Yatchie Needs Love

[zetterdawg]

sdpartier posted that his Yachtmaster was in need of some love:

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic....ter&start=0

Essentially the lume had come off the 6 O'clock marker, and the movement wasn't restrained properly so the dial went "all jiggly" when you pull the crown out to wind or set the time. I offered to help fix the watch and he accepted. The watch arrived today (nice packing sdpartier!)

I took some before pictures as I worked on it:

note that the metal retainer ring is installed UPSIDE DOWN, and thus the restraining device on the right hand side with the screw in it is completely useless.

Here's the dial removed from the watch. The lume was able to slip under the side of the case lodging it between the dial and case and putting a small scratch on it visible with the loupe.

Here's a second shot of the dial, with many scrap marks on the bottom. Evidence is starting to point to this watch being a rebuild by an amateur with even less skill than me

So, after I get the dial and movement out everything looks pretty straight forward.... that is until the crystal pops right out! Yep, it was barely set in the case. WHOOPS! Ok, well, that's easy enough to fix..... until the bezel insert falls right out! What else could go wrong?

Remember if you are doing this at home, it's all to easy to push down on the crown release button and mess up the keyless works - that's a pretty easy, yet time consuming thing to fix. Lots of small parts and you need good eyes/steady hands.

Here are the parts

So I got to work, I glued the 6 o'clock lume marker back in and while it was drying I decided I'd use the scotch tape method to refinish the band which is two tone, brushed and shiny.

Here's the band after polishing/brushing:

I cleaned the dial - but was unable to eliminate a stain at the 1 o'clock marker. I reseated the crystal, reattaching the bezel, properly fitting and retaining the movement, polished the case and finally waterproofed it with silicon grease.

Here's a picture of the properly restrained movement - there was only one movement restraint device where there should have been 2 (it only came with one, the seller must have lost the other one), but the crown holds it fine until sd can get another one. Notice the metal movement ring is installed right side up

NOW THE EYECANDY!

The watch turned out great in my opinion. The rep has some of the flaws of the standard yachtmaster - not bold enough red YACHTMASTER text, the swiss made at 6 is wrong with no bolded seconds marker, the rolex font is a bit off, the dial color is wrong, but I really really thought this watch looked sweet once it was all polished up.

WRIST SHOTS!

So I said there would be a lesson. sdpartier bought this watch from a member I'm guessing and the member said it got wrecked in transit to him. That's just BS. This watch was rebuilt possibly from parts, or was an science experiment for someone with no patients. Everything that could have been wrong with this watch was wrong. I haven't had it long enough to know how the movement is at keeping time, but I have to assume there is probably going to be a problem with that. So, be careful when purchasing a used watch - they are usually being sold for a reason, and _some_ sellers are apparently not stand up guys. I've bought a couple used watches and been very happy (cwai and birdman! - good guys) but you can never be sure. Remember your reputation stands for something and I wouldn't blame sdpartier at all for calling out the member that sold him this crazy watch.

Enjoy the watch sdpartier - it's a keeper and it's convinced me I need a yachtie! I'm glad I could help out.

[Justasgood]

sdpartier posted that his Yachtmaster was in need of some love:

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic....ter&start=0

Essentially the lume had come off the 6 O'clock marker, and the movement wasn't restrained properly so the dial went "all jiggly" when you pull the crown out to wind or set the time. I offered to help fix the watch and he accepted. The watch arrived today (nice packing sdpartier!)

I took some before pictures as I worked on it:

note that the metal retainer ring is installed UPSIDE DOWN, and thus the restraining device on the right hand side with the screw in it is completely useless.

Here's the dial removed from the watch. The lume was able to slip under the side of the case lodging it between the dial and case and putting a small scratch on it visible with the loupe.

Here's a second shot of the dial, with many scrap marks on the bottom. Evidence is starting to point to this watch being a rebuild by an amateur with even less skill than me

So, after I get the dial and movement out everything looks pretty straight forward.... that is until the crystal pops right out! Yep, it was barely set in the case. WHOOPS! Ok, well, that's easy enough to fix..... until the bezel insert falls right out! What else could go wrong?

