Bluray Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Do you think that a rep for say 250(cdn for me) is still better than what you could spend 250 for at your local mall? In terms of quality? I know there are tons of reps so just for example Josh's Classic Sub for example. Interested in what people think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Do you think that a rep for say 250(cdn for me) is still better than what you could spend 250 for at your local mall? In terms of quality? I know there are tons of reps so just for example Josh's Classic Sub for example. Interested in what people think? Without knowing what a cdn is worth, I'd say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeWhoIsLikeGod Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) I would say your higher end eta replicas around $250-300 are far better quality than alot of other brands in that price range. It is damn near impossible to walk into any watch store with $300 and come out with a decent automatic watch. Alot of stores sell quartz for that much. However, we give up warranties and ability to walk into any watch store and have are watches worked on. So in terms of quality you get a watch that is atleast equal in quality to most brands in similar price ranges. But there are a few brands that will give you slighty better bang for your buck. Just my opinion... Edited August 27, 2006 by HeWhoIsLikeGod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitime Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 I would say your higher end eta replicas around $250-300 are far better quality than alot of other brands in that price range. It is damn near impossible to walk into any watch store with $300 and come out with a decent automatic watch. Alot of stores sell quartz for that much. However, we give up warranties and ability to walk into any watch store and have are watches worked on. So in terms of quality you get a watch that is atleast equal in quality to most brands in similar price ranges. But there are a few brands that will give you slighty better bang for your buck. Just my opinion... I agree wholeheartedly. The general quality of the higher-end reps are comparable to genuine mid-tier Swiss pieces. For example, I think that the TH Link rep is at least as good as a genuine Sandoz automatic (with the same movement), or a Swiss Army automatic watch. Given that most of the mid-tier Swiss automatics use the same ETA movements, it is not a reach to suggest that they are on par. The biggest difference, of course, is that we are foregoing legitimate post-sale service, which is one of the benefits of buying genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 The biggest difference, of course, is that we are foregoing legitimate post-sale service, which is one of the benefits of buying genuine. ... and the ETA movement in your rep is as dry as a nun's gusset. There's no quality control to speak of in reps, and they don't use decent lubricants. A rep is still better value, but if you spend a bit more on them, they can be identical quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendushi Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 ... and the ETA movement in your rep is as dry as a nun's gusset. That's very true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pman Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Pug, I just bought two swiss ETAs in the last month from a very "trusty" guy. Are you saying I should have them serviced right away because the they're dry? Should I get them serviced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluray Posted August 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Pug, I just bought two swiss ETAs in the last month from a very "trusty" guy. Are you saying I should have them serviced right away because the they're dry? Should I get them serviced? Ya I am wondering the same thing, I have read so many mixed thoughts on this. What would it cost to just get her lubed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 What would it cost to just get her lubed up? Let me just say... When it comes to lubing 'her' up... Dinner and a movie don't get you [censored] So... Better to just spend that money on an ETA servicing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I don't like picturing my ol' gals getting serviced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I don't worry much about the movements. As long as they re "ETA" or copies of proven designs, I know they can be serviced at some point and I expect they will give me years of service. What I worry more about are the cases and the quality of the machined parts. I already hace screw down crowns on several reps that are getting rougher to use and a few casebacks that screw on and off less than smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Pug, I just bought two swiss ETAs in the last month from a very "trusty" guy. Are you saying I should have them serviced right away because the they're dry? Should I get them serviced? I'm not shouting doom-and-gloom. ETAs run fine out of the box. The fact they run so well without a service just shows how well designed and made they are. They can run fine even when dry or badly lubed. If you don't get your brand new ETA serviced, will it last? Most likely, yes. Will it benefit from a service? Sure, but you'll probably not notice. Is there a need to get it serviced? Probably not, no. However, what I am saying is that when you get a new Tissot, you can be sure the ETA 2836 is in better condition than one from a replica Sub, unless you've paid for a service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I'm not shouting doom-and-gloom. ETAs run fine out of the box. The fact they run so well without a service just shows how well designed and made they are. They can run fine even when dry or badly lubed. If you don't get your brand new ETA serviced, will it last? Most likely, yes. Will it benefit from a service? Sure, but you'll probably not notice. Is there a need to get it serviced? Probably not, no. However, what I am saying is that when you get a new Tissot, you can be sure the ETA 2836 is in better condition than one from a replica