My 600$ Mistake From Watchmaker9 - 18k Blue Sub

[hk45ca]

Hmmm... That bracelet in that link is from x-jewelry. I wouldn't buy that one even with someone else's money.

ok, this is what you bought. it is a tw best tt blue sub. let me guess, i can't tell by the pictures but the bezel is the most horrable royle bule you have ever seen and the dial is purple, correct? along with crown guards big enough to use for a bumper on a truck? yes i know, i have the same watch but it come from eddie lee. el is the only one that will get you a tw best but at a cost of 415.00 at last count. mine also has a second hand that is too short. is this one like that? the sticker on the back is very bad also, yes?

this is the one you buy if you are going to do a mod from hell so you will have the rehaut. a gen is 2.0 mm a cn is 1.8mm and this watch is 2.1mm

the band does have plated end links unfortunatly but the band is actually guilded with 18k gold and will last a long time. this process has been outlawed in most counties but is still in use in some 3rd world countries and is highly sought after because of it's durability. el told me it takes 4 days to plate and finish this band from start t finnish.

it's not as bad as you think but unfortunatly you had to pay too much for it to mod it. try to send it back. if you can't you will either have to mod it or sell it at a substantial loss.

search tt blue sub here and rwc and you will find some threads were el talks about these watches.

sorry man, you only buy this watch to get the rehaut when you are going on a all out quest to build the perfect sub rep.

hope this is of some help, marc

Edited September 8, 2006 by hk45ca

[hk45ca]

i for got, it should also have a very good crystal height. yes? i can't tell from the pictures.

[davidk]

i for got, it should also have a very good crystal height. yes? i can't tell from the pictures.

it is the same as my tw best 16610.

yes that was helpful Marc. I remember scanning something about the guilding, but didnt think it applied because i was told it was solid.

doesnt Joshua offrer a solid 18k version of a datejust or something like that? i don't think it is terrribly pricey considering the amount and density.

[mikellem]

it is the same as my tw best 16610.

yes that was helpful Marc. I remember scanning something about the guilding, but didnt think it applied because i was told it was solid.

doesnt Joshua offrer a solid 18k version of a datejust or something like that? i don't think it is terrribly pricey considering the amount and density.

There isn't any 18 kt solid by any dealer. The most is 14 kt solid...

Get over it, and just send it back!

[hk45ca]

it is the same as my tw best 16610.

yes that was helpful Marc. I remember scanning something about the guilding, but didnt think it applied because i was told it was solid.

doesnt Joshua offrer a solid 18k version of a datejust or something like that? i don't think it is terrribly pricey considering the amount and density.

your band is not solid but it is very thick and done with a heated process that makes the gold adhear so it will never peel or flake. when it is being done it produces a gas that is very unhealthy and that is why the process has been stopped in all but the most out of the way places. it is very desirable because of it's durability. i remember el telling me he has been wearing one of these for about 4 years and it is still fine. he will tell you this is the one to buy if you understand what you are getting and have a clear veiw of what you are going to do when you receive it.

rbj told me that the dial color is very close to the old blue subs. they were not always the color we are a custom to seeing now.

mine is getting a cn dial, second hand fitted to the cn dial, bezel insert, date wheel, cg's milled, drilled for oem spring bars and relume with super lume. i am going to live with the end links until the band goes and then i will change to a watch prince ss and solid 18k band. the gold on the band will last along time so i will have plenty of time to save up for that high dollar band.

the last time i looked on joshua's site the dj's you are talking about had been removed but they may be there now, you would have to look. ruby can get the dj with ss and solid 18k mid links. i got one of them for my wife and it is in the reveiw section here, it is very nice.

marc

Edited September 7, 2006 by hk45ca

[watchski]

this watch is shockingly bad... I am sorry you got duped by the watchmaker9 himself. I think it's best to stick to our trusty dealers like: PT, TTK, Andrew, Ruby, Jos, River, etc...

You can't go wrong with any of these... bummer dude.. that watch is horrific.. Light it on fire..

I would give you $50 bucks for it.. if you want to just get it out of your site?