Remember if you are doing this at home, it's all to easy to push down on the crown release button and mess up the keyless works - that's a pretty easy, yet time consuming thing to fix. Lots of small parts and you need good eyes/steady hands.

Here are the parts

So I got to work, I glued the 6 o'clock lume marker back in and while it was drying I decided I'd use the scotch tape method to refinish the band which is two tone, brushed and shiny.

Here's the band after polishing/brushing:

I cleaned the dial - but was unable to eliminate a stain at the 1 o'clock marker. I reseated the crystal, reattaching the bezel, properly fitting and retaining the movement, polished the case and finally waterproofed it with silicon grease.

Here's a picture of the properly restrained movement - there was only one movement restraint device where there should have been 2 (it only came with one, the seller must have lost the other one), but the crown holds it fine until sd can get another one. Notice the metal movement ring is installed right side up

NOW THE EYECANDY!

The watch turned out great in my opinion. The rep has some of the flaws of the standard yachtmaster - not bold enough red YACHTMASTER text, the swiss made at 6 is wrong with no bolded seconds marker, the rolex font is a bit off, the dial color is wrong, but I really really thought this watch looked sweet once it was all polished up.

WRIST SHOTS!

So I said there would be a lesson. sdpartier bought this watch from a member I'm guessing and the member said it got wrecked in transit to him. That's just BS. This watch was rebuilt possibly from parts, or was an science experiment for someone with no patients. Everything that could have been wrong with this watch was wrong. I haven't had it long enough to know how the movement is at keeping time, but I have to assume there is probably going to be a problem with that. So, be careful when purchasing a used watch - they are usually being sold for a reason, and _some_ sellers are apparently not stand up guys. I've bought a couple used watches and been very happy (cwai and birdman! - good guys) but you can never be sure. Remember your reputation stands for something and I wouldn't blame sdpartier at all for calling out the member that sold him this crazy watch.

Enjoy the watch sdpartier - it's a keeper and it's convinced me I need a yachtie! I'm glad I could help out.

I would like to say something here> That watch was traded by me. The movement never left the case when my watchmaker (Owner operator of a very high end store) also a neighbor who is a good friend put it on a vibrograph and regulated it in the case. Now, I will tell you the watch came to me in a trade with Blade. However, I wore the watch on a regular basis. Swam with it, played golf wearing it and I never had an issue.

So, to your assesment I could not read it and not step up. It was a fine timekeeper, looker and performer for me and I know the member I traded it to had it for such little time that I doubt any damage or tinkering occurred by him.

As for the problems you outlined, well who's to say yeah or neigh. I may not spend alot of time here, but I have impeccable references in the Gen community and have never had a watch deal go bad.

I am glad to see you did a fine job of correcting the issue the watch had when you received it. How it got that way after it left me is a mystery. Methinks someone is full of ***T.

Justasgood

[RWG Technical]

I dont' know either of the members here, but I would like to comment on the comments about parts being installed upside down.

In your first picture you say that the "metal retainer ring is installed upside down...", I am guessing your referring to the "case clamp" the small piece of metal in the upper right side, silver in colour, and with the screw into it. It's a case clamp; the retainer ring is normally the part between the movement and the case.

As for it being upside down, I can only assume that your referring to the bend in the case clamp facing the wrong way...truth be known, there is no upside or downside for case clamps. The determining factor as to what way to install the case clamp, is how does the movement retainer ring to the case clamp groves and the movement itself line up. Installation is based on all these factors, with the important points being, excerting as little pressure on the movement but enough to keep everything solid and secure...

On some watches the case clamps are perfectly straight, on some they have a bend and the bend goes in the downward direction, on others, the bend goes in the upward direction, it all depends on the watch and using your expertise and skills and knowing what your trying to do with the clamps...

Having said that, I see many watches with the clamps missing, which was the case on this one, to say that someone was in the watch and messed it up and forgot to install the case clamp, is a stretch. Same as for the fallen out lume, it's a defect of the watch that's all...happens all the time...

The first picture shows the case retaining ring and the movement sitting perfectly flat in the case, the case clamp is installed correctly. However, your last picture where you turned the case clamp around you can see that there is a problem... it looks like the retaining ring is popping out of the watch next to the stem and crown compare the first and end pictures, from the angle that is what it looks like.

