Rolex Space Dweller "2" prototype

[mastergod]

Feeling creative? I hope so.

A project I´ve been working on for a while will soon hit DOMI for finishing and assembly. I guess it's a "what if" project ... "what if Rolex made a Space-Dweller II based on the 1655". Its my humble shot at outcooling the genuine vintage sports Rolexes and getting the exact watch that I want as a beater.

These decisions are made:

- 1655 case w/o cg, bead-blasted for a grey finish

- 8mm crown

- 24 hour hand stays (but it doesn´t have to be the 1655 hand)

- Inverted DW (silver writing on black) EDIT: GAVE UP

- Biggest ever custom secs hand will stretch across the entire dial diameter: EDIT: MORE MODERATE HOWEVER SUPER-WOW HAND SELECTED

But what about the dial (will be custom made). Any ideas on something simple, believable and unique? You are hereby invited to send inspiration, ideas or provocations. In the form of words, links to existing dials or pics - anything.

Thanks!

MG

[TeeJay]

Give me an hour, I'll see what I can come up with

[TeeJay]

Okay, my graphics program kept crashing, so I had to do this as a real rush-job to just convey the basic idea, rather than fine-detail. I think it combines the excellent visibility of the 3,6,9 dials, with the long second markers of a Tudor 79190, with the additional 24 hour markers of the 1655, with an attempt do distinguish the main hour markers from the additional 24 hour markers, to reduce the cluttered look which the 1655 dial suffers from, I hope you like it

[Dudemeister]

I think that if you're going to do a watch that's to be worn in space, it should be a 24 hour dial, not 12, as there is no day and night there. Technically, depending on what planet you might be, the 24 hour concept is out too.

[mastergod]

Nice thoughts there guys. It sure is refreshing to be forced away from of one's usual pattern of thought.

A 24-hour dial! Interesting. The 1665 having 24 hrs markings on the bezel - in which case one would assume hour indexes taken care of - perhaps I only need mins/secs/subsecs (as per chronograph) on the dial?

Hopefully there will be even more input - after that I hope we can have a discussion as I will start sketching.

As I say - please keep ideas coming,

MG

[southcoast68]

How about just using the GMT function as the hour hand (do not mount a hand to the normal hour wheel). Then, label the dial in 24 hour time (normal 6:00 would be labeled 12:00, normal 9:00 be labeled 18:00 and so on). This way, one revolution of the hour hand would be a full 24 hours instead of 12 hours, then mark the bezel in minutes. Sounds like a fun project!!

Cheers

[TeeJay]

I would suggest sticking to a 1655-style dial, for the very reason it was designed. While being in space, as with caving, night and day can be relative concepts, but the human body still maintains circadian rhythms. The reason I suggest sticking to a dial with 24 hour markers on the dial, rather than relying solely on the bezel for hour markings, is so that lume can be applied, rather than attempting to lume the bezels 24 hour markers (It would also ensure that even if the bezel was to come off while wrestling with a Klingon, the watch would still maintain readable hours ) What I would like to do (but my art package has now totally died) would be to replace the 6 marker with another triangular marker, and replace the 9 marker with the same rectangular marker as on the other 'main' hours. That way, it would be more compatible with the 24 hour system, but still maintaining a familiar 12 hour style, to assist with the wearer's circadian rhythms

[mastergod]

Damn, gotta love this forum.

For vanity reasons, I think I might consider getting rid of the triangle at 12 (found on Explorer, Sub, SD, GMT) and instead have a bigger crown logo (as per Milgauss, Daytona etc). Just thought I

[mastergod]

I would suggest sticking to a 1655-style dial, for the very reason it was designed. While being in space, as with caving, night and day can be relative concepts, but the human body still maintains circadian rhythms. The reason I suggest sticking to a dial with 24 hour markers on the dial, rather than relying solely on the bezel for hour markings, is so that lume can be applied, rather than attempting to lume the bezels 24 hour markers (It would also ensure that even if the bezel was to come off while wrestling with a Klingon, the watch would still maintain readable hours ) What I would like to do (but my art package has now totally died) would be to replace the 6 marker with another triangular marker, and replace the 9 marker with the same rectangular marker as on the other 'main' hours. That way, it would be more compatible with the 24 hour system, but still maintaining a familiar 12 hour style, to assist with the wearer's circadian rhythms

TeeJay, I

[TeeJay]

Damn, gotta love this forum.

For vanity reasons, I think I might consider getting rid of the triangle at 12 (found on Explorer, Sub, SD, GMT) and instead have a bigger crown logo (as per Milgauss, Daytona etc). Just thought I

[mastergod]

Heres another version. The idea on this one is to not use hrs indexes, relying on the bezel indexes and fatter minute indexes where the hrs indexes would be.