[madmex]

Sorry about your bad experience, David. Keeping your cool and working it out with the dealer as you suggested seems like the best solution.

Thanks for sharing your experience, at the minimum you have helped out anyone doing research on that dealer.

Trust me, that you are not the only one that "fell for that." We all have in one way or another fallen for something--so don't feel bad.

Buying dealers and watches is hit and miss. Good thing you have extra protection. keep us updated!

[madmex]

your band is not solid but it is very thick and done with a heated process that makes the gold adhear so it will never peel or flake. when it is being done it produces a gas that is very unhealthy and that is why the process has been stopped in all but the most out of the way places. it is very desirable because of it's durability. i remember el telling me he has been wearing one of these for about 4 years and it is still fine. he will tell you this is the one to buy if you understand what you are getting and have a clear veiw of what you are going to do when you receive it.

the last time i looked on joshua's site the dj's you are talking about had been removed but they may be there now, you would have to look. ruby can get the dj with ss and solid 18k mid links. i got one of them for my wife and it is in the reveiw section here, it is very nice.

marc

PT sells some 14kt Rollies. You may ask him if he has a good 2t sub with the solid 14kt.

[By-Tor]

What's so exceptionally horrible about this rep? It looks like a typical rep of the TT Sub to me. Good rehaut and some other niceties.

Not as good as the new versions, but similar quality that we got 12 months ago (if you forget the crooked 6'o'clock marker). These TT models are very tricky watches to replicate properly. Typical noob purchases... my 2 first reps were TT Subs.

I'd like to see one of the new models in the flesh to be sure... but the older reps just didn't cut it for me.

George sells this watch (stainless steel version) and calls it MBW. It's the same TW-based Sub that River and EL sell... I think I've owned this exact same watch when I didn't know better... and had an obsession with the TT Sub.

[hk45ca]

PT sells some 14kt Rollies. You may ask him if he has a good 2t sub with the solid 14kt.

the 14k is too silver. the gold on this watch is exactly the right color if it is like mine. 14k don't cut it if you are going for that 99.5% all out look. mine matches all of my 18k jewelery and the ladies ss and 18k dj i got my wife from ruby is also the right color.

it's all up to personal preferance and how far you are willing to go. i held the ladies tt dj from ruby in my hand side by side with my wife's doctor's gen tt dj and it was the same only her doctors gen needed to be cleaned and polished. if you don't mind the gold being too light then the 14k is fine.

[madmex]

the 14k is too silver. the gold on this watch is exactly the right color if it is like mine. 14k don't cut it if you are going for that 99.5% all out look. mine matches all of my 18k jewelery and the ladies ss and 18k dj i got my wife from ruby is also the right color.

it's all up to personal preferance and how far you are willing to go. i held the ladies tt dj from ruby in my hand side by side with my wife's doctor's gen tt dj and it was the same only her doctors gen needed to be cleaned and polished. if you don't mind the gold being too light then the 14k is fine.

There are different grades of the same 14kt or 18kt.

24kt = pure gold

18kt = 75% gold, 25% other mystery metals

14kt= ~58% gold content, ~42% mystery metals

they "water it down" to make it less soft, and use a variety of metals to do that. Different metals are used for the desired properties (or cost). For instance, copper is used to make "rose gold."

Nickel would be avoided for those with nickel allergies, for instance, so there are different grades at different costs.

What I'm saying is that you could have 2 pieces of 18kt gold with different colors, depending on what metals were used in the "downmix."

[Linder]

Yes.

I believe 18K WG with Palladium is much more expensive than 18K WG with Nickel.

[eddhead]

What's so exceptionally horrible about this rep? It looks like a typical rep of the TT Sub to me. Good rehaut and some other niceties.

Not as good as the new versions, but similar quality that we got 12 months ago (if you forget the crooked 6'o'clock marker). These TT models are very tricky watches to replicate properly. Typical noob purchases... my 2 first reps were TT Subs.

I'd like to see one of the new models in the flesh to be sure... but the older reps just didn't cut it for me.

George sells this watch (stainless steel version) and calls it MBW. It's the same TW-based Sub that River and EL sell... I think I've owned this exact same watch when I didn't know better... and had an obsession with the TT Sub.

maybe so, but $600 ???!

