Odering my Submariner

[falconeye]

Hi,

I will oreder a submariner black on the forum. I just want yiou to check if I give enough information in order to not being in trouble if I receive a watch that don't feed what I was expecting.

Here are the caracteristics :

-Submariner black with date (highest quality grade 1)

-2010 Model with genuine dimensions (If you cann tell me if it's 41mm or 40mm and which Tickness ?)

-Rolex engraved on Rehault with serial number

-Ceramic Bezel (not plastic & scracth resistant)

-Movement Genuine ETA 2836-2, swiss made, new and never used, not a copy,

-"Reserve of marche (the watch must work) at least 40 hours after being winded and without being worn

-Sapphire crystal glass

-Solid case 316L Steel and scratch resistant

-Solid and resistant CROWN (not pulling up after some years)

-All Rolex check control present on the watch like genuine

-Water resistant

If you see some other informations to add, please tell me.

I will show you pics when I have

Bye

[TeeJay]

Who are you planning on buying from? I'm sorry, but I think your expectations are unrealistic for a replica watch...

[falconeye]

Who are you planning on buying from? I'm sorry, but I think your expectations are unrealistic for a replica watch...

What expectations are unrealistic ?

[TeeJay]

I've highlighted the ones which're unrealistic.

-Submariner black with date (highest quality grade 1)

-2010 Model with genuine dimensions (If you cann tell me if it's 41mm or 40mm and which Tickness ?)

-Rolex engraved on Rehault with serial number

-Ceramic Bezel (not plastic & scracth resistant)

-Movement Genuine ETA 2836-2, swiss made, new and never used, not a copy,

-"Reserve of marche (the watch must work) at least 40 hours after being winded and without being worn

-Sapphire crystal glass

-Solid case 316L Steel and scratch resistant

-Solid and resistant CROWN (not pulling up after some years)

-All Rolex check control present on the watch like genuine

-Water resistant

You might be lucky and get 40 hours power reserve out of a movement, but getting a new and never used genuine Swiss made ETA 283-2, is unlikely. The bezel might be ceramic, rather than ceramic coated, but aesthetically speaking, it would make no difference. As for the 316L Stainless, there was a discussion about that some time ago, here's a link to the results. The crowns of replica watches (especially the Omega Planet Ocean) are well known weak points in the build quality.

If you want a watch with all Rolex check controls, buy a real Rolex, nothing else (in terms of replicas) will meet that standard of quality control and checking.

What is available to buy as a replica can be of very good quality, but they are not really to the level which you have described, and I think if you were to order a watch thinking you would receive those kind of checks/metallurgical make up/movement etc, you would be disappointed, and you might be better off trying to source parts to build the watch yourself, so you have precisely what you want Best of luck with your purchase though

[FxrAndy]

Go and buy the gen you will never be happy with expectations like yours

[panerai153]

I agree with the members above, your expectations are not realistic. You are expecting 6 thousand dollar quality from a 300-500 dollar watch. It isn't going to happen. I can assure you none of the reps, no matter who they come from, are submitted to the quality control that Rolex carries out.

I would say that the closest that you will come to what you want would be a WM9/BK Submariner, and unfortunately, they don't make the model you want. They haven't come out with a Ceramic Bezel Submariner, and at the rate of their current projects, it may not happen in your lifetime!!

Someone suggested that you build your own. I believe that that approach is very feasible with older Rolex models, but to build a 2010 Sub is going to be impossible. Rolex is really cracking down on their "parts only" accounts. Some of the new stuff is impossible to source. I tried to source a genuine crystal for my Ceramic GMT II, Impossible. The source I have used couldn't get one and all his colleagues he tried told him the same thing, Rolex has it on "Backorder", but they suggested the watchmakers send the watch to a RSC (Rolex Service Center) for the new crystal. Polite way of telling them, we aren't going to sell you these new parts.If you have a watch that needs a part, it's going to have to go to a RSC for repair.

So my advice to you would be either buy a genuine Rolex, or ratchet back your expectations for a replica.

[falconeye]

I've highlighted the ones which're unrealistic.

-Submariner black with date (highest quality grade 1)

-2010 Model with genuine dimensions (If you cann tell me if it's 41mm or 40mm and which Tickness ?)

