Best 1665 for slowly Franken-Gen-ifying

[mikejungle]

I have an MBW 1665 on the way from Eurotimez and I guess I'm wondering if I made the right choice, and if I have, what's the best way to get to Gen status.

My plan is to eventually replace the parts in this order: crystal, case, dial, insert and movement (the 1570, right?). I'm thinking clarks, yukiwatch or gen parts if I can afford it. Is it a valid plan of attack? I tried to organize it so that there will be minimal parts that are ordered that can't be installed because of fitment issues, but I could be totally off base. Are there any parts on this watch that "should be" gen? I.e. it's much better if they're gen? Are there any parts on the MBW that I can keep and have it still be quite accurate?

Is the yuki case a 1:1 match to the gen? Will anything still need modding? CG's, lugholes, etc. If there's a better case out there, please let me know.

Also, who should I send my watch to get these mods done once I get the parts? I tried taking out the movement on a watch once and I screwed up royally. It wasn't a watch I cared much about and I hadn't looked up instructions on how to do it properly, so i guess it was inevitable. I know I could probably do it myself if I tried it, but I don't want to practice on my expensive investment.

I've really done a lot of searching on the forums before asking, so please help me out. I found a few threads that suggested yuki, ndt, jewelryandwatch (reputable? never heard of them before...) but it's hard to search this forum. Am I doing it wrong? I searched "1665" in titles only, but I could not, so I went through about a hundred pages just using ctrl+f to find threads about the 1665 and gwsd/drsd.

Thanks a lot,

Mike

Edited January 14, 2010 by mikejungle

[freddy333]

I have an MBW 1665 on the way from Eurotimez and I guess I'm wondering if I made the right choice, and if I have, what's the best way to get to Gen status.

The only way to gen status is to buy a gen.

If you mean franken (mixture of gen & aftermarket parts), then read on..............

My plan is to eventually replace the parts in this order: crystal, case, dial, insert and movement (the 1570, right?). I'm thinking clarks, yukiwatch or gen parts if I can afford it. Is it a valid plan of attack? I tried to organize it so that there will be minimal parts that are ordered that can't be installed because of fitment issues, but I could be totally off base. Are there any parts on this watch that "should be" gen? I.e. it's much better if they're gen? Are there any parts on the MBW that I can keep and have it still be quite accurate?

Is the yuki case a 1:1 match to the gen? Will anything still need modding? CG's, lugholes, etc. If there's a better case out there, please let me know.

Also, who should I send my watch to get these mods done once I get the parts? I tried taking out the movement on a watch once and I screwed up royally. It wasn't a watch I cared much about and I hadn't looked up instructions on how to do it properly, so i guess it was inevitable. I know I could probably do it myself if I tried it, but I don't want to practice on my expensive investment.

I've really done a lot of searching on the forums before asking, so please help me out. I found a few threads that suggested yuki, ndt, jewelryandwatch (reputable? never heard of them before...) but it's hard to search this forum. Am I doing it wrong? I searched "1665" in titles only, but I could not, so I went through about a hundred pages just using ctrl+f to find threads about the 1665 and gwsd/drsd.

There are probably some here who will perform the entire construction for you, but, due to the labor costs involved, you may be better off buying a pre-assembled franken from jewelryandwatch, etc & then send it to Ziggy to have the inevitable shortcuts re-done correctly (I do not know of anyone that sells pre-assembled frankens which are built to any kind of quality standards). The Yuki case is nearly 1:1, but will require some enhanced patination to make it look like a 30+ year old watch ('new' 1665s are as rare as a rare version of a hen's tooth).

[mikejungle]

Thanks a lot for the reply. And yeah, when I said gen status, I just meant un-differentiate-able status with gen/aftermarket parts.

Now that I've already done the damage and have an MBW 1665 on the way, can you suggests what mods/parts and which order I should do it in? Keeping in mind that I do plan on buying the better case? Or should I find someone that will do the mods and see what they suggest/quote? If you could tell me about some reputable modders, that'd be nice. I only know of Tribal from a thread i found.

Thanks again.

[alligoat]

Taking Freddy's response a step further on a franken...

You buy a Yuki 1665 case, I don't know the price, but let's say $500

Buy a DRSD dial and hand set also, $145 on Yuki's site

Rolex 703 crown- $40, say..

Then you have to find a 1570 date movement- maybe in an old 1500 Date or 1601 DJ watch- $1000 on ebay

Service it for a couple hundred dollars

Have a watchmaker put it together, w/case clamps, o-rings, misc part or two, etc., say $150-200,

Oh, you need a vintage silver date wheel for the 1570 movt- $125.

Eurotimez MBW 93150 bracelet, WO990 580 end pieces- another $110.