[Linder]

Either way, I believe davidk to be more man than most.

If I was in his shoes, it would be difficult to post about it on the forum.

[rek001]

Yes, I give the guy a lot of credit, I mean, all he was asking for was a critique of the watch, not of his purchasing logic.

Thanks David for taking the plunge with WM9, I hope it all turns out well for you and you finally get a beautiful blue TT Sub.

Also hk45ca's advice regards modding the blue TT Sub was excellent, thanks much!

[By-Tor]

maybe so, but $600 ???!

Yes, the price is ridiculous. But many members have gotten utter shite for $900 from the scam sites. Compared to some really crap reps this is still a good one.

[hk45ca]

Yes, the price is ridiculous. But many members have gotten utter [censored] for $900 from the scam sites. Compared to some really crap reps this is still a good one.

i have been thinking about this since yesterday and i mispoke about the 250.00 price on that tw best tt blue sub from eddie lee.

it was my tw best rolsium ss ym that he charged me 250.00 for, the tw best tt blue sub was 415.00 from el and it is exactly the same watch you see in that picture from watchmaker no. 9. he didn't get ripped off as bad as he thinks.

excuse my incorrect stating of the price yesterday but it has been 9 months ago when i got that watch and i for got how much el charged me for it.

i will edit the original post to reflect the correct price, sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

marc

[eddie]

Okay members, I got my 16613 from Watchmaker9. I ordered middle of August and it got here yesterday. What was interesting is that he shipped it overnight from Taiwan. The tracking info states it left Taiwan Aug 30, and arrived in the USA on Aug 31.

To me it screams fake. The bezel insert sucks, and I had a OEM one to replace it with (which you will see in one of the picture)

The Oyster Perpetual font is too thick, and the date font sucks as well. The M's in Chronometer and 300m DO NOT line up. The swiss made is slightly to the left. The crown is a noticeably different color than the bezel. The one o clock marker is different from the rest (it has a thicker metal circle) The dial has the purpleish tint to it, but did not really show up in the pics. There is a sharp edge on the end link, which leads me to believe it is plated. I took a pic of that as well, but it doesn't show up well.

The only thing i like about it is the rehaut, and the lume was halfway decent as well. Also its supposed to be waterproof, but I am not taking the wrapping off, so no testing that.

To member Kevin300Z.. You stated in a thread that this would be like Luckyyy's... you were DEAD WRONG!

Okay EXPERTS! Rip it a new one!

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01986.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01987.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01988.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01989.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01991.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01992.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01993.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01995.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01997.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01998.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC01999.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC02001.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC02002.jpg

http://www.rtoforum.com/bluesub/DSC02005.jpg

David, i have the same watch only the black/gold one. Mate this is a good rep i do not know what your referring to saying that it is [censored]. Buy some others and then compair yours. Does this one feel nice and heavy and solid??

My brother is a watchmaker and a jeweler, we disasembled this watch and tested it. It has a solid 18crt gold braclet, solit 18crt gold bezel, solid rose gold crown, it is not gold wraped, we melted down one of the links, SOLID GOLD, this it why you paid $600. All other WM9 ss watches are priced the same as the dealers here, if not arn't trusty and josh selling subs for $400, just because they are made waterproof and serviced.

If your not happy send it back you know George will give you a full refund.

[eddie]

David, i have the same watch only the black/gold one. Mate this is a good rep i do not know what your referring to saying that it is [censored]. Buy some others and then compair yours. Does this one feel nice and heavy and solid??

My brother is a watchmaker and a jeweler, we disasembled this watch and tested it. It has a solid 18crt gold braclet, solit 18crt gold bezel, solid rose gold crown, it is not gold wraped, we melted down one of the links, SOLID GOLD, this it why you paid $600. All other WM9 ss watches are priced the same as the dealers here, if not arn't trusty and josh selling subs for $400, just because they are made waterproof and serviced.

If your not happy send it back you know George will give you a full refund.

