delivery infrastructure, many would avoid the dehydration and infection that harm millions. By educating people as to the proper way to handle water and dispose of waste, as well as tools like the one in my previous post, a large percentage of the deaths and medical conditions due to dehydration and infection could be prevented.

As to you "educating" me, I would love for you to show me a sample population that receives no water at all per year. No rainfall, no rivers/runoff, no oceans, etc. (By the way, there are places like this) Find me that population and then correlate it with the other 800 million people (according to the WHO http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releas.../en/index1.html ) who are facing dehydration. You cannot do it. You cannot tell me that 800 million people do not have clean water because they are not located near water/rivers. A large percentage of these people ARE near water/rivers, they're just not clean. In fact, the article even mentions those in desert regions, stating that "Sub-Saharan Africa, meanwhile, has the lowest percentage of people with access to basic sanitation facilities - 36 per cent, an increase of just four per cent since 1990. In the developing world as a whole, only 49% of people had access to adequate sanitation facilities, while in the world's developed regions, 98% of people did." Again, this has nothing to do with the physical location of water per se, it has to do with sanitation facilities...facilities which need government support and, most of all, money to be built (again, money that I think shouldn't be spent on a war on Marijuana or sent to People Eating Tasty Animals ) .

QED Dani, and I typed that whole thing "whit [sic] [my] head in the sand..."

Edit to add: Oh and by the way Dani, when there's no clean water, the cute and fuzzy animals get sick/die too...

I started the water issue on why wars will be fought over it.

Its the location of clean water in some parts of the world that is hard for 4 countrys to share also its a energi question on top of that, if you cant understand that then.

They will have water to drink but water is also the biggest soruce of energi after oil and offcaurse the sun.

Cheers

I'm done in the religious aspects of this thread. Go ahead, you can pretend you won.

In France, they eat Horse. In the UK, they think this is an abomination. In Yakutsk, they wear fur and would die without it. In several countries this is considered an abomination. Nobody is right all the time.

This tread was never about if its wrong to eat dogs or cats.

It was about the way they get killed, have people even looked at the clip on page 1?

Dogs,horses,monkeys,pigs,lizards,ants,birds,sharks,alligators,frogs,even human flesh humans eat everything that is why i consider us to be the worst of the worst.

There is plenty of water. This is a fact. There is technology (sorry Dani, I cannot bring myself to put it in quotes and spell it the way you do) that makes desalination and filtration possible. In fact, technology made this ( hxxp://www.gizmag.com/go/4418/ ) item a reality and will reduce the amount of people suffering from lack of water. The problem is the 3rd world warlords and governments that deny their own citizens water either because they are simply too poor to afford such technology or because they simply do not care. Maybe people should stop sending money to PETA and start sending it to fight 3rd world genocides, etc.

When you boil it down, each species only has one thing they must do to survive: reproduce. Not look after the cuddly puppies, not say that the vicious man-eating tiger is "misunderstood" but reproduce. It is the only thing that a species, as a whole, must do to continue existence. To say otherwise is to go against science and against the very nature that you swear by.

I think it's foolish to say that the world needs fewer people and then turn and argue that a lack of clean water is a bad thing. If you want fewer people in the world, then you should be hoping for less clean water as this will reduce our populations to a level that you consider more "manageable."

You have target one thing i say i see.Ok lets go.

Your level of understanding the strategic location of water,rivers and such is poor so i cant see why i shoud even try to educate you on this as i see it as a waste of my time..I leave you whit your head in the sand..

Cheers

I know...

Even if it didn't, we humans were given the capacity to create alternate worlds in other parts of this Universe, given our imaginations, intelligence and motor skills.

I don't know if humans are the crowning creation of God, of evolution, whatever you want to call it. And every time I wake up and see this beautiful world, my eyes water at its majesty -- hoping it'll last for millions of years more, long after I'm turned to dust.

But I do know that between Gaia, animals and humans, my hopes are with humans.

If god exist i em sure after seing have we humans turned out he comited seppuku

God, religion lets not start their

Don't worry. It always does.

As a person who is the daughter of an Oncologist-H

Eugenics! Oh boy, Dani.

Yes seems i do fall into that catagory but not the luddite as i do hope we will see more tekonolgy progress towards animals and the welfare of our planet..

I only said if it was to happen that tekonolgy was gone i woud not cry about it i realy dont think it will ever happen..

