How to spot a rep lectures

[FxrAndy]

Has any one ever been to one of these or seen the DVD

have a look here.

I wonder if they could teach us any thing, it would not surprise me to see some of our photos in the presentation.

I would say this is a bit out of date now

[vafarmer70]

Is this for pawn shops to benefit from?

[jmarin.72]

Well...it seems to have up to date info on how to spot a rep

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rolex_or_replica.html

[Demsey]

Well...it seems to have up to date info on how to spot a rep

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rolex_or_replica.html

Yeah, that's funny j. Those 'tells' in your link may have been bonafide in '04, but now? Laughable. All of those flaws have been adressed. Most of them; years and years ago.

Here's the current 'Demsey' replica watch lecture syllabus;

1) open caseback, identify the movement, proceed with proper course of action.

And considering the current trend(s) with regard, my course will be updated in a few years. It will include the proper handling and use of a mass spectrometer for idenitfying steel grade and purity.

[FxrAndy]

Too true Dems, for the masses it is very hard these days

[jmarin.72]

+1

And maybe ine day we reach at a point where the gens copy the reps!!!

For example,i find quite handy the date quickset function on my rep

16570...i wish my gen had the same function as well

[Demsey]

And maybe ine day we reach at a point where the gens copy the reps!!!

The nicest Vacheron I have ever seen was a 'fantasy' model that 'TTK' had only 10X to sell. It was a corruption of the Malte Classique, black linen dial, arabic cardinal numerals and stick markers, but had the date @ 6 a` la the Patrimony, black croc w/deployant. My God it was magnificent. It was the only watch I contacted 'TTK' to source. I missed the boat but it was a running joke between the two of us; if he came across another, it would be the one deal we would do. Alas.

There will come a time, mark my words, that the exterior of the 'replica' will be of little discussion to the WIS. The rhetoric will be;

"It's OK for the money, the magenta is correct on the gears, but if they really want to pass it off as gen 3135 they should do a little more research into the 'Incabloc' system. The system in your photo is so obviously Etachoc. I mean c'mon, who do they think they are fooling?"

[panerai153]

Interesting article. The lecture information is obviously Way out of date! I remember buying a copy of the "Rolex Report" several years ago.What I found was most of the reps that were used in the book were terrible reps even for the 2006-07 era. I believe that Mr. Brozek made a couple of runs down to Chinatown in NYC and picked up a selection of Rolex Reps from street dealers. Even back then, there were some pretty good reps floating around, but certainly not like those of today.

I have been a rep collector off and on for several years, had some really nice ones, some pretty crappy ones over the years. The best back then in my opinion were the MBW/ watchmaster vintage models. Even them, to make them "Right" took a darn lot of after purchase work, and a fair amount of money. Wasn't anything to have over 1K in a 1680, and that wasn't putting too many genuine parts in it at that. Today, the reps we are seeing are scary accurate. Reps are fooling experienced watchmakers, watch dealers and certainly the general public. Therein lies the problem. And I believe the reason The watch industry is doing everything in its power to stamp out counterfeiting. They are truly afraid of the reps today. They are too good. How many of you fellow RWG members would buy a Rolex on Ebay? Probably none of you, unless you really trusted the seller and had and ironclad guarantee of authenticity, with a solid return policy.But we are the experts! How about the thousands of uninformed watch shoppers who troll through Ebay every day looking for bargains. They are like lambs being led to the slaughter by POS dishonest sellers who think nothing of selling a 300.00 USD Rolex rep for 3-4K. Used to be the dead giveaway was the late model expensive watch on Ebay with no box and papers. Always a variation of the story, " I got this watch as a Christmas present" I bought it from a guy who got it as a present, we moved and the box and papers were lost" We all know that no one throws away the nice box and all the papers including warranty card that come with an expensive watch. Run, don't walk away from this deal. We don't have that protection anymore. Anyone can get on the INTERNET and buy a Box set and all the papers, including a fake warranty card, and all the supporting paperwork. The folks who pass off a rep as genuine are our worst enemies. Not only are they despicable and totally dishonest, but they bring a huge amount of attention to the world of reps in general.

I'm with Dempsey. This lecture could be condensed into about 2 minutes of advice to dealers, pawnshop staff and watch buyers. 1. Get yourself some quality case openers. 2. open every case and make sure the movement is genuine (This isn't going to protect you from Frankens and Parts watches), but it will protect you from about 99.9% of reps being passed off as genuine. And for the other .1% they are probably going to be very high end watches that have been altered to increase their value. Probably the area where this occurs is with Rolex watches that are "upgraded" to be passed off as a more desirable model. would expect that if you are circulating in the rarefied air of top end watches, either you become very knowledgeable or you hire someone who is. I would expect that if you are going to spend 50-200K for a rare vintage watch, your going to be damn sure of its provenance.

My feelings are Reps are reps, genuine are genuine and never the twain shall meet.

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

[paneristi_man]

Yeah, that's funny j. Those 'tells' in your link may have been bonafide in '04, but now? Laughable. All of those flaws have been adressed. Most of them; years and years ago.

Here's the current 'Demsey' replica watch lecture syllabus;

1) open caseback, identify the movement, proceed with proper course of action.

