cranium

Welcome to the forum, goHokies! In response to your question, you'll most certainly be encouraged by all members to spend some time reading through the forum ... there is certainly a wealth of information here! A great place to start is the Panerai section. Have a great day!

New from Josh (hope to pull together a review soon). In short, the transaction was perfect, but has a little QC issue ... can you see it? Yup, the hands are misaligned. Josh is already making it up to me, and I have a lello DW on its way. Then it's fixing time ... in the meantime I plan on giving it a little wrist time today just to see how it wears.

I see it! Wow ... too cool! Is that a moose?

the handmade police wins. Actually, I would encourage anyone following this thread to read this: hxxp://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm (replace the xx with tt) This should sum it up for you (from the FTC): Certain elements must undergird all deception cases. 1. There must be an intentional representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer. 2. Second, we examine the practice from the perspective of a consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances. 3. Third, the representation, omission, or practice must be a "material" one. The basic question is whether the act or practice is likely to affect the consumer's conduct or decision with regard to a product or service. If so, the practice is material, and consumer injury is likely, because consumers are likely to have chosen differently but for the deception. As "an average consumer", I don't believe either of my given situations fill these requirements ... but that's just me.

Thanks for the response, tootall. I'm still not sure why you choose to continue talking in circles (i.e., "The FTC says it, so therefore the FTC says that, and if the FTC says it, then it must be that the FTC means it ... so how can you say that because the FTC says so"). 1. I don't have a definition of hand-made. That's my WHOLE POINT ... that there is not a definitive definition of hand-made. While I don't doubt at all that you are correct in regards to the FTC's rulings, you have to remember that their primary purpose is consumer protection ... to prevent such actions as creating jewelry on an assembly line and then stamping it "Hand Made" to sell at a greater profit. I would guess the FTC has no intention (or even jurisdiction?) of being the "end-all, be-all" definitive answer for all products in all fields as to whether they can be labeled handmade ... my guitar and putter as two perfect examples. 2. Both examples I used demonstrate my beliefs. You continue to avoid them, and instead choose to live in the theoretical ... "this is how the FTC defines it". I ask you ... do you believe the guitar and the putter are NOT handmade? Are they WRONG? Does it (to quote you) "bug the crap" out of you that they define their products as handmade? Should they be fined by the FTC? Or is it possible that there actually is some leniency when it comes to this subject? Let's bring this home. Below is your VERY FIRST STATEMENT: This whole discussion has proven that this issue is not as black and white as you wish it was.

Apparently a guitar is not a worthy enough "real-world" example, so let's try something else ... Scotty Cameron (one of, if not the world's most renowned designer of clubs, by Titleist) labels just 5-10 putters a year "handmade". Titleist's definition of handmade? Lots of work! The mill is moved by hand to create the shape and not CNC. Scotty uses a Bridgeport mill. (*CNC is Computer Numeric Controlled. A computer runs the mill machine table instead of being done by hand. This allows for precision and repeatability.) FYI, here's a quick pic of a "Bridgeport": Maybe we could file a suit against Titleist and make some big bucks for this intentional and inexcusable fraud. Or MAYBE ... MAYBE ... there actually is a slight degree of interpretation whenever one uses the word "hand-crafted"?

Never mind. Your smart@$$ response sums up everything I need to know. You don't have too many friends, I'm guessing ... angry little man.

tootall, you never responded to my post. And maybe try not to quote dictionary.com or the FTC ...

tootall, While you have most certainly proven yourself the expert on the definition of "hand-crafted", I must say you have done so in quite an indignant manner. 'Tis better to be understood than understanding, eh? As a side note, I have a guitar that states on the label "Hand Made in Ireland by George Lowden". Does that imply that the electronic pick-up, the strings, and even the tuning kn*bs were made without any machine tools? Does it imply that the chemicals composing the satin finish were created and mixed by George's hands and a stick alone? Simply put ... no, it doesn't. In fact, that would be absurd to conclude. What it does mean (unless this is merely a "fabrication of my own opinion") is that this guitar didn't come off an assembly line of workers, rather it was made primarily and solely by George Lowden. Certainly someone as refined as you would say ol' George should be fined by the FTC and disgraced amongst guitar enthusiasts across the world for such actions, but nonetheless, there is a small minority that seems to disagree. These markings in fact, make it an extremely valuable guitar ... regardless of rather he used a machine sander or not. Look, the point is ... I would not encourage anyone to get their panties in a wad every time a word gets used that doesn't 100% correspond with the dictionary. Otherwise, life could potentially become one loooooong "wedgie" (noun - a shoe having a wedge-shaped heel joined to a half sole so as to form a continuous undersurface).

I thought it was because of the little gerbils that transport and deliver the tracking numbers through the tunnels bored under the ocean sometimes getting lost ...

Did you hear about the guy last year in Texas who was hung by his ankles above a den of rattlesnakes because he got caught with a rep Stetson 30-X Beaver? Ever since that dreaded day, the rep industry has become a mystery in that great, yet extremely vast state ... [wind whistles] tumbleweed rolls [/wind whistles] I think Pug nailed it ... member-to-member is going to often have different standards than dealer-to-member (especially CN). Regarding Texas, I've had no issues with Customs, but each package has gone through SFO ... then as BobM's experience, it's lightning fast with USPS. DFW is another issue.

Maybe our dealers should start selling the "By-Tor Collection Special"! Your posts and pictures amaze me, By-Tor.

Thanks for the video link. Great stuff!