[davidk]

I wish you would have documented proof Eddie, like Precious Time did. I have a hard time believeing it is solid 18kt gold. If it were solid, it would not have the sharp discolored edge in the middle of the end link.

I finally got a response from WM9, and I will post it for everyone to read. I feel like I am dealing with a Romanian on the bay. What I mean by that... I feel like I am being spun. Read and decide:

EMAIL FROM WM9::

Dear David:

My profound apologies! Both our shipping staff and I had made an honest mistake.

David, our shipping staff accidentally shipped your package to another gentleman in California, and his repaired 2 tone Submariner 16613 to you.

Our shipping staff sent me an email about this earlier on Sep 1st. And our watchmakers are making you a new 2 tone Submariner 16613. Yet, I forgot to email this important information to you. Once again, David, my profound apologies.

We understand how upset or angry you may be at the current moment, however, we would still like to ask you to give us another shot by delivering the correct timepiece you ordered to you.

If you feel like no longer have trust in us, we understand, I will reply you with the return instructions and give you full refund upon receiving the returning package.

If you are willing to give us another chance, it will be great! However, we may have to ask your patience for another 5 business days as our watchmakers are still making this new 2 tone Submariner 16613 VIP only model for you.

Please let me know.

Thank you! Have a good day.

George

Watchmaker9 support team

[rek001]

Hmm, lotsa backpedaling going on there. So this is what a "repaired" TT Sub looks like?

Does this mean he's sending you the new $679 VIP version? You paid $579, right?

Well maybe this will turn out in your favor after all, keep us posted. I am very curious as to waht you will get.

[crystalcranium]

I wish you would have documented proof Eddie, like Precious Time did. I have a hard time believeing it is solid 18kt gold. If it were solid, it would not have the sharp discolored edge in the middle of the end link.

I finally got a response from WM9, and I will post it for everyone to read. I feel like I am dealing with a Romanian on the bay. What I mean by that... I feel like I am being spun. Read and decide:

EMAIL FROM WM9::

Dear David:

My profound apologies! Both our shipping staff and I had made an honest mistake.

David, our shipping staff accidentally shipped your package to another gentleman in California, and his repaired 2 tone Submariner 16613 to you.

Our shipping staff sent me an email about this earlier on Sep 1st. And our watchmakers are making you a new 2 tone Submariner 16613. Yet, I forgot to email this important information to you. Once again, David, my profound apologies.

We understand how upset or angry you may be at the current moment, however, we would still like to ask you to give us another shot by delivering the correct timepiece you ordered to you.

If you feel like no longer have trust in us, we understand, I will reply you with the return instructions and give you full refund upon receiving the returning package.

If you are willing to give us another chance, it will be great! However, we may have to ask your patience for another 5 business days as our watchmakers are still making this new 2 tone Submariner 16613 VIP only model for you.

Please let me know.

Thank you! Have a good day.

George

Watchmaker9 support team

man....can these guys sling it

[eddie]

I wish you would have documented proof Eddie, like Precious Time did. I have a hard time believeing it is solid 18kt gold. If it were solid, it would not have the sharp discolored edge in the middle of the end link.

I finally got a response from WM9, and I will post it for everyone to read. I feel like I am dealing with a Romanian on the bay. What I mean by that... I feel like I am being spun. Read and decide:

EMAIL FROM WM9::

Dear David:

My profound apologies! Both our shipping staff and I had made an honest mistake.

David, our shipping staff accidentally shipped your package to another gentleman in California, and his repaired 2 tone Submariner 16613 to you.

Our shipping staff sent me an email about this earlier on Sep 1st. And our watchmakers are making you a new 2 tone Submariner 16613. Yet, I forgot to email this important information to you. Once again, David, my profound apologies.

We understand how upset or angry you may be at the current moment, however, we would still like to ask you to give us another shot by delivering the correct timepiece you ordered to you.

If you feel like no longer have trust in us, we understand, I will reply you with the return instructions and give you full refund upon receiving the returning package.

If you are willing to give us another chance, it will be great! However, we may have to ask your patience for another 5 business days as our watchmakers are still making this new 2 tone Submariner 16613 VIP only model for you.

Please let me know.