Cheers

Between human beings and the rest, I'll choose human beings every time.

Wow, I never took you for a Luddite, Dani.

Ironically, you share the same opinion as Wahabbists.

I dont even now what luddite is, but yes i cant see what teknology to this date in time has done to our planet that is positive towards anything else then us humans.

You now what if i was to have the choice of a human that was born whit some deforma/diease and a healthy animal i woud thake the healty animal ANYDAY..

We humans think its a right to have children, in nature only the strong have children becasue of this its not so many disease and such among animals.

If a weak person mates whit another weak person that child will bare the scars of them in the future, is that correct to do against that child?? my vote goes towards this 2 people adopt a healty child and raise it as their own insted of having a baby that will suffer in life becasue of their genetics..

@ Dani...

Do you REALLY and truly think that there are too many humans on the planet? Regarding your statement that you'd rather more air, water..etc.. I'm sure that you must realize that 3/4 of the planet is made up of water, that there is no shortage of air, and that humans are part of "nature."

Here's one for ya? What if one of those "additional" billion people discovered the cure to cancer? Or a way to mass produce cheap synthetic food and save all the fuzzy puppies? Do you think that you deserve to be here more than one of those "additional" billion people because of your holier-than-thou attitude? If technology was gone, what would happen to the scientists and processes that go into making balanced dog food? What about vaccines or heart-worm pills? What if the cuddly doggies couldn't eat IAMS because the technology wasn't there and suddenly decided a young child or someone's infirm parent would be tasty? Quite honestly, if you think there are too many people on the planet, should we get rid of some of them? Would a truly hardcore animal lover kill themselves so that there would be fewer humans on the planet and so that dogs could live more harmoniously? The whole attitude is absurd. I agree that consuming a canine is disturbing but the only reason it is disturbing to most people is because of the cultural attachment many Westerners have to domesticated animals. For you to sit on your throne and dictate why an entire nation and race should change established cultural practices, then deride anyone who DARES to disagree with you, is arrogant and foolish.

And to seal the deal, I'm eating a delicious piece of prime rib I took home earlier from a VERY nice steak house (which I drove to in a technologically advanced car, built in an Asian country, covered in leather AND wood, and running premium gas) ... delicious.

Ciao,

Shundi

The cure for cancer will come but then their will come something else, its have nature works.

If you think water is all over the place then pleas explain why almost all sience people think their will be wars not fought over oil in the future but water?

I can mention India,Bangladesh,Pakistan,Kina this region will be unstabil if the fight over water cant be resolved..Yes we have big seas full of water but they are not located strategic towards any place we humans can use most of it.

To have the rainforest,water, clean air, a magnifold of animals in the future is more importent then more humans on this planet.

And towards your last remark i em no vegan have can i be a vegan when i belive we as humans are the worst predators to ever walk this planet..

Cheers,

that's the spirit!i could use some more real brazilian hardwood watchboxes,also!just playing.i'm all for environmental protection,i am an avid fisherman.but,the fact is that the earth could support a much larger population than it currently has.with all the technology out there you would think we could come up with something like cleaner fuel,water desalanization plants for abundant water,something.fact is if there is no money in it,it won't get done no matter how much someone cries about it.also,if there is money in it,it will get done,no matter who gets hurt or killed in the process.there is evil in the world.

If i em + you are -

You cant even realise that we are to many humans on this earth, you are one of does that cant think outside the human race !?

You do now we share this planet whit other life forms?

I will rather have wildlife and nature, air ,water, rainforest, then 1billion people more on this planet.

If all teknoligi was to go away i woud be one of the first to be happy, lets get down to basic

Cheers

My guess is a corum admiral cups some sort of LE.

The crown guard looks very corum so does the dial.

US members let me now if some of you coud get me some iphones ill pay 45$ on top of cost of phone and shipping on each one trusted members only

Its Not for sale in Norway and ebay is no option as my last order whent MIA.

Cheers

and the human race is overpopulating the planet...

i can agree on this

I'm sure certain diseases will continue to thin the numbers

Lets hope so as it is needed to save our planet.

Cheers

Enjoy your trip.

Cheers.

Dani

Thanks

Cheers,

Are you a vegetarian?

If not, why not?

I em no vegan becasue i belive humans are meat eaters, simpel..Thus i also belive we can evolve and not be savages like this Chinese people in the vid..