The secs hand WILL be that big. However I´d be interested to hear any reservations against it, which I suppose there might be. What about the colour? Could be either tritium or fluorescent orange I thought. Vintage Tritium?

Working on TeeJays idea now...

mg

[mastergod]

TeeJay - is this what you mean? Surely it cant be. Or?

mg

BTW heres a rough pic of the case/new crystal/8mm DSN Brevet

[TeeJay]

Heres another version. The idea on this one is to not use hrs indexes, relying on the bezel indexes and fatter minute indexes where the hrs indexes would be.

The secs hand WILL be that big. However I

[mastergod]

Trying to enhance visibility of "hours" on dial. Here are two new rough versions. This one uses mins/secs numbers (I'd use the flat 3 font from dw on dial if went for this design) . problem with this one - no room for lume!!

This one would have lumed cubic 5-minute/hour indexes:

...But still no idea how to include 24hrs indexes without cluttering the dial. Maybe keep them on bezel only? The baddest thing to do would be a 24hrs dial only, but as a beater? Dont think so. Any ideas?

mg

[mastergod]

I must admit, I love your first Space-Dweller II dial, it is soooo uncluttered, it's awesome, my only reservation, as before, was that for the sake of functionality, I feel it most beneficial to have all the 24 hours somehow marked on the dial, that way, when the lights go out, and it's time to start crawling through the ventilation shafts, at least the watch will still be totally readable

Okay TeeJay how about this logic:

IF the 24 hrs function on ExplorerII/Space-DwellerII is merely used to distinguish day from night, not display a second time-zone - - then it would not be necessary to split the dial into 24 separate markers (thus cluttering the dial). Indeed, day/night only is split into two groups; Day and Night. According to this logic, it would be sufficient to leave the 24-hrs hand without any indexes to point to: If its pointing to the right (01-12) it would be a.m. on earth (sic), if its pointing to the right (13-24) its p.m.

In other words, the dial simply has to have some kind of am/pm-distinguishing feature which separates the right part of the dial from the left. If the 12 hour hand points to "2" and the 24 hour hand points to the left, its "14".

Here are all the sketches for comparison. Numbers 1 and 2 are based on the 1655 dial but without 24hrs markers that use the lume triangle at 12 and 6 to separate dial into two halves (am right, pm left). 1 has explorer triangle, 2 has smaller sub triangle. Number 3 is Datejust style, number 4 is the same, only with 24hrs markers among secs. Number 5 and 6 are even more self-explanatory! Nitty-gritty details to be sorted later. Any one of these good enough?

mg

[TeeJay]

I'll warn you in advance, this is a long one

...But still no idea how to include 24hrs indexes without cluttering the dial. Maybe keep them on bezel only? The baddest thing to do would be a 24hrs dial only, but as a beater? Dont think so. Any ideas?

mg

I'd say you've got it with Number 4

Okay TeeJay how about this logic:

IF the 24 hrs function on ExplorerII/Space-DwellerII is merely used to distinguish day from night, not display a second time-zone - - then it would not be necessary to split the dial into 24 separate markers (thus cluttering the dial). Indeed, day/night only is split into two groups; Day and Night. According to this logic, it would be sufficient to leave the 24-hrs hand without any indexes to point to: If its pointing to the right (01-12) it would be a.m. on earth (sic), if its pointing to the right (13-24) its p.m.

In other words, the dial simply has to have some kind of am/pm-distinguishing feature which separates the right part of the dial from the left. If the 12 hour hand points to "2" and the 24 hour hand points to the left, its "14".

I quite agree, the 24 hour function is not displaying a second timezone, but, I think that as the watch will have the 24 hour bezel (making precise 24 hour time possible) then there might as well be a way of precisely telling the time in that 24 hour format on the dial. Or, to put it another way, consider some of the Panerai GMT watches... They have the GMT hand, but do not have 24 hour marks on either the dial or the bezel. The hand provides AM/PM distinction with its sweep, but, given the lack of a 'timing scale' the hand is not really useable for telling the precise 24 hour time, which I feel is not making the most of the available function. It would be like taking dial #3 (actually one of my favorites ) putting it over a 1655 movement, but then putting it in an original Explorer case. It would look good but would have the same issue as the above-mentioned PAM GMTs: Not entirely readable as a 24 hour format. Now, to be honest, while the person living/working in space might not necessarily need that 24 hour readability and format, and dial #3 in an Explorer or Milgauss case would probably look really slick, as you are using the 1655 case which does have the 24 hour markings and an AM/PM sweep hand, I feel it would only be logical to maximize the utilization of those resources

Here are all the sketches for comparison. Numbers 1 and 2 are based on the 1655 dial but without 24hrs markers that use the lume triangle at 12 and 6 to separate dial into two halves (am right, pm left). 1 has explorer triangle, 2 has smaller sub triangle. Number 3 is Datejust style, number 4 is the same, only with 24hrs markers among secs. Number 5 and 6 are even more self-explanatory! Nitty-gritty details to be sorted later. Any one of these good enough?

mg

#s 5 and 6, I really like the layouts, but as before, I think more suited to a 'low impact' watch like the DateJust. I do really like the simplicity of them though #3, likewise, I feel is nice, but more along the lines of the original Explorer. I think it would make an excellent beater, easily readable, but as above, wouldn't make full advantage of the 24 capacity of the movement or case.