-Rolex engraved on Rehault with serial number

-Ceramic Bezel (not plastic & scracth resistant)

-Movement Genuine ETA 2836-2, swiss made, new and never used, not a copy,

-"Reserve of marche (the watch must work) at least 40 hours after being winded and without being worn

-Sapphire crystal glass

-Solid case 316L Steel and scratch resistant

-Solid and resistant CROWN (not pulling up after some years)

-All Rolex check control present on the watch like genuine

-Water resistant

You might be lucky and get 40 hours power reserve out of a movement, but getting a new and never used genuine Swiss made ETA 283-2, is unlikely. The bezel might be ceramic, rather than ceramic coated, but aesthetically speaking, it would make no difference. As for the 316L Stainless, there was a discussion about that some time ago, here's a link to the results. The crowns of replica watches (especially the Omega Planet Ocean) are well known weak points in the build quality.

If you want a watch with all Rolex check controls, buy a real Rolex, nothing else (in terms of replicas) will meet that standard of quality control and checking.

What is available to buy as a replica can be of very good quality, but they are not really to the level which you have described, and I think if you were to order a watch thinking you would receive those kind of checks/metallurgical make up/movement etc, you would be disappointed, and you might be better off trying to source parts to build the watch yourself, so you have precisely what you want Best of luck with your purchase though

Hi,

Watch international told me that the Bezel is ceramic and not plastic.

They also told me that the movement will be ETA 2836-2 will be genuine and new.

All replica seems to have their case 316 L no ?

Why are crown are not solid on replicas ? I bought a replica but after some months, the crown was broken. This point is very important for me, like genuine movement.

By Rolex check control, I mean, having the a serial number engraved, the sticker,.... Not the quality of Rolex but the things that make it looks like a genuine Rolex.

[TeeJay]

Hi,

Watch international told me that the Bezel is ceramic and not plastic.

They also told me that the movement will be ETA 2836-2 will be genuine and new.

They might mean that the insert is ceramic-coated metal, not plastic. Ceramic-coated, while being more durable than the painted metal insert of older Submariners, will still not be 100% scratch-proof. Without destroying the insert, you are not really going to be able to tell either way if it is truly solid ceramic or just ceramic-coated...

All replica seems to have their case 316 L no ?

As in my previous reply, there was a discussion a while back where replicas have been scientifically proven to not be 316L. If a dealer is advertising this, chances are they are lying.

Why are crown are not solid on replicas ? I bought a replica but after some months, the crown was broken. This point is very important for me, like genuine movement.

For the simple reason that they are replica parts, so not made from the same grade material as genuine Rolex. I have a replica nearly two years old where the crown is as good as the day I received it. I used to have an Omega Planet Ocean replica which had to have the crown and tube replaced as the threads had stripped. Many things about replica watches can be 'luck of the draw'. Crowns and tubes can always be replaced with genuine parts, but this requires either the skills to do the work yourself, of contact with a good watchsmith or watch builder who can make the switch for you.

By Rolex check control, I mean, having the a serial number engraved, the sticker,.... Not the quality of Rolex but the things that make it looks like a genuine Rolex.

Ahh, I understand. Some watches have a serial numbers engraved, some do not, it seems to be pretty much the luck of the draw as to what stock is available. Same with the sticker... Sometimes it is holographic, sometimes it is just a green sticker. Price is not an accurate gauge in this matter... I bought a replica 5517 Submariner for about £30 which has serial number and model number etched between the lugs. I bought a replica GMT Master II from the same dealer, for a similar price, which does not have a serial number or model number etched between the lugs. However. The GMT Master II does have the correct bracelet and clasp, rather than having the bracelet and clasp from a Submariner installed, which was what happened with a previous GMT Master II I bought (and have since converted into a Tudor 79190).

To be perfectly honest with you, Asian movements can be adjusted to keep just as accurate time as a Swiss movement, there is no need to pay the additional cost for a 'Swiss movement' (which will probably only be an Asian clone) This also saves on repair costs... A mechanical movement requires servicing appx every 5 years. While many watchsmiths will not work on Asian movements, if you can install the movement yourself, it would be cheaper to buy five new asian movements (at least) compared to the cost of getting one serviced. As before, I think your expectations are unrealistic considering you are buying a replica watch. Unless you plan on dismantling the watch and observing it daily, it really does not matter if the watch has serial numbers, a sticker on the caseback or a swiss movement. Besides, it says Rolex on the dial, so anyone seeing it will believe it to be fake regardless of how perfect it is, because in the minds of many, Rolex = Fake (because the brand is so widely known to be copied) As others have said, if that really is the level of detail/perfection which you must have in the watch, buy the real thing. People will assume that is fake as well (because it also says Rolex on the dial) If, on the other hand, you simply want the best replica available, then I'm sure you will be happy with your purchase

[falconeye]

They might mean that the insert is ceramic-coated metal, not plastic. Ceramic-coated, while being more durable than the painted metal insert of older Submariners, will still not be 100% scratch-proof. Without destroying the insert, you are not really going to be able to tell either way if it is truly solid ceramic or just ceramic-coated...