The watch should have both case clamps on it, installing only one case clamp, and putting it upside down so that there is excessive pressure on the movement and dial, having the retaining ring poppping out of the case (from what it looks like in the photo), is not the right way to do this type of work...

The correct fix would be two case clamps, installed so that there is no pressure on the movement, and also no play...

RG

EDIT

Just want to add that my comments are based on the pictures, it's hard to tell the exact position of the case retainer ring...looks like it's popped out near the stem...in any event, should have 2 clamps installed...I have spares...

Edited September 1, 2006 by ziggyzumba

[zetterdawg]

I dont' know either of the members here, but I would like to comment on the comments about parts being installed upside down.

In your first picture you say that the "metal retainer ring is installed upside down...", I am guessing your referring to the "case clamp" the small piece of metal in the upper right side, silver in colour, and with the screw into it. It's a case clamp; the retainer ring is normally the part between the movement and the case.

As for it being upside down, I can only assume that your referring to the bend in the case clamp facing the wrong way...truth be known, there is no upside or downside for case clamps. The determining factor as to what way to install the case clamp, is how does the movement retainer ring to the case clamp groves and the movement itself line up. Installation is based on all these factors, with the important points being, excerting as little pressure on the movement but enough to keep everything solid and secure...

On some watches the case clamps are perfectly straight, on some they have a bend and the bend goes in the downward direction, on others, the bend goes in the upward direction, it all depends on the watch and using your expertise and skills and knowing what your trying to do with the clamps...

Having said that, I see many watches with the clamps missing, which was the case on this one, to say that someone was in the watch and messed it up and forgot to install the case clamp, is a stretch. Same as for the fallen out lume, it's a defect of the watch that's all...happens all the time...

The first picture shows the case retaining ring and the movement sitting perfectly flat in the case, the case clamp is installed correctly. However, your last picture where you turned the case clamp around you can see that there is a problem... it looks like the retaining ring is popping out of the watch next to the stem and crown compare the first and end pictures, from the angle that is what it looks like.

The watch should have both case clamps on it, installing only one case clamp, and putting it upside down so that there is excessive pressure on the movement and dial, having the retaining ring poppping out of the case (from what it looks like in the photo), is not the right way to do this type of work...

The correct fix would be two case clamps, installed so that there is no pressure on the movement, and also no play...

RG

EDIT

Just want to add that my comments are based on the pictures, it's hard to tell the exact position of the case retainer ring...looks like it's popped out near the stem...in any event, should have 2 clamps installed...I have spares...

Hey The Zigmeister - I'm basing the "upside down" comment on the retainer ring. There was no bend in the case clamp, but the clamp wouldn't fit properly with the ring the way it was, and it fit very naturally when the retainer ring was turned around. I could definitely be wrong on this and I defer to The Zigmeister.

I came to the conclusion that someone had been in monkeying with the watch based on the following:

1. clear, deep gouges in the case back. It was taken off with a pair of pliers or something equivalently violent. My guess is any watchmaker worth his salt would never inflict this much damage on a watch. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

2. marks and scratches on the dial

3. missing parts (clamp)

4. poorly installed parts/movement/ring - the dial jiggled quite a bit when the crown was unscrewed to wind it.

5. the crystal popped right out and the bezel insert fell off within 15 seconds of each other through only regular handling during the uncasing process.

6. There was a little note on the inside of the caseback that said "I opened and monkied with this watch"

ok that last one was made up

The Zigmeister (please trust me I'm not trying to correct you) - in the first picture it may look as though the clamp is in there correctly, but I assure you if I turned the watch over at that point the entire movement would have fallen out. It wasn't clamping anything.

Now - the second clamp - yes I sent a PM to the owner saying he needed to get one of those (I don't have one onhand). and he's cool with it. I agree it needs to be fixed properly.

I don't know either the new owner or the seller of the watch, I apologize if I alluded to hijinks, but certainly this watch has a "story" and that's really all I should have said.

On another note - before people start shooting the "you should get a professional to fix your watch" PM's and posts... the new owner accepted that I was not an expert, and there was some risk, but he was willing to roll the dice on that.