I'd be interested to see how the triangles and 'long seconds' from #1 would look on #4... I think that the triangles in those positions makes a nice 'separation' of the day/night halves of the dial, as each marks 'twelve o clock'. I really like how #4 has the additional 24 hour marks, as I feel that is an essential for this watch, and, it does so in a way which is much less cluttered than the 1655. As the 'even' hour markers on #4 are quite thin, I think that having the 'long seconds' might not clutter the dial too much. My experience with the 79190 dial is that while the 'long seconds' can make the dial seem smaller (but not cluttered) with less open black area they do make it very easy to read the exact time, as the minute hand 'touches' over each, so even at a glance, one can see precisely where the hands are pointing, compared to say a 16610 dial with the shorter second marks which the minute hand does not reach...

I just had another thought, looking at my 1655... How ebout re-enameling the lines which represent the 'odd hours' on the bezel? All the lines between 18 and 6 in deep blue, and all the lines between 6 and 18 in deep red, as a little homage to the Pepsi GMT... I think doing the numbers themselves might be a bit much, but just the lines, I think might make a nice touch

[Dudemeister]

Here are a few random thoughts:

1. Since the watch will be used in space, readability is paramount, and so is visibility. What ever layout you decide on, must be clear, easy to take in at a glance, and bright. With that in mind, the more indeces you have the more thought and time it requires for the brain to absorb, so I would say simple is better.

2. For visibility, I would choose tritium instead of traditional lume as it does not require charging. Remember you might not have enough light to charge the watch. You could also opt for the entire dial to be coated with luminous material, and the markers, indeces and everything else would be black.

3. Why are seconds so important? I would think that, unless I'm timing something (like my oxygen supply, or time remaining on the ships self destruct), hours are the most important thing. If you need to time something you should consider a chronograph, Daytona maybe?

4. Of all the dial designs, I think #4 is the closest, but with ta twist. You need a "0" or "12" reference, but instead of the large triangle, lume the Rolex coronet instead. Let it serve as the "0" index.

[Guest VINTAGE1680]

after completed this project you should sell it to Rolex S.A. and make lots of money

[mastergod]

Here are a few random thoughts:

1. Since the watch will be used in space, readability is paramount, and so is visibility. What ever layout you decide on, must be clear, easy to take in at a glance, and bright. With that in mind, the more indeces you have the more thought and time it requires for the brain to absorb, so I would say simple is better.

2. For visibility, I would choose tritium instead of traditional lume as it does not require charging. Remember you might not have enough light to charge the watch. You could also opt for the entire dial to be coated with luminous material, and the markers, indeces and everything else would be black.

3. Why are seconds so important? I would think that, unless I'm timing something (like my oxygen supply, or time remaining on the ships self destruct), hours are the most important thing. If you need to time something you should consider a chronograph, Daytona maybe?

4. Of all the dial designs, I think #4 is the closest, but with ta twist. You need a "0" or "12" reference, but instead of the large triangle, lume the Rolex coronet instead. Let it serve as the "0" index.

Thanks for chiming dude,

Interesting thoughts again. Seconds are not really that important, but the secs hand is the only one that moves visibly. To me, that makes it come to life and become friendly or something.

Agree on the crown lume idea dude, will explore that! (vintage) Tritium it is (however this will be a superluminova mix with some orange)

thanks for your kind help

mg

[TeeJay]

Here are a few random thoughts:

1. Since the watch will be used in space, readability is paramount, and so is visibility. What ever layout you decide on, must be clear, easy to take in at a glance, and bright. With that in mind, the more indeces you have the more thought and time it requires for the brain to absorb, so I would say simple is better.

Absolutely. Here's my above observation about the 79190 dial and it's 'long second' markers

"My experience with the 79190 dial is that while the 'long seconds' can make the dial seem smaller (but not cluttered) with less open black area they do make it very easy to read the exact time, as the minute hand 'touches' over each, so even at a glance, one can see precisely where the hands are pointing"

2. For visibility, I would choose tritium instead of traditional lume as it does not require charging. Remember you might not have enough light to charge the watch. You could also opt for the entire dial to be coated with luminous material, and the markers, indeces and everything else would be black.