As in my previous reply, there was a discussion a while back where replicas have been scientifically proven to not be 316L. If a dealer is advertising this, chances are they are lying.

For the simple reason that they are replica parts, so not made from the same grade material as genuine Rolex. I have a replica nearly two years old where the crown is as good as the day I received it. I used to have an Omega Planet Ocean replica which had to have the crown and tube replaced as the threads had stripped. Many things about replica watches can be 'luck of the draw'. Crowns and tubes can always be replaced with genuine parts, but this requires either the skills to do the work yourself, of contact with a good watchsmith or watch builder who can make the switch for you.

Ahh, I understand. Some watches have a serial numbers engraved, some do not, it seems to be pretty much the luck of the draw as to what stock is available. Same with the sticker... Sometimes it is holographic, sometimes it is just a green sticker. Price is not an accurate gauge in this matter... I bought a replica 5517 Submariner for about

[TeeJay]

Hi,

Thanks for all your explication, it clearer now. What I am expected is not more than having a watch that work corectly (not having to wind it every day when iti is worn) and being enough resistant to not having 300 $ drop away.

When I see my analog casio that cost 90 $ and its quality and resistant, I can't understand why for 300 $ (that can be a mensual revenue in china) watchsmith cannot realize a certain level of quality with good movement.

here you can see that the watch is 316 L

http://www.watch-international.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_29&products_id=743

So relying on your scientific tests, it is not 316.

How don't know how I can know if it is genuine or not but I don't want to have a watch that had its case with silver metal going away and have the case yellow after some years.

If I send you some pics of my purchase, will you be able to tell me if it's a good choice or not ?

Thanks.

No problem, I'm glad to be of help. Things like dealers saying that a case is 316L, falls under the category of what is described on this forum, as 'Little White Lies'. In some instances, it is just marketing hype on the part of the dealers, in other instances, it can be where a dealer is not an expert in watches, but is literally just a person 'selling a product', so if their suppliers tell them that the case is 316L, they believe what the supplier tells them... (Not the best business practice, but that's simply the nature of the game ) Even if the case is not 316L, it will still be Stainless Steel, so it will not go yellow with wear. When I (and many others) have artificially aged cases for vintage projects, it has involved sanding them and striking the cases with sharp things and drilling through the lugs, and that has always just revealed more stainless steel, not yellow metal, so the cases are not plated to look silver, they are just not the same grade of stainless steel as would be used in a genuine Rolex.

Looking at the watch shown in the link, I think you will wind up with a good quality watch, which will not need winding daily, and with the correct periodic servicing (which all mechanical watches require), it should last a lifetime

[falconeye]

Teejay,

I am very happy with your advices. I learn a lot of thing just by this post. I hope this watch will be good. It is not for me but for my Dad. He love the submariner style.

Where did you purchase your replicas ? Did you have problems with customs since you are in UK (I am in France).

[TeeJay]

Teejay,

I am very happy with your advices. I learn a lot of thing just by this post. I hope this watch will be good. It is not for me but for my Dad. He love the submariner style.

Where did you purchase your replicas ? Did you have problems with customs since you are in UK (I am in France).

It's no problem, I'm happy to help I've bought mine from various dealers over the years, depending on financial commitments. This is a link to the dealer who I bought the GMT Master II from, which I recently reviewed and modified, and it will allow you to view not only their goods for sale, but also feedback from their buyers. I don't think they have the 2010 Submariner which you are interested in, but they do have a nice range of budget watches, which, while not perfect, are certainly good value for money I have never had any customs problems with watches at all

[falconeye]

I saw this on that seems not too bad. It seems to have the right size, has the Rolex engraved,... It 's written the watch has a 2836-2 ETA movement, do you think it's a genuine movement or an ETA copy ?

I don't know why sometimes Submariner replica has 41mm case and sometimes 40mm, do you know ?

Thanks

[vlydog]

If you really interested in the best Rolex sub for the money extend your budget a bit a get a WM9.

It is a no-brainer IMO.

[kbh]

If you really interested in the best Rolex sub for the money extend your budget a bit a get a WM9.

It is a no-brainer IMO.

He's looking for a ceramic 2010 model.

Since it's for his father, I bet his father would like the original Sub model better anyway. I know I would. I think the OP should have a look at the SSD. That's about as close to gen you can find other than the WM9 Sub.