And you think PETA would show something showing halal slaughter in a positive light? Try a little less biassed sources of information next time... I'm not making comments about halal slaughter just because I'm a Muslim, I'm simply stating the facts about it. If done properly, unconsciousness is near instantaneous, with death following closely (while the animal is unconscious) This applies to Humans as well as animals. There was a story in the news not so long ago, about a man who was died as a result of a fight (which he actually provoked) because a blow to his neck tore his jugular, and he bled to death internally. I suspect, that as the bleeding was only internal, the process took longer, but, had it been an 'open wound', he would have been dead even quicker.

What is savage about killing an animal in as humane manner as possible? How about strangling something to death, or snapping the neck of an animal in your hands? Those are not humane methods of slaughter, and would traumatise the animal (especially if it is not killed on the first attempt) Cutting the jugular vein, however, is a near foolproof method of slaughter (providing the blade is sharp, and the person knows what they are doing.

Victoria's post also covers much that I would agree with.

Try to look beyond the peta label and look at the clip, its cruel and nasty.

Strawman my ass, the fact of the matter, is that it is one of the most humane methods of slaughter available. Bt how much, was not the issue.

And how many mainstream supermarkets are prepared to pay for hunters to bring in the meat?

Where did I say that? Dani mentioned halal, I simply clarified that it is one of the most humane slaughter methods available. I know you like arguing for the sake of it, and I've got better things to do with my time than indulge you

[Edit to add]

I forgot to mention, there's nothing stopping animals from being electronically stunned before being killed in the halal manner.

BS halal and kosher is a brutal act said to be done from a book and is a practise that is outdatet MANY MANY years ago in the sivil part of the world..

Just found this article mentioned online:

Scientific proof that properly carried out halal slaughter is less traumatic to the animal, thus more humane.

Same info, different source

A simple search for "Professor Schultz and his colleague Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University" will confirm these articles.

Background information. Halal/Haram

Peace be upon you.

peace be upon yourself.

Western European governments.

In North America, it would be UNTHINKABLE to prevent halal practises.

Quite simply, there are more Jewish people here, and Muslims are its secondary happy beneficiaries. Not only is population a consideration, but the impact of Jewish culture on American society must be remembered.

I'm not saying that Europeans have not felt the impact of Jewish influence in their cultures (entertainment, etc.). But it remains a minority group, made more so after WWII.

Ironically, in today's politically-correct climate, outlawing Halal practises would be seen primarily as anti-semitic and VIRULENTLY so. Any number of rabbis and university professors would testify in Congressional Panels, and the hubbub would be extraordinary.

That's simply not the case in Norway.

Don't feel this response is only about Jewish people. The same would be true of outlawing firearms. Quite simply, in the US one cannot do that because gun-owning culture is driven by blue-collar folks.

If it were a hobby of the toffs, like it is in Europe, it would stand a better chance of being made illegal. People with weakened or unpopular positions always get the shaft, as the Muslims in Europe are learning.

In the case of the US and jews, thank god Norway is Norway we are not "own" by a lobby group called aipac

Kosher is just as bad and cruel pratice as halal done by a group of people that also are blinded by what a book says

Key words there being look like

People are reacting to the sight of blood, and any thrashing/noises the beasts might be making. Those are autonomic reactions, not conscious reactions. As the articles proved, the animals are actually unconscious within seconds, and do not experience any pain. As unpleasant as those actions may appear, the animals are not aware of them. They are already unconscious.

Yeah to stand up and look dazed is also normal??

Its cruel and shoud be illegal.

Ill end this debate whit this and leave you all to think..Norway is one of the best countrys to live inn, hummm

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

- Mahatma Gandhi

The method is not cruel, if it is performed correctly. The Qur'an states that it is forbidden to eat flesh of an animal which has suffered in it's death (ie in a fall, goring, strangling etc) The Qur'an does not permit cruelty to animals. While you may not personally approve of the method of halal slaughter, that does not make it barbaric or cruel. If performed correctly, unconsciousness is near instantaneous, with death soon following. It does not cause suffering. Infact, it is not allowed for someone to slaughter an animal infront of another animal, as that could distress the 'next animal inline'.

I respect your right to your own opinion, but saying that something is barbaric does not actually make it so.