Sub, unless you've paid for a service. The issue is will a movement be damaged by running without lubrication/servicing and I think the answer is probably not. Even if the worst happens and a jeweled bearing needs to be replaced at servicing because of poor lubrication, this is an easy fix. The tolerances are so fine in these micromachines, they will perform erratically or stop running before you can do any long term damage to them by running them as is out of the box. The Tissot you mentioned might give you 10 years of reliable time keeping before it needs service. The ETA in our reps might give you 3,5,7...who knows but using it until it needs service shouldn't be a long term problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 The issue is will a movement be damaged by running without lubrication/servicing and I think the answer is probably not. I agree. I wasn't trying to scare everybody, I was just stating ... well, stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I love my reps, but let's not get carried away. Hamilton, Tissot, Zeno and yes, even the much disrespected Seiko will sell you more reliable (on the aggregate), better made, warranteed, actually water-resistant watches for the same price or less than what reps cost. And anyone who seriously thinks that a Chinese Sub is a better piece of machinery than a Seiko Monster doesn't know what he's talking about. Reps are good value compared to their gen equivalents which are terrible value. We buy them because they look and handle like more desirable objects, which is a form of value in itself . . . but they're still just reps. A Seiko or Zeno might not scratch any itch you have but (anecdotal evidence notwithstanding) they will still do more and complain less than reps. I know a lot of members don't like to believe there's anything in the world better than reps -- and on the whole, they are pretty great -- but IMO that's based on a lot of different factors, a whole lot of them emotional. We're rep crazy -- let's not try to take what is basically a religion and try to turn it into a science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Oh, I forgot to add that I wouldn't sweat the movement issue. While it's true that Rolexes in theory will run for 50 or 100 years, the last time I took in my Datejust to service the movement it cost $400. Follow Rolex's recommended five-year service interval and that's a lot of entire eta movements you can plow through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekhunter Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Oh, I forgot to add that I wouldn't sweat the movement issue. While it's true that Rolexes in theory will run for 50 or 100 years, the last time I took in my Datejust to service the movement it cost $400. Follow Rolex's recommended five-year service interval and that's a lot of entire eta movements you can plow through. I'm glad you said that. Took my Rolex Datejust in for service, and they should have given me some free KY after that experience. $400.00 must be the norm. The way I look at it is that's two 'new' good Reps. The Rolex is going to have to suck it up, and keep out of my 'Rep Fund.' My Sub LV from Josh has never been serviced, been through Hell, and still is going strong. Only thing I can say is that saltwater has been hard on the pearl, even after washing the watch with freshwater afterwards, but then again, saltwater is hard on everything. No Complaints! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyclmbr Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 My thoughts are based on a comparison of my Citizen Eco-drive to any one of my eta based reps. First, they are all comparable in price. The 2836s a little less than the Citizen. The 2893s a little more. The Citizen showed signs of wear much sooner than I would have liked. The braclet showed scratches early, the mineral crystal scratched, etc. My eta based rep, the one I wear everyday shows a lot less sign of wear. The bracelet has a few scratches on it, but not nearly as many as the Citizen. The crystal in the rep is Sapphire, so no scratches. The Citizen is a quartz watch and the 2893 rep keeps time with the Citizen. Overall I think the rep is a better watch and a better value than the Citizen. If you look at what you can get at the same price point of an eta rep, there really is no comparison in my opinion. Even the Swiss Army watches using the same movements go for a few hundred more, and then you don't get a sapphire crystal. Just my 30 cents. Climb on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Oh, I forgot to add that I wouldn't sweat the movement issue. While it's true that Rolexes in theory will run for 50 or 100 years, the last time I took in my Datejust to service the movement it cost $400. Follow Rolex's recommended five-year service interval and that's a lot of entire eta movements you can plow through. were you unlucky with your rolex movement ? because i mostly think rolex claims you need services every 5 years to make even more buisness ... I own a datjust from 1967 and it was never serviced and it's my daily watch, the one i really trust when it comes to action, like ski, swiming etc... last time i did some freeride snowbording with a SMP rep, the glass had fallen off the watch at the end of the day, olso i had a PAM loose it crown guard for doing motocycle (to many vibration for the screw). One of my best friends own a GMT 1 from his grand father (made in mid 60's) and it was just serviced once, only because the watch had been 5 year without being wear at all. My buisness partner baughth itself a sub when he turned 18, and he is now 36 and he has been wearing that watch every day since then, with no service ... On the other hand, my mom lady datejust was serviced a zilion time and never kept correct time, she his now wearing a Quart :/ (the watch survived many year of travling in africa though ..) My point is that even if we can be very happy with the overall quality of the reps around, it is still no match to genuine in term of robustness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovepanerai Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) I love my reps, but let's not