[RWG Technical]

Hey Ziggy - I'm basing the "upside down" comment on the retainer ring. There was no bend in the case clamp, but the clamp wouldn't fit properly with the ring the way it was, and it fit very naturally when the retainer ring was turned around. I could definitely be wrong on this and I defer to Ziggy.

Thanks for clearing up my comments, but I am still not clear on the retainer ring being upside down, it should be installed with the cutout for the stem facing up, which it is in both of your pictures, so I am still not clear on that point...maybe the fact that only one case clamp was installed was the reason it was falling out... or maybe the pictures are hard to tell how it was installed. Normally, you can't install these rings the wrong way, they don't fit. My apologies for misunderstanding your comments...

I came to the conclusion that someone had been in monkeying with the watch based on the following:

1. clear, deep gouges in the case back. It was taken off with a pair of pliers or something equivalently violent. My guess is any watchmaker worth his salt would never inflict this much damage on a watch. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

2. marks and scratches on the dial

3. missing parts (clamp)

4. poorly installed parts/movement/ring - the dial jiggled quite a bit when the crown was unscrewed to wind it.

5. the crystal popped right out and the bezel insert fell off within 15 seconds of each other through only regular handling during the uncasing process.

6. There was a little note on the inside of the caseback that said "I opened and monkied with this watch"

ok that last one was made up

Well based on this new information, it would seem as if indeed someone was inside the watch...I have seen missing clamps, or loose clamps, but never damage on caseback, or dial damage...so whoever opened it left some damage...thanks for the clarification...

Ziggy (please trust me I'm not trying to correct you) - in the first picture it may look as though the clamp is in there correctly, but I assure you if I turned the watch over at that point the entire movement would have fallen out. It wasn't clamping anything.

I take your word for it, hard to tell from picture...

Now - the second clamp - yes I sent a PM to the owner saying he needed to get one of those (I don't have one onhand). and he's cool with it. I agree it needs to be fixed properly.

I don't know either the new owner or the seller of the watch, I apologize if I alluded to hijinks, but certainly this watch has a "story" and that's really all I should have said.

No problem on this, if ever you need some parts, just ask...I have a lot of stuff in stock in the shop...better to ask than send a watch back missing parts. I am not going to get into the middle of what may have happend to the watch...I too get some weird stuff "My watch is working PERFECT, only needs a service...", when I get the watch, it's not working at all...and broken...and I know it did not happen in the mail. So I know what your saying.

On another note - before people start shooting the "you should get a professional to fix your watch" PM's and posts... the new owner accepted that I was not an expert, and there was some risk, but he was willing to roll the dice on that.

We all have to start somewhere...there should be enough posts in my section to get you started on most of the basics, and the Time Zone watchmaking course is really good...some books to read up on as well...all it takes is time, practice, practice, practice, and did I mention - practice...

If you need a case clamp, send me your address on pm and I'll mail one and a screw to you...

EDIT "...and I will mail you a case clamp and screw." damm french brain screws up my writing...

RG

Edited September 1, 2006 by ziggyzumba

[zetterdawg]

We all have to start somewhere...there should be enough posts in my section to get you started on most of the basics, and the Time Zone watchmaking course is really good...some books to read up on as well...all it takes is time, practice, practice, practice, and did I mention - practice...

RG

you only get back what you put in.

Thanks for the advice Zig. I may take you up on the offer for part - I'm going to check the local watch repair place first.

btw, the first picture of the movement was the wrong picture to post, I messed up.

[Justasgood]

Thanks for clearing up my comments, but I am still not clear on the retainer ring being upside down, it should be installed with the cutout for the stem facing up, which it is in both of your pictures, so I am still not clear on that point...maybe the fact that only one case clamp was installed was the reason it was falling out... or maybe the pictures are hard to tell how it was installed. Normally, you can't install these rings the wrong way, they don't fit. My apologies for misunderstanding your comments...

Well based on this new information, it would seem as if indeed someone was inside the watch...I have seen missing clamps, or loose clamps, but never damage on caseback, or dial damage...so whoever opened it left some damage...thanks for the clarification...

I take your word for it, hard to tell from picture...