As I said previously, different cultures have their own ways of doing things. We may not personally like those things, but, it is not our place to criticise them, or make them conform to the standards of Western Society.

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/pink_wo...eo?c=stspinkvid

Yeah i now its sheeps in Aussie country clip, but look at the way they slaughter the sheeps when they arrive in a muslim country and get subject to the great kindness of halal slaughter..I em happy to say both halal and kosher is illegal in my country..

blabla peta this and that i now, i dislike them also.

As said before i em no vegan i em just not a savage or stoneage man.

Cheers

So if they're kissed to death, you don't mind if they're eaten, Dani??

lol what a stupid thing to say.

i em no vegan.

It's not that, Anton...

I've seen that Dani has a great big heart for animals. He is aghast at any cruelty to them. But he acts with his heart, at times, not thinking all angles in a matter.

When his Staffordshire pitbull breed was outlawed in his homeland, he thought that was a step too far. His own dog is as sweet as child. Couldn't hurt a fly. He also posted a website from a group against pitbulls, showing their hatred for the breed. He was disgusted people could think this way.

Well, guess what? Dani, speaking to you now, since it's rude to constantly talk over your head -- apologies.

The organisations and people you donate moneys too often hate pitbulls as a mega-violent breed of dog. If you questioned them closely, you would soon find that out. They'd probably confirm that they think it's odd someone who is against cruelty to dogs is an owner of a pitbull, bred for the greatest savageness.

PETA (which I believe you don't like, Dani, right?) work hand-in-glove with activists who wish to outlaw pitbulls in the USA, e.g. That won't happen, because of the cultural traditions in place in this country. It's different in Norway.

To the Norwegian government, potential violence is as awful as actual violence, such as the process of making meat halal. And pitbulls are potentially mega-violent, so out they go.

You dont think i now who is against pits or not?

I have been involded whit WORLD WIDE efforts against this bans not only local i worked against this laws way before my breed was banned in Norway.

I em against all such laws that steps on my rights..If i coud write in Norwigan and you understand i coud let you now more, but english not my native toung so not easy to write exactly have i whant to.

I don't see what the problem is... maybe its the fact that they lack the modernized machinery that we have to 'slaughter' the animals for consumption? the end result is the same either way; the animal is killed and is then consumed. Maybe you should visit one of these slaughter/processing plants to view the sheer brutality which in the end turns out as your steak, drumstick or pork chop?

you seem lack a basic understanidng of slaughter metods, empati and more..I have seen the slaughter metods used in Norway and i aprove of them as good and humane..This type slaughter toghter whit slaughter metods like kosher and halal is just barbaric and cruel nothing else, and to approve of them is in my eyes just as bad as the people that practice it.

Cheers

wow that people dash out 5200$ for a 111 or similar models is beyond me.

Point duly noted, Dani.

Then if we are talking about the issue of the way the Dogs get killed, do you think the way our livestock and poultry get killed are any better?

Do you propose a better solution than electroshock, bullets, and wringing necks?

I do apologize if I've missed what you were aiming for, Dani. But to be fair to the other posters in this thread, you were being vague in your original post and some of us do not speak or read Norwegian.

jeg beklager jeg bydde ikke oppfatte du.

this killings are beyond any halal slaughter or kosher this is PURE BRUTALITY nothing else.

you dont seem to understand and i em sure dont have a great deal of empati for animals in general.

Dogs are not eaten all year around in China, there is a dog eating season and it is late Autumn to the end of the year. Restaurants run specisla dn do promotions.

You are not going to stop it.

Just like you are not going to stop Argentinians eating Guinea Pigs, French eating snails and frogs, Scottish people almost hunting the wild haggis to extinction.

You might not belive this but it is TRUE: A mate of mine has a Shenzen factory and he had an Alsatian guard dog on duty to dissuade people from stealing his stock of highly expensive machines and stock. In December thieves broke in, guess what they stole? Yup. The dog. And yes, it was eaten.

Trying to be funny? if yes your not.

I understand people have to eat but I cannot understand any cruelty to living creatures, animal or man. Why acting like a savages, are they still living in the stoneage????

I'm sick to my stomach seeing this. If it happened in front of me personally I don't know what I would do, probably I could't control myself, get the club and bash the man's head....

@ Teejay, great gesture m8, but do you think Jay will do that?