Again, absolutely spot on with the need for the lume to be self-powering, and the idea of the entire dial being luminous, I think could work very well

3. Why are seconds so important?

Seconds would be absolutely essential for any number of tasks, from timing, to navigation. My mention of 'long seconds' is not so much that they can be used for timing seconds, but that they allow minutes to be read much more accurately and easily, than the 'short seconds' of any other Rolex dial

If you need to time something you should consider a chronograph, Daytona maybe?

I must admit, I think that a chronograph would be more useful overall than an AM/PM indicator

4. Of all the dial designs, I think #4 is the closest, but with ta twist. You need a "0" or "12" reference, but instead of the large triangle, lume the Rolex coronet instead. Let it serve as the "0" index.

I like the sound of that as a plan, after all, the center tine of the coronet is always at the 'o' point of the dial

[mastergod]

Hi guys, here's another tweak,

only halves this time. Hopefully you´ll be able to imagine the design on a full dial.

The left one: Long "regular hours" indexes and cubic dots for irregular hours, long seconds.

The right one: Normal "regular hours" indexes and a series of cubic dots that are both regular and irregular hours, normal seconds.

Any of these worth pursuing? IMO its starting to get cluttered

Thanks

mg

[TeeJay]

Hi guys, here's another tweak,

only halves this time. Hopefully you

[mastergod]

I love both, but would vote for option one, as it has the long seconds Function over aeathetics

Thanks, gimme a holler if you change your mind or come up with something better!!!

ah, nipping out for some right now as a matter of fact. Back later

mg

[southcoast68]

I just had another thought, looking at my 1655... How ebout re-enameling the lines which represent the 'odd hours' on the bezel? All the lines between 18 and 6 in deep blue, and all the lines between 6 and 18 in deep red, as a little homage to the Pepsi GMT... I think doing the numbers themselves might be a bit much, but just the lines, I think might make a nice touch

I was thinking along these same lines myself, but TeeJay beat me to it

after completed this project you should sell it to Rolex S.A. and make lots of money

We are probably putting more thought into this than what Rolex would at this point

Now some thoughts of my own;

1. I like the long second hand, really unconventional, and that's what is good about it. The only addition I can think of would be a small arrow head at the tip. I can see the importance of having a second hand so it confirms that the watch is actually running at a clance (something that watches with subsidiary seconds do not do well with at times).

2. I agree that dial #4 is the best of the lot, still simple to read, but offers more information at a glance. It would be important to have the second hand reach out to the seconds track, the minute hand to reach out to the minute markers, the hour hand would be tricky to accurately display the hours since it is much shorter. Speaking of hands, IMO, the use of hands similar to Omega Planet Ocean hands would work real good since they offer a distinct arrow pointing to a marker. A set of those hands in white with lume in the center ala 1655 would be my idea.

3. As far as indicating the am/pm, this will probably require using a movement other than what we find in a Rolex, or Rolex rep, but some watches have a "day-night" indicator on the dial, see picture below;

This may require actually taking the movement from the Vostok to use in this project watch. Another idea would be to use orange lume on the am side of the dial, and bluish lume on the pm side of the dial. That idea may be too much for you, just thinking outside of the box

Cheers

[mastergod]

Interesting stuff southcoast - thanks.

You know, the coloured-letter-bezel... I don't really know. Didn´t like the US Marines model bezel, and have seen some Pam Daylight and Daytona mods that don't really strike me as being toolstyle enough somehow, although I know this is a contradiction: Most "gear" is designed to cater for fast thinking. Maybe its because of the combo w/ respectively shiny steel or shiny PVD. Hey, I´ll probably do it when I've had the watch for some time and want to mod it some more. Thought about luming the bezel, what do you think?

Will look into the arrow tip issue! That being said, hopefully the entire secs hand will be an arrow in itself (my sketch isn't pointed enough).

BTW, found these old Rolex model names on the web;

Air Lion, Air Tiger, Airgiant, SkyRocket, Falcon, Orchid, Observatory, Tridor, Athlete , Commando, Turtle Timer, Canadian, Empire, Oyster Lipton, Rolex Scientific, Rolex Everest, Tudor Advisor, Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Raleigh, Oyster Commander, Oyster Recorda, Oyster Edison, Oyster Grenfell, Oyster Shipmate, Oyster Standard....

...many fashionably oldskool names there, most of them rich in Rolex´generously self-proclaiming alpha-male spirit (apart from the Turtle Timer and Oyster Lipton perhaps, and the ever-gay notion of the shipmate. To be honest, I was going for a Commando II on this one, but then there came an idea of adverts and retrofitted product placement in an epic movie from 1977 - stay tuned. Anyway, the listed Rolex models may inspire fellow "what if" geeks

mg