At this point you have a working franken for a little over $2300, maybe...

If that's too expensive, you can go the MBW route, better bezel insert, gen crown and tube, drill the lugholes, trim the cg's- maybe spend $750 or so w/ an eta movt, still a good beater.

It really comes down to how much you want to spend! But remember, a franken will always be a franken, not a gen!

[panerai153]

Welcome to the forum. WOW you really intend to jump in feet first aren't you? First of all, a genuine Rolex is a genuine, period. You can't make a genuine with parts that are aftermarket, that's a franken, no matter what Rolex parts are in the watch. Sourcing all the necressary genuine parts to build a vintage 1665 would be prohibitively expensive. The genuine Rolex collectors are hoarding all the genuine parts that can get their hands on, looking to the future when parts are not available anywhere.

What you are trying to do from what I can see is start off with a rep and replace parts one at a time until you arrive at a genuine, is that correct.First off, the ETZ 1665 cases may or may not accept genuine parts. Crown/tube yes, dial ? movement probably not, bezel maybe, crystal maybe. So you have lots of maybes and probably one no and that's the genuine movement. If you start with a Yuki or comperable case, you would have a better chance of adding on genuine parts later.

All in all, you are trying to accomplish a very daunting and probably very frustrating task. i would not say it is impossible, because if you have enough funds, time and expertise, you can do just about anything. One thing that stands out to me is your lack of watchmaking skills. If you read the posts on this and other forums, almost everyone who has built the really beautiful "Super Franken" watches are first of all a very skilled watch person and second they have been around long enough to develop a lot of connections which helps immensly with acquiring hard to find parts, etc. There are very few watchmakers who are willing to talke a box of parts and build you a watch, possibly a few, but for the most part, they have tried doing just that and don't have the time or desire to have the hassle.

Sorry to be negative, but I would hope that you want to hear the negatives as well as the positives. At least with that, you can make an informed decision about starting a project.

Good Luck

Arthur

[mikejungle]

thanks a lot for the detailed replies...it was exactly what I was looking for.

And criticism is well noted too. I guess if it's a long term project, I know I should take up the task myself. I'm just studying for the MCATs right now with half a workload at school with a part time lab internship, so I thought someone was out there that would do this. Also, i felt that money put into watch tools would be better spent on parts. haha. But I'm very adept at tinkering and being anal about stuff, so I could pick it up eventually. I guess it was my naivete that thought I could unload all this work on someone.

So buying a yuki case isn't even a guarantee that gen parts will fit?

Maybe I'm being unrealistic with gen parts, but from what I've gathered, having at least a gen dial seems almost necessary. It seems that even the "best" dials (yuki & ndt?) seem to have their shortcomings.

I could do without a gen movement, but what would be a comparable one? People have spoken of the "vintage beat" but I'm not sure what that is.

And again, to clarify, I'm not looking to build a gen and I understand that even if all parts were gen rolex, it'd be a franken gen. I just want it to be an indistinguishable imitation of the original. Lofty goal maybe, but hopefully doable.

thanks again for the replies. they help a lot.

[panerai153]

Mike,

Been there, done that. Better do all that now, because if you get to Med school, you won't have time to look at your watch much less build one!!

The vintage beat or slow beat movement is the ETA 2846. It's pretty easily obtainable. I just had The Zigmeister drop one in my Rolex 1680 that he has been modding for me. It's a little faster than the Rolex 21000+ vs 19000+ , but it's close enough that most folks can't tell the difference, but they can with the regular ETA's that are at around 28800.

Good Luck

Arthur

[freddy333]

For reference, my 1665 consists of an MBW mid-case (with working Hev) with aftermarket (& modded) dial & crystal (Clarks). Everything else is gen

[mikejungle]

Hey Freddy, your watch is awesome. Can you give me a ballpark of how much $$$ it took you to get to that?

Mine's going to be a gwsd, by the way. I can appreciate the red accent, but I prefer the monochromatic look. Which is also why I think I'd want my bezel insert to be blacker than yours...I'm going for the Kept in its Box for Most of its Life look. Which I would think would have a very slight yellowing of the markers, and more of a brushed look on the metal parts due to its age/use.

And about the HE valve...the MBW comes with a freaking engraved 'valve'??? Do you know if yuki's case comes with a real HE valve? And which watch did you remove the 'working' HE valve from? I don't plan on going deep sea diving, but a working HE valve would be awesome.

Arthur:

So the 2846 is the one that comes closest to having similar beat? Where should I look to get one? I opted for the asian 2836 in my order because I know I'll eventually replace the movement.

And I'm studying my ass off so that I get a good score on the MCATs right now...I need to make up for my low GPA. So although I'd love to learn how to work on watches, I won't be able to if I never get into med school. Haha. I love building models, so working on watches would be very entertaining for me, but I've simply got no time at this point so I may have to put my Gen-ification on hold.