get carried away. Hamilton, Tissot, Zeno and yes, even the much disrespected Seiko will sell you more reliable (on the aggregate), better made, warranteed, actually water-resistant watches for the same price or less than what reps cost. And anyone who seriously thinks that a Chinese Sub is a better piece of machinery than a Seiko Monster doesn't know what he's talking about. Reps are good value compared to their gen equivalents which are terrible value. We buy them because they look and handle like more desirable objects, which is a form of value in itself . . . but they're still just reps. A Seiko or Zeno might not scratch any itch you have but (anecdotal evidence notwithstanding) they will still do more and complain less than reps. I know a lot of members don't like to believe there's anything in the world better than reps -- and on the whole, they are pretty great -- but IMO that's based on a lot of different factors, a whole lot of them emotional. We're rep crazy -- let's not try to take what is basically a religion and try to turn it into a science. I agree with your statements and would like to add; as long as we are talking ETA/Valjoux based reps we get better value; On the Asian versions I'd have to say that I yet have to get one that doesn't cause problems out of the box - either there is a hand resetting problem, date missalignment or they keep poor time. I just can't believe if people here tell us that their Asian 7750 (no matter what version) ran within COSC specs. Or is it just me always getting the ones that gain 30+ seconds to several minutes per day Edited August 28, 2006 by lovepanerai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 My point is that even if we can be very happy with the overall quality of the reps around, it is still no match to genuine in term of robustness. If by that, you mean a replica rolex will never be as good as a genuine, well, sure. However, if you mean a replica with a 2836 vs a gen with a 2836, after a service, they're identical inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlaletom Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 If by that, you mean a replica rolex will never be as good as a genuine, well, sure. However, if you mean a replica with a 2836 vs a gen with a 2836, after a service, they're identical inside. Yes you are absolutly right. Specialy because rolex is making very very robust watch and in term of design/movement respect a lot the K.I.S.S paradigm (keep it simple stupid). But it could be more acuratly be compared to a sieko en term of value. somone mentinoned sieko in a previous post and i do think the best sieko are very high quality watch even if the get very little prestige for not being a swiss brand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wik72 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Well, here's my 2 cents regarding the rep quality: First off, I have been collecting reps for quite some time now. I have an Explorer Ii, Aqua Terra, and 2 date just. Each of my rep has a couple of minor flaws, which irritates me because I'm always thinking that people might call me out for wearing a rep. So, as a result I don't get to wear my reps as much as I want too, especially at work. My Explorer Ii has incorrect marker spacing. I know they have one now with the correct spacing, but I don't feel like owning two explorers. My Aqua Terra's minute hand is too short. The same goes with the seconds hand. Finally, both my date just are a bit small(boy size) than what they should be and one of them has markers problem issue. However, each one of my reps' movement works fine so far. The movement of the reps might not be a big issue, exept maybe for the 7750s, but the overall quality in terms of looks, water resistance and durability are definite issues. Recentely, I purchased a Seiko Diver watch and a Citizen Calibre 2100 (A monster of a watch) and I must say I have more peace of mind knowing that these things will last longer. Also, I don't have to worry about the water resistance issue. Both watches good for 200 meters. Another thing with the Citizens and Seiko, they go under quality testing which ensures durability. I can't say the same for the reps. Don't get me wrong, I would still collect reps, but like few members in this forum, my standards are high. Quality before quantity. I still can't pull the trigger on the Tag Link Chrono and Bentley GT due to the 7750 issues. They looke awesome, but in this case the movement is not too reliable. I think if your going with the reps it's best to just stick to the ETAs or the Asian 21J and stay away from chronos. Also, if your anal about the details of the watch, then you should just stay away completely. Bottom line is, depending on the price of some of the reps, sometimes is better to go with the Seiko's and Citizens. It's given that Seiko's and Citizens do not always have the best looking watches, but they do have them if you look long enough. PeAce 2 U all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x86uops Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Let me just say... When it comes to lubing 'her' up... Dinner and a movie don't get you [censored] So... Better to just spend that money on an ETA servicing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I have only been purchasing reps for three years or so. But the quality of MOST of the mainstream reps these days surpasses the quality of the older reps, by leaps and bounds. Modding has only added to the quality. For 10 to 20% of the cost of most of the genuines, we are able to purchase the BEST for 250.00 to 350.00. For High Quality versions of the Daytonas and a few others the cost jumps up to 500.00 - 800.00. Even at these prices the bargain is tough to beat. NOW is a very good time to be in the rep market. My newer pieces like the PO, and the IWC's and the new generation TAG Links, are unbelievable values for the money. I often think of how interesting it would be to order these same watches without the popular logos. Wonder what a 'Perfect Sub' would go for in eta, if it had no logo on the dial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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