No problem on this, if ever you need some parts, just ask...I have a lot of stuff in stock in the shop...better to ask than send a watch back missing parts. I am not going to get into the middle of what may have happend to the watch...I too get some weird stuff "My watch is working PERFECT, only needs a service...", when I get the watch, it's not working at all...and broken...and I know it did not happen in the mail. So I know what your saying.

We all have to start somewhere...there should be enough posts in my section to get you started on most of the basics, and the Time Zone watchmaking course is really good...some books to read up on as well...all it takes is time, practice, practice, practice, and did I mention - practice...

If you need a case clamp, send me your address on pm and I'll mail one and a screw to you...

EDIT "...and I will mail you a case clamp and screw." damm french brain screws up my writing...

RG

Not that it matters but......here are the pictures of the Yachty before it shipped.

[gran]

The Zigmeister rules at Watch Repair & Upgrade

[KB]

I think the main problem here is Justasgood has had his credibility slammed for no solid reason.

@zetterdawg much of what you originally stated was refuted by Ziggy and you need to accept the your belief that tampering had occured is circumstancial at best.

Much of what you have pointed to could be damage caused by transit (lume coming out and scratching up the dial) others could be flaws the watch has carried since it left the factory, I'm sure Ziggy can tell you many strange and wonderful things (and he often does) that he finds when opening a watch direct from the factory.

I really think unless you can provide solid proof that Justasgood is trying to put one over then you need to accept that what he is saying is true.

Ken

[Justasgood]

I think the main problem here is Justasgood has had his credibility slammed for no solid reason.

@zetterdawg much of what you originally stated was refuted by The Zigmeister and you need to accept the your belief that tampering had occured is circumstancial at best.

Much of what you have pointed to could be damage caused by transit (lume coming out and scratching up the dial) others could be flaws the watch has carried since it left the factory, I'm sure The Zigmeister can tell you many strange and wonderful things (and he often does) that he finds when opening a watch direct from the factory.

I really think unless you can provide solid proof that Justasgood is trying to put one over then you need to accept that what he is saying is true.

Ken

FYI, @zetterdawg has sent me a PM apologising for pointing out the things he did. And certainly I am not railing against him or really anyone for that matter.

I am simply not up for the challenge of defending myself based on someone's assesment (keep in mind that these watches were traded for a Swiss Daytona that turned out to be Asian). The person and I worked that out to my satisfaction and I made no noise about it. But to have to keep responding to emails and now worry over this individuals tact in calling in my references in the Gen community has really done some serious damage.

I really appreciate everyon'e feedback good or bad regarding this issue. I just have never had to prove I wasn't guilty in any scenario ever........and I goota say IT SUCKS! :yucky:

[zetterdawg]

I think the main problem here is Justasgood has had his credibility slammed for no solid reason.

@zetterdawg much of what you originally stated was refuted by The Zigmeister and you need to accept the your belief that tampering had occured is circumstancial at best.

Much of what you have pointed to could be damage caused by transit (lume coming out and scratching up the dial) others could be flaws the watch has carried since it left the factory, I'm sure The Zigmeister can tell you many strange and wonderful things (and he often does) that he finds when opening a watch direct from the factory.

I really think unless you can provide solid proof that Justasgood is trying to put one over then you need to accept that what he is saying is true.

Ken

Hey Kenberg,

I did apologize and said publically said I should have stated just what I observed and not drawn the conclusions. I absolutely did not identify anyone and I feel that was appropriate. It's not my style to call someone out unless I'm completely sure.

Finally - based on the additional observations I posted (gouged caseback, crystal popping out, bezel insert falling off) The Zigmeister agreed that it did look like someone had been inside the watch (probably beside the calibration kurt had done). There is no way to "prove" that someone else was in there, and I really don't care who it was, but based on what I saw it was clear to me that it had been opened.

If it's not clear to everyone reading this - I APOLOGIZE AGAIN to Kurt and I'm just happy that the watch is running and looking fine now, no harm no foul. I learned my lesson, in the future, just the facts, mam.

I hope Kurt decides to stick around, all this will blow over.

[KenMc]

I see nothing has changed around here...

FWIW, I have also found no consistancy with the movement retainer clamps, they either have a slight bend or nothing. Not that I have as much exposure as The Zigmeister.

[zetterdawg]

maybe an admin can just nuke this entire thread and forget about it.