Edited January 15, 2010 by mikejungle

[panerai153]

Mike I bought mine here on the sales forum from the same member I got my 1680 from. He had two for sale at the time, I don't know if he still has the second one. If you get to that point in your project post a "Want to buy' on the trading zone. Also you may go to Ebay and find either a movement or a "Donor" watch that has the 2846 movement in it.

PM abakan, he had the one on the trading zone on Dec 4th

Freddy, yours is an object of beauty. Great example of a 1665. How easy was it to fit the 1570 movement in the MBW case? Does the 1665 case have the same crown tube opening problems that the MBW 1680 case has?

Arthur

[freddy333]

Hey Freddy, your watch is awesome. Can you give me a ballpark of how much $$$ it took you to get to that?

The project spanned a couple of years (beginning with the original mods & ending a couple of months ago with the addition of the gen bezel/insert/pearl combo), but I think the total cost (excluding my time/labor) was around $2,800.

Mine's going to be a gwsd, by the way. I can appreciate the red accent, but I prefer the monochromatic look. Which is also why I think I'd want my bezel insert to be blacker than yours...I'm going for the Kept in its Box for Most of its Life look. Which I would think would have a very slight yellowing of the markers, and more of a brushed look on the metal parts due to its age/use.

The Great White is certainly easier to wear since it is much less rare & I debated long & hard over whether the faded or non-faded gen bezel looked better on my 5514 or 1665. Ultimately, as you can see, the 'dweller won the prize.

And about the HE valve...the MBW comes with a freaking engraved 'valve'??? Do you know if yuki's case comes with a real HE valve? And which watch did you remove the 'working' HE valve from? I don't plan on going deep sea diving, but a working HE valve would be awesome.

The working valve just looks more authentic than any of the alternatives I tried (or that I have seen on other watches), which is why I went the extra mile to make it work. Others have suggested that their MBW came with a working valve, but, as indicated in my articles, my MBW's Hev was engraved. I cannot recall which watch the valve came from, but this was explained in 1 of the articles linked to the article I referenced.

How easy was it to fit the 1570 movement in the MBW case? Does the 1665 case have the same crown tube opening problems that the MBW 1680 case has?

Arthur

I posted a mini-tutorial on the process that you can search out, but, as I recall, the only problem I ran into was having to trim some metal off the (replaceable) calendar ring on the movement to allow the movement to properly seat into the MBW case. Other than that, everything lined up as if the case was made for the 1570. But you might search out that article to be sure since it has been a quite a while & my memory is occasionally fallible.

[nielest]

Hi Fred,

so does this mean a 1570 Without calender say for a 5512 project will drop into the old MBW case?

[freddy333]

so does this mean a 1570 Without calender say for a 5512 project will drop into the old MBW case?

In theory, yes. But, when it comes to aftermarket parts, theories are just that, theories.......at least until proven otherwise.

[mikejungle]

Hey Freddy,

I think I read through all your He valve threads, and I don't know if I missed it, but I can't tell which watch you got the valve from. Do you remember?

And were there instructions anywhere in there on how to do the mod on the MBW? I imagine it's just drilling with the two different sized bits, but depths, details, etc. would be helpful if you've already written them somewhere or if repaustria has. I'm having a hard time finding his tutorial on the He valve mod.

And have you swam in a pool with the watch since the mod?

[freddy333]

I think I read through all your He valve threads, and I don't know if I missed it, but I can't tell which watch you got the valve from. Do you remember?

You will need to track down the article to verify, but I think the donor watch came from either Josh or Andrew. My original 5514 (likely an early MBW), purchased more than 10 years ago, came with a working Hev & was later reborn when I stole its mid-case for use as the platform of my current 5514. I am pretty sure Josh or Andrew are still selling that same, original 5514 rep with the working Hev.

And were there instructions anywhere in there on how to do the mod on the MBW?

With pictures, yup.

I imagine it's just drilling with the two different sized bits, but depths, details, etc. would be helpful if you've already written them somewhere or if repaustria has. I'm having a hard time finding his tutorial on the He valve mod.

You will need to search the tutorial out (I am pretty sure that 1 of the links I provided contained links to the previous Hev articles), but that is the basic procedure. Drill a narrow hole all the way through the sidewall of the case (for the Hev's stem to fit through) & then countersink the narrow hole with a larger hole about 1/3 of the way into the case (for the Hev cap to reside).

And have you swam in a pool with the watch since the mod?

Sorry, I cannot help you there. I never swim with any of my gen-powered watches. Too risky since I do not have a pressure tester.

[freddy333]

Read this