[falconeye]

I choose the 2010 model for my father because I tought it was better but a 2009 model will be ok for him. It's too dificult for me to purchase a genuine for him And I think he will be furious if I bought a genuine for him

What i the price of a WM9 ? And who is selling a WM9 ?

[vlydog]

send bklm1234 a PM.

E-mail: bklm1234@gmail.com

http://www.rwgforum.com/forum/196-bks-watch-garage/

[TeeJay]

I saw this on that seems not too bad. It seems to have the right size, has the Rolex engraved,... It 's written the watch has a 2836-2 ETA movement, do you think it's a genuine movement or an ETA copy ?

I don't know why sometimes Submariner replica has 41mm case and sometimes 40mm, do you know ?

Thanks

I wouldn't like to say if the movement would be a genuine or an Asian clone, but as mentioned before, even the cheaper Asian 21j movements can be adjusted to as accurate time keeping as the more expensive movements, so personally, I cannot see the point in spending the extra money... As for why sizes are listed differently, I would not like to say... As mentioned above, the WM9 Sub really is the best available

[falconeye]

In order to not having problem with mechanism, do you know if it does exist Subamariner replicca that are quartz mechanism (with the continous movement of the needle ? Having a replica serviced can be difficult and may have more problem than a quartz one. It souhld be great to have a replica lloking exactly a Rolex but with quartz mechanism.

[TeeJay]

In order to not having problem with mechanism, do you know if it does exist Subamariner replicca that are quartz mechanism (with the continous movement of the needle ? Having a replica serviced can be difficult and may have more problem than a quartz one. It souhld be great to have a replica lloking exactly a Rolex but with quartz mechanism.

To be fair, mechanical movements are pretty reliable, it is just like with a car, they need periodic servicing I'm not aware of any quartz replicas available which are of a decent quality. If you really wanted a quartz movement, you could always try looking for a cheap quartz watch on eBay with the right kind of hands, and then swap the movement into the Submariner

[falconeye]

To be fair, mechanical movements are pretty reliable, it is just like with a car, they need periodic servicing I'm not aware of any quartz replicas available which are of a decent quality. If you really wanted a quartz movement, you could always try looking for a cheap quartz watch on eBay with the right kind of hands, and then swap the movement into the Submariner

I think I will purchase a mechanical one even if it will be difficult to have a replica serviced.

Hopoe watch international will be a great dealer...

[valerian]

TeeJay, you're a class act. No sneering at yet another Sub seeker just friendly and honest information.

Am I mistaken or does this thread contain just about everything you actually need to know about purchasing your first sub?

falconeye, good luck with the purchase. I personally own the WM9 Submariner. It's on the expensive side for a rep but if you're into the details it's worth it. Maybe your father will be happy with something cheaper, though.

Kind regards

Valerian

[TeeJay]

I think I will purchase a mechanical one even if it will be difficult to have a replica serviced.

Hopoe watch international will be a great dealer...

Servicing a movement is not really a problem, as even if you can't take the watch in to a watchsmith for repairs (some will work on reps some won't, and given the law in France, I wouldn't want to risk it) but, as mentioned before, if you have the skills, you can swap out a movement in about 10 minutes (assuming all goes well ) and failing that, there are watchsmiths on the forum who can do the work as well, including a few base in the EU, so as to avoid customs issues Best of luck with you purchase

[TeeJay]

TeeJay, you're a class act. No sneering at yet another Sub seeker just friendly and honest information.

Am I mistaken or does this thread contain just about everything you actually need to know about purchasing your first sub?

falconeye, good luck with the purchase. I personally own the WM9 Submariner. It's on the expensive side for a rep but if you're into the details it's worth it. Maybe your father will be happy with something cheaper, though.

Kind regards

Valerian

Thanks, amigo, just trying to do my part to help

[beocreem]

Hi Guys,

I have the submariner edition 2010 with ceramique bezel from Watch Internal. And it's unbelieveble.

Only thing i could find was:

The band scratches very fast...

The band is overal not soo good quality, i tried to smallen it, and broke 3 screws..

Do not mistake, the band feels super! but it seems i got one, where someone [censored] up all the screws...

The Glidelock is fixed.... so it looks like e glidelock, but it doesnt funtion.

The Replica of this one is heavyer then the Gen 2008 version. ( 156 grams // 136 grams )

I am waiting to get to my brother in law, he's got the gen, then i will try and put my first review online

PS

Bought almost 20 replica´s from Watch intenational... Great dealer!

Edited April 21, 2010 by beocreem