I dont see why either, the way the act just show have much their life is worth for me a ant is more worth then this people..I now that not all Chinese people are like this so it gives me hope that their is in fact many animal welfare groups in China that are working 24/7 on this issues.

I will agree that one of the biggest issues with China is its treatment of humanity in general. The late 80's Tiananmen Massacre was a very good example. A somewhat peaceful protest by university students led to the death of over 100 of them, some of them being run over by tanks. Perhaps other nations would have used pressure hoses, or rubber bullets, or police barrage instead that day....god knows who gave tham the order to kill....

While I am strongly against China's inhumane acts, I don't believe boycotting the olympics is going to help. I believe, however, that exposing them to world culture will benefit the society and they may just be able to see a glimpse of a society that does respect humanity and may one day reflect on it themselves....knowledge and experience is everything guys....don't take that away from them....not many of them understand that there is a society outside China, this is a good chance for them to see....

Changing a tradition and attitude that stems from over 5000 years of history is not going to happen overnight....but its getting better...lets hope its even better.

Good post i agree whit you on the exposing.

Maybe boycotting is not the best way.

Just to add to what Victoria says there....

I have been on these boards a relative short time compared against others (I think about 3 years all up) but for most of that time I have considered Neil a very good virtual friend, this is also true of a number of Admin team members.

This situation has only recently changed, but it changed drastically, our Admin is uno ono as far as the team is concerned, untouchable if you like and there is not one member with all these boards that can threaten our Admin and not face a totally unified team.

Ken

And the boards members.

Cheers

It's only natural to feel sentimental to the creatures that we domesticated and cared for like our own children. And you know, Victoria, I agree with your statements 98% of the time, but to pile up all the "Easterners" as a whole and to say that they are not sympathetic towards domesticated animals or endangered wildlife, etc. is an unfair generalisation.

But the dogs being used for meat, were they ordinary housepets or were they wild animals?

You guys are missing the point totaly, its not that they eat dogs its the way they get KILLED.

Guys:

While I am strongly against eating dogs, we have to remember that they are animals and while it is widely conventional to regard dogs as domestic animals, it is not convention to some of the Asia population. This comes down from generation to generation of tradition and culture. If i'm offered dog meat, I simply just decline politely. Killing animals for food is part of human nature, so they eat a different kind of meat that we're not use to, that doesn't mean that they are evil and wrong.

In particular at the comment of boycotting the olympics....you got to be kidding me....so Spanish tradition of bullfighting is right and ethical then? Just be open minded to different culture and people. You saying that its a Global issue then directly criticize only China is a bias that you may want to reconsider. Maybe if you stop giving them your money for replica watches, they won't have money to play these "sheep into the lion den" games.

Consider that every action has a consequence, perhaps you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.....

Read my respond to anton.

Spain has gotten alot of heat for their bullfighting i hate the practice and so do alot of people in Spain and the world.

My money goes to Chinese people yes but i belive they can change, to boycott the Olympics is something that all shoud do, animal rights, human rights the list goes on and on they shoud have never been given the right to host the games.

Cheers

I think your cause is admirable, Dani. It's obvious you have much passion in it.

But I personally always check the background of any charity that I donate moneys to. Having lived in the Third World, I know all those good folks who contribute monthly funds to the "Save the Kiddies" type charities, often advertised on television late late at night, are a rip off.

Those kids don't see but a 1/10th of those funds, as the moneys get funnelled into the pockets of dozens before it reaches them. Sad but true. I once did a summer Peace-Corps "type" tour in Peru, and I was shocked to see the rampant corruption around me.

Anyway, back to One Voice. If you read it's mission statement, it'll tell you something about them:

http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/organi...on/mission.html

For the record, Th

Dani I'm sorry to say I fail to see what this One Voice can do to stop this, you need to remember that they eat these dogs and are not about to stop this practice for anyone.

I also find it hard to believe that One Voice will be able to find a way to force a communist country of over a billion people to treat these animals more humanly.

Its sad but its also a situation that wont change anytime soon.

Ken

If you just stand and do nothing what then?

Its better to try and fail then to not try at all.

I do think the same China people that make our reps under less then ideal situation is the people on this clip, not to easy to afford better food or evolve to anything better i presume then this savages.

Press play button on the website.

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/03/11/529440.html

Or you can simplu visit one voice here

http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/index.html

Also donate some cash this people need it, just did myself 100€ not much but all amounts help people.