Thank you! Have a good day.

George

Watchmaker9 support team

Documented proof gees mate your asking alot you sound real finiky you want the exact copy of the real item, YES let me inform you it does not exsist for $600,

Presious time is only 14crt Gold and thats incorect wrong colour by a mile. Yes 18crt gold braclets are available if you know where to look NOT EBAY.

i said my brother is a jeweler for the past 20 years WE MELTED DOWN A LINK SOLID GOLD. I donot understand what the big deal is do you know gold wholesale to a jeweler is $6 a gram, that makes about $100 of gold on your two tone. What qualifications do you have to make an asumption that you donot think its 18crt gold?? your guess??

If you donot beleve me get yours melted down and tested. Iam sure you have a spare link after resizing.

And if your still not happy go and spend $8000 for a real one.

You Got a fairly close rep with real 18crt gold for $600 the authentic watch goes for about $8000, do the maths, plus not to mention its a illegal item.

Looks like George appoligised and is willing to rectify the situation.

Also mate my friend owns the original two tone, he does not care less about letter spacing, dial markers, he didnot even know it has a crown etched at the 6"position, he bought it because it was a rolex and liked the two tone. most people who own real rolexes do not know about the finer details that people here on the rep forums [censored] about.

[censored] [censored] [censored], my rehault is not deep enough, my minute hand is too short, the M does not line up, the swiss made is to the left, for F_ck sake, go and buy a skirt. Or put your big boy pants on and get the real item$$$$$$$

[davidk]

Documented proof gees mate your asking alot you sound real finiky you want the exact copy of the real item, YES let me inform you it does not exsist for $600,

Presious time is only 14crt Gold and thats incorect wrong colour by a mile. Yes 18crt gold braclets are available if you know where to look NOT EBAY.

i said my brother is a jeweler for the past 20 years WE MELTED DOWN A LINK SOLID GOLD. I donot understand what the big deal is do you know gold wholesale to a jeweler is $6 a gram, that makes about $100 of gold on your two tone. What qualifications do you have to make an asumption that you donot think its 18crt gold?? your guess??

If you donot beleve me get yours melted down and tested. Iam sure you have a spare link after resizing.

And if your still not happy go and spend $8000 for a real one.

You Got a fairly close rep with real 18crt gold for $600 the authentic watch goes for about $8000, do the maths, plus not to mention its a illegal item.

Looks like George appoligised and is willing to rectify the situation.

Also mate my friend owns the original two tone, he does not care less about letter spacing, dial markers, he didnot even know it has a crown etched at the 6"position, he bought it because it was a rolex and liked the two tone. most people who own real rolexes do not know about the finer details that people here on the rep forums [censored] about.

[censored] [censored] [censored], my rehault is not deep enough, my minute hand is too short, the M does not line up, the swiss made is to the left, for F_ck sake, go and buy a skirt. Or put your big boy pants on and get the real item$$$$$$$

Eddie, I told you why I thought it was not solid 18k. There is a DISCOLORED SHARP EDGE on the end link.. it is not smooth. The reason for this? Plating!!! I have also found brown colored scratches on other links. Solid gold when scratched will not leave a BROWN mark.

DAMN RIGHT I am picky! I could have got the same watch from another dealer for A LOT LESS! So for someone charging OVER DOUBLE, I will mos def set my standards higher. If you read the claims made by WM9, I have every right to be picky.

Im glad your friend with the gen doesn't care about these things.... BUT I DO!

[cwai02]

Eddie, I told you why I thought it was not solid 18k. There is a DISCOLORED SHARP EDGE on the end link.. it is not smooth. The reason for this? Plating!!! I have also found brown colored scratches on other links. Solid gold when scratched will not leave a BROWN mark.

DAMN RIGHT I am picky! I could have got the same watch from another dealer for A LOT LESS! So for someone charging OVER DOUBLE, I will mos def set my standards higher. If you read the claims made by WM9, I have every right to be picky.

Im glad your friend with the gen doesn't care about these things.... BUT I DO!

Blame who? Do some reserach.

or you can buy it from Bestswiss. They also claim 18k.