DSSD Ultimate: Clones being sold as ETA's Beware

[ThinkBachs]

As most of you may know, my journey with this DSSD started with the purchase from another member who received this watch from Josh. The description was:

To quote Josh site:

"The Ultimate Version of DeepSea ...Same Deep rehaut as Genuine. Crisp Engraving within Lugs, Excellent Pearl and Lume on Dial... Updated Bevelled Edge Date window....Parts interchangeable (Except Dial and Movt) interchangeable with the Genuine.

Made with a Genuine watch as Sample..."

This one is made of 316F steel that is much brighter and closer to how gen rollies look like. These watches are available in asian rolex clone movement or swiss eta. I chose swiss eta.

As we all know, purchasing a watch with an ETA movement is a bonus. Many know also that there really isn't much difference between the gen ETA and a clone. The clones work great for the most part and are cheaper than the ETA. What the dealers know is that they can charge more for a gen ETA than a clone. What many suspect, and fewer know is that some dealers actually claim that the clone is the ETA to take the most they can from their customers.

What makes them think they can get away with it?

• First, the clones are very good copies of the gen ETA. For many, it's hard to tell the difference without knowing the tells.
• Second, most people don't open their watches, and even fewer have them serviced by someone who can tell the difference.
• Third, the odds of not being called out are on their side. Once someone does discover they've been had, there's a chance that they won't say anything because they're embarrassed or because they want to sell it the same way it was sold to them. Please note that I said "chance." There are many who are serious about this hobby and take pride in being honest. For them, integrity is more important than a few extra dollars. For this dealer, not having integrity adds up over the thousands of watches sold and a healthy bank account.

The Josh watch I purchased from another member was serviced, and the ETA was proven to be a clone...

I'm not crying about the fact that it's a clone Vs an ETA. What I am saying is that when this dealer charges a premium price for claiming that a watch has a different movement than it actually does, this cannot be a trusted dealer, and should be taken into consideration when deciding who to support.

Some may ask, "Hey Andrew, how do you know that the watch actually came from Josh, and why trust that person over the dealer?" My response is that the seller is a trusted member here on the forum, and has a great deal of integrity. He sold the watch under the assumption that what Josh described was honest and accurate. He even opened the watch and it looked like an ETA to him. Many of the watches you will find in the member sales section will be sold under the same assumption. For those that are selling a watch claiming it's an ETA, this is why you are asked to take a photo of the movement. It's not that they don't trust you, it's that they need to be sure that what you were told is accurate.

–noun

reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence.

In my opinion, any Josh watch that is claimed to have an ETA movement needs to be verified. Because there are questions about Josh's integrity, there's no way that he can be considered a trusted dealer.

Edited May 17, 2010 by ThinkBachs

[ThinkBachs]

Adding fuel to the fire, here is a replacement insert from Josh for one of his DSSD Ultimates that another customer received with an off-center pearl...

[Bansenshukai]

Wow! I've purchased quite a few watches from Josh, to include the latest version of the DSSD. It has worked great. Tremendous accuracy - even for a gen - awesome performance overall. But, if he is indeed selling watches while being deceitful, that it truly wrong and should not be supported. Once you cross the line by double-crossing your very support base, there are few other boundaries you'll not be willing to cross if successful. I wonder how prevalent this practice is, if it's true.

[ThinkBachs]

All I can do is share a personal experience. Whether it's a common practice for every watch, or every transaction, no one can ever say. I've also purchased from Josh in the past without a problem. Some may argue that because of his volume, he may have been fooled himself. To this I say that if you're going to claim something, there is an expectation that it's accurate, regardless of your sales volume. This is just my small effort to hold a dealer accountable for a false claim and to bring awareness to those expecting a superior or "Ultimate" product and the experience of others who have not received what they expected...

Edited May 17, 2010 by ThinkBachs

[Rolexman]

An off center pearl... so what. All part of the game. Almost all items are drop shipped. I do believe even our dealers sometimes don't know if our rep is equipped with a gen or a clone movement. Maybe they get tricked by the factories too?

So what lesson can we learn out of this? NEVER pay premium for a gen ETA if a clone is available and if you buy one second hand always asume it's a clone untill proven otherwise.

[slickdick]

It is no secret, with rep rollies customers getting scammed in thinking buying a gen rollie. Now since rep eta's buyers will get scammed into thinking they buy eta. Indeed people are being too naive. Take rolexmans advice, expect a clone and pay for clone, not a penny more.

On the other hand, what bothers me is senior members actually defending the cartel ( for example, however there are more) or even put a nice colored feather up their butts, while fact is the white lies keep going on and is straight against why rwgforum or the orginal TRC are set up in the first place. Dont get me wrong, not saying the cartel is a scam business, probably they get scammed by the factory (because they dropshop_ and ARE willing to work if one can prove not getting what they payed for. However this should not be the customers problem in the first place. The fact that senior members beautify dealers, will raise the threshold for noobs or others for that matter, to come out. IMO resulting in an opposite effect of RWG's goals ie to prevent scamming of any kind and keep an open mind.

[Mickey Padge]

I won't buy from the twins ever again, zero QC and drop ship all the way, each and every time. I see no reason to buy from them at all, the same watches can be sourced from other dealers, who inspect each watch and send pictures of the watch you will receive before delivery....

My last purchase from Mary was a fantastic Chopard chronograph, just over $100 less than the cartel dealers, and full QC/pictures before delivery to boot, can't be beat

Cheers!

[Jos Nana]

Did you purchase this watch directly from me ?

If you have not.. Then please... take this matter to whoever sold this watch to you .

You are trying to start a flame here based on someone else's watches . Not a watch you have purchase from me.

Thanks

joshua

[TwoTone]

Loop moved out of Josh's Review Section and into GD...

PM's sent to both the OP and Josh...

TT

[ThinkBachs]

Did you purchase this watch directly from me ?

If you have not.. Then please... take this matter to whoever sold this watch to you .

You are trying to start a flame here based on someone else's watches . Not a watch you have purchase from me.

Thanks

joshua

I had a great and lengthy post to reply with but lost it all when Firefox froze as I was previewing a couple images to add here. The summary:

Thanks for the response. Unless you're checking every single watch you sell, you're doing the same as I as far as relying that person you're getting the watch from is giving you accurate information about it's construction. I trust the person who sold the watch and have no reason to doubt that all of the facts supplied were accurate.

Overall the watch is very good quality with the best dial I've seen on any version, hands down. When I'm a little less aggravated about losing all that hard work, I'll post a review on the watch. If you think that after all the points are made, you still want to suggest it's another vendors watch, then I suppose that would be good news for them.