And considering the current trend(s) with regard, my course will be updated in a few years. It will include the proper handling and use of a mass spectrometer for idenitfying steel grade and purity.

for the majority of the people even your current method will not be that easy as most of the

reps do have some resemblance of the movement. It's until you start disassembling the

movement that things become more obvious but how many watch owners would do that?

i think the next chapter on this would be:

1. Take watch to local AD, have them inspect the movement....

[Demsey]

for the majority of the people even your current method will not be that easy as most of the

reps do have some resemblance of the movement. It's until you start disassembling the

movement that things become more obvious but how many watch owners would do that?

i think the next chapter on this would be:

1. Take watch to local AD, have them inspect the movement....

True, if the replicas in question had ETA, Miyota, or Seagull etc., as OEM, Say Tag, Tudor, Seiko but the article and lecture(s) were focused on Rolex only. I am no horologist nor watchsmith, but Rolex and El Primero movements will scream their genuineness at a quick glance. They are that unique. Even to the neophyte. But sure, if ever in doubt go to a pro............................

But you are right, and I agreed in my post, there will come a day when yes, a capable and somewhat experienced watchsmith may be fooled with a cursory glance at an opened caseback to reveal a replica movement. It's already happening with 'lookalike' Rolex calibres available now. Sure the WIS here are glib as they see them as laughable knock-offs siting "Sure the rotor, main gears, bridges and engravings are good, but the balance [censored]? That is sooooo, ETA. These rep movements are a joke." However, if, 'out of the blue' four years ago someone had posted 'Rep or Real?' on RWG of the current copy movement(s), it would have been a day long debate. Most would have looked no further than the magenta main gears.

These current copy movements are merely part of the evolution. Three years ago Andrew unveiled a nickel ETA with red gears. We laughed. That was merely the first amphibian crawling out of the primordial ooze. The ones now have developed lungs. It will be interesting when we get to the Jurassic. By then maybe GAF with drop the meteorite that wasted them all.

Whenever the 'impossibility' of replica is brought up I go back to the day member 'Fast Freddy' (not to be confused with own own Freddy333) posted a 116520 with running seconds @ six and announced; "116520, Swiss 7750, fully functional chronos, correct subdial spacing and array, $2,900".

The world cried "[censored]" and even 'The Zigmeisterzumba' stated, "No way, it's impossible, if this is, it's not a 7750". Then he got ahold of one a member paid the premium for and sent him for dismantling. Oh, to have been on Rob's right shoulder the moment he cracked that open under a loup. The Asians, what have they done? They are mad!

Now? 116520, fully functioning chrono, correct subdial spacing and array, $238.

3135? Cake.

[FxrAndy]

True, if the replicas in question had ETA, Miyota, or Seagull etc., as OEM, Say Tag, Tudor, Seiko but the article and lecture(s) were focused on Rolex only. I am no horologist nor watchsmith, but Rolex and El Primero movements will scream their genuineness at a quick glance. They are that unique. Even to the neophyte. But sure, if ever in doubt go to a pro............................

A good example would be a SOSF, drop on a breitling rotor or if the makers stated to engrave them to the same standard as the 7750 reps then this watch will at a glance get away with it unless the person is a member of this forum, A little bit of polishing and finishing would fool a few more.

As it was said above the members here "are the experts", If i walked into a conversation where some one was disecting a watch with any finesse i would assome that the are a member of one of the three rep forums either active or lurker. not all of us but many here would not be fooled even if you had the best franken with gen movement, they would probably even tell where the case originated from like NDT ect

[thogaa]

interesting figure 99%

[fakemaster]

Wow spotting a rep in a macro shot.

[freddy333]

True, if the replicas in question had ETA, Miyota, or Seagull etc., as OEM, Say Tag, Tudor, Seiko but the article and lecture(s) were focused on Rolex only. I am no horologist nor watchsmith, but Rolex and El Primero movements will scream their genuineness at a quick glance. They are that unique. Even to the neophyte. But sure, if ever in doubt go to a pro............................

But you are right, and I agreed in my post, there will come a day when yes, a capable and somewhat experienced watchsmith may be fooled with a cursory glance at an opened caseback to reveal a replica movement. It's already happening with 'lookalike' Rolex calibres available now. Sure the WIS here are glib as they see them as laughable knock-offs siting "Sure the rotor, main gears, bridges and engravings are good, but the balance cock? That is sooooo, ETA. These rep movements are a joke." However, if, 'out of the blue' four years ago someone had posted 'Rep or Real?' on RWG of the current copy movement(s), it would have been a day long debate. Most would have looked no further than the magenta main gears.

These current copy movements are merely part of the evolution. Three years ago Andrew unveiled a nickel ETA with red gears. We laughed. That was merely the first amphibian crawling out of the primordial ooze. The ones now have developed lungs. It will be interesting when we get to the Jurassic. By then maybe GAF with drop the meteorite that wasted them all.

Whenever the 'impossibility' of replica is brought up I go back to the day member 'Fast Freddy' (not to be confused with own own Freddy333) posted a 116520 with running seconds @ six and announced; "116520, Swiss 7750, fully functional chronos, correct subdial spacing and array, $2,900".

The world cried "bullshit" and even 'Ziggyzumba' stated, "No way, it's impossible, if this is, it's not a 7750". Then he got ahold of one a member paid the premium for and sent him for dismantling. Oh, to have been on Rob's right shoulder the moment he cracked that open under a loup. The Asians, what have they done? They are mad!

Now? 116520, fully functioning chrono, correct subdial spacing and array, $238.

3135? Cake.

Not sure how/why I missed this when originally posted & I rarely re-post entire posts, but this 1 deserves it. This has to be 1 of the best posts I have ever read on RWG (& that is saying alot since there are MANY classics worth re-reading here).

Well done, Demsey. :good: