mad_man_may Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Unreg - thanks. I am trying to drop by the AD tomorrow to check out the gen Santos XL they have on display. Will report back on what I see on the gen dial vs this one. So what did you find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unregistered Posted July 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I checked and the gen has glossy numbers and mildly raised similar to the rep. That said it was on a TT Santos100XL so there MAY be differences Just a disclosure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_man_may Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I checked and the gen has glossy numbers and mildly raised similar to the rep. That said it was on a TT Santos100XL so there MAY be differences Just a disclosure. Thanks That's the rep model I want - Two Tone. As soon as it's available I'll place my order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) I checked and the gen has glossy numbers and mildly raised similar to the rep. That said it was on a TT Santos100XL so there MAY be differences Just a disclosure. Sorry for the late reply. Just had a chance to drop by the AD yesterday to check out the exact gen Santos XL in SS mode. The numerals on the dial are definitely slightly raised and glossy black like in the rep and no lume other than on the hands. But the dial color on the rep is definitely off. The rep dial has a creamy light peachy grainy color and the gen dial is bright silver with a satin finished consistent with the gen description of a silver opaline dial. So those that said it was white or off-white or white with pearlescent color were wrong! In certain lighting will look like its white but its not. Edited July 28, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unregistered Posted July 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) But the dial color on the rep is definitely off. The rep dial has a creamy light peachy grainy color and the gen dial is bright silver with a satin finished consistent with the gen description of a silver opaline dial. So those that said it was white or off-white or white with pearlescent color were wrong! In certain lighting will look like its white but its not. agree that under AD lighting, the dial looks off. Go to a 2nd hand shop and see if you can find one, the color is significantly closer, or bring the watch to somewhere a little darker with normal lighting in the AD. I found that the gen dial is far from bright silver. To me though, the bigger tell is the beveled sapphire Edited July 28, 2010 by unregistered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) agree that under AD lighting, the dial looks off. Go to a 2nd hand shop and see if you can find one, the color is significantly closer, or bring the watch to somewhere a little darker with normal lighting in the AD. I found that the gen dial is far from bright silver. To me though, the bigger tell is the beveled sapphire Unreg - I did look at the gen santos 100 xl dial under different lighting conditions - right under the intense lighting its silverish in color, away from the intense light it is whitish in color, right outside under normal sunshine its whitish color, etc ... so either way it is whitish or silver not the creamy peachy textured color on the rep dial. Gen santos 100 xl dial is also very smooth and has a satin sheen to it. I inspected the watch for an hour (the AD is a buddy of mine) walking up/down/outside of the AD, just so I am sure of the dial color. A couple of members over at RG also said the same thing about the dial in that it is off. So there is definitely no doubt it is off in my mind ... Here is a good link to some detailed photos of the same watch I saw at my AD: http://www.keepthetime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=192 This is what the dial looks like outside of the AD ... whitish. Key is the almost matching white color of the hands to the dial. But under intense lighting in the AD, the white lume on the hands would not be able to match completely the bright silver color of the dial. Agree on the crystal bevel as being another tell. The other tell is more around the quality of the gen finish vs the rep finish on the casing and crown. The gen case is really well machined and has a nice brushed finish to it. The crown construction is also immaculately engineered, which if compared to a rep with some QC issues on the crown will be another tell. I was really hoping the gen dial looks somewhat like the rep dial but it didn't. Too bad though as I would looove to buy this rep if only they get the darn dial color right. I can deal with refinishing the case and crown but the rep's incorrect dial color bugs the heck out of me though as I REALLY don't want to spend thousands buying the gen with a fairly generic mvt ... Maybe I should just get the used gen as these usually go for about $3-3.5K here ... Edited July 29, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unregistered Posted July 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 hmmm...I am kinda of two minds about this. On one hand we've got one of the best damn OTB reps available, especially comparing what was available in the past, and yet so many people are niggling about things that just cannot be picked up unless you are pouring over the watch pretty up close, i.e. 2ft away sorta close. Yet I do understand why we also want things to be near accurate. Just get the general feel from many on this thread would really be better off playing with gens, which most of you already do. I personally think for $300+, this piece is ridiculously close and cheap to a gen which is overpriced, in my book it is 95% close, much better than the majority of the reps out there, light years ahead of Panerai reps etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) hmmm...I am kinda of two minds about this. On one hand we've got one of the best damn OTB reps available, especially comparing what was available in the past, and yet so many people are niggling about things that just cannot be picked up unless you are pouring over the watch pretty up close, i.e. 2ft away sorta close. Yet I do understand why we also want things to be near accurate. Just get the general feel from many on this thread would really be better off playing with gens, which most of you already do. I personally think for $300+, this piece is ridiculously close and cheap to a gen which is overpriced, in my book it is 95% close, much better than the majority of the reps out there, light years ahead of Panerai reps etc. This is a hard one for me as well. As picky as I am when it comes to reps, I can also live with certain flaws as long as they are imperceptible to me. To me the incorrect dial color on the rep is a BIG tell. If the rep maker has resorted to white color, I would have accepted it as I can apply a satin varnish over the dial to simulate the satin sheen on the gen dial. So I don't think my complains were too critical. But to each their own. If you can live with the dial flaw, then go ahead and buy it. I for one is disappointed in the rep, they came so close to everything else, yet they could f'd up something as critical AND simple as the dial color. Unbelievable (comment directed at the rep maker) ... Edited July 29, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unregistered Posted July 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 As you said, to each his own. As my own pictures show, the dial changes shade quite differently, very much like the gen dial. I do feel you are blowing it up a little about the dial color, but thats cause I actually have the rep watch in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 As my own pictures show, the dial changes shade quite differently, very much like the gen dial. I do feel you are blowing it up a little about the dial color, but thats cause I actually have the rep watch in hand. I'm with unreg on this as I'm confused about r_squared conclusions. I've examined the gen many times and I agree in most lighting conditions the dial looks white. However unless you have seen the rep in the flesh how can you tell the rep dial "has a creamy light peachy grainy color"? Mine should be arriving next week and I'll try to do an analysis on the dial color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) I'm with unreg on this as I'm confused about r_squared conclusions. I've examined the gen many times and I agree in most lighting conditions the dial looks white. However unless you have seen the rep in the flesh how can you tell the rep dial "has a creamy light peachy grainy color"? Mine should be arriving next week and I'll try to do an analysis on the dial color. I don't think there is anything confusing about my comments. I have seen pics of the rep in many lighting conditions owned by people who actually have the same rep that unreg has. Just wait till you see the actual rep itself. The dial color is off on the rep unless you got a one-off white dialed version which can happen sometimes in the rep world. Also, take a closer look at unreg's pics in the first post. He blew up the pic of the dial really well. It will show the color and texture that I am talking about. That's how I would describe the color as its not white or silver or off-white. Its something else altogether ... The way I am going to tell if you are wearing a rep Santos is look at the color of the inactive lume on the hands versus the dial color. The gen will match most of the time but the rep would not. I will look forward to seeing your detailed dial review. Not sure if it will achieve anything new for me, but I would welcome another fresh perspective knowing how anal you are. Edited July 29, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) As you said, to each his own. As my own pictures show, the dial changes shade quite differently, very much like the gen dial. I do feel you are blowing it up a little about the dial color, but thats cause I actually have the rep watch in hand. I think we will have to just agree to disagree here. I have been looking at pics of the gens and reps for weeks, not just from various dealers website but also from pics from actual owners of this rep. I almost bought one earlier in the week until I saw his dial pics which prompted me to go check out the gen dial color in person b/c no one could describe the color consistently and whether there is a difference or not. I am also not the only one that mentioned the dial color on the gen dial did not match the rep. So my comment seems consistent with theirs. Also, know that I am not trying to diss your watch but flaws are flaws, and we just have to accept that its there, so we can continue to improve the rep over time. Edited July 29, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Unreg/Txcollector - Maybe if we could have the hands relumed to be the same color as the dial (when inactive). This should then "hide" the dial flaws by blending it in with the relumed hand color. The dial flaws would then be less obvious to the eye. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDorian Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I think the dial color thing is way overblown. First, white balance of photos even slightly off will show different shading. Second, unless you work at a Jeweler or you're a dentist who sells jewelry on the side, nobody is going to be that under that intense of a light with a gen dial next to it at all times. As in, it'll be almost impossible to tell the difference. Third, depending on the level of charge on the lume on the hands, the color will be different at all times... It honestly sounds more like you're trying to talk yourself out of purchasing this watch which I can understand... too many watches! MORE IMPORTANTLY. Anyone notice there's no rubber gasket for the caseback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDorian Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Is anyone else's back not totally flush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) I think the dial color thing is way overblown. First, white balance of photos even slightly off will show different shading. Second, unless you work at a Jeweler or you're a dentist who sells jewelry on the side, nobody is going to be that under that intense of a light with a gen dial next to it at all times. As in, it'll be almost impossible to tell the difference. Third, depending on the level of charge on the lume on the hands, the color will be different at all times... It honestly sounds more like you're trying to talk yourself out of purchasing this watch which I can understand... too many watches! First, if you read my postings above carefully, I already caveated that. Have seen so many different pics of the same watch under different lightings by actual members who had the same rep. So will have a good idea of what it looks like in person under different lighting conditions - it ain't rocket science. Secondly, if you read my postings as well as that from unreg/txcollector, they both seem to acknowledged the gen dial is whitish in color in most conditions. No need for intense lighting to expose the rep dial!! Its pretty easy to spot the rep dial with the current flaws as it is. Thirdly, the hands doesn't charge up easily like the superlume on reps & some gens. Go check out the gen yourself. Unless you go into a dark area, you won't ever see it light up - that's how a good gen lume would operate. Most of the time the inactive lume color on the hands & dial looked the same on the gen dial as if there is NO mismatch. On your last comment above, I am really trying to justify buying this watch but I am not interested in buying another rep to have it sitting on my bench waiting to be modded. From now on, I just want to buy a decent OTB rep that does not involve lots of modding otherwise I just go gen and be done with. Also, I don't like buying reps that has visible flaws that I cannot fix. And yes, I have wayyy too many watches but that is not the reason for my comments above. More just my observations of the rep as it is. Edited July 29, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDorian Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 You are already saying "ish" you can't make any conclusions from what is -ish in color. Only way to know real color difference is to have rep in hand and gen in hand and compare side by side in identical lighting. Nobody has done that yet. Second, the lume on the rep is amazing for a rep. I can't believe how good it is so again, you need to compare directly and the slight difference in hand color isn't going to make a difference at all as far as a "tell". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Unreg/Txcollector - Maybe if we could have the hands relumed to be the same color as the dial (when inactive). This should then "hide" the dial flaws by blending it in with the relumed hand color. The dial flaws would then be less obvious to the eye. What do you guys think? R2, you know me, my OCD is as prevalent as many other crazy folks here. I won't be happy if the dial color is really noticeable. The watch should arrive this weekend. I have seen the gen at least 20 times at different ADs with different lighting conditions. I'll post several pics with different color and lighting references. After that I will decide if there are any mods needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unregistered Posted July 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) R2, just gotta agree to disagree. You are getting quite defensive in trying to bring this piece down and about the dial color, which is your opinion and your right, you and I both know how opinionated we can get (still reckon the MM20 is a closer homage to the 6152 ) Putting things in perspective, this Santos100XL is the best replica out there right now for this particular model. Compared to the previous replicas of this model, it is light years ahead in terms of accuracy, corrected flaws, general overall feel and the one thing you can't generally quantify, is the feeling of quality. That even you have to admit, or if not, at least acknowledge that the previous versions suffered from significantly more obvious flaws like completely wrong dials, incorrectly sized hands, incorrectly colored cabochons, wrongly sized cabochons, wrongly sized crowns, wrongly sized crown guards, wrong model casebacks, bubbled bezel screws and the whole slew of things. Further to that, stepping further out and just comparing this to say the beloved PAM111H that majority of people still buy, this model can in comparison be said to be a gen when comparing flaws. Are there flaws? Yes I will agree. Is the dial off, very slightly so. Is it a huge flaw, IMHO, no. To some it may be, obviously to you it is. To get so worked up and attempt to put down the watch in such a manner considering what we have available now, well, you have every right, I don't have stock in any rep manufacturers (well maybe I do indirectly via my portfolio but still), I just think its getting a little much, you've got at least 5 posts now defending your position very passionately. Basically mate, relax. There are many other watches for you to move on to. Get a cigar, down some whiskey, and start searching for the next one. Everyone else, if you've been wanting a good Santos100XL rep, this is it, at least all you can get, along with the DLC/Ti version that just came out. The only way to improve it, would be to get a gen dial or Rocket dial and transplant it in if you feel the dial color is too much of an issue for you. Edited July 29, 2010 by unregistered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 You are already saying "ish" you can't make any conclusions from what is -ish in color. Only way to know real color difference is to have rep in hand and gen in hand and compare side by side in identical lighting. Nobody has done that yet. Second, the lume on the rep is amazing for a rep. I can't believe how good it is so again, you need to compare directly and the slight difference in hand color isn't going to make a difference at all as far as a "tell". John - I am saying "whit-ish" because it AINT WHITE but looks something similar to white in normal lighting conditions for goodness sake!! Read my post again, as I have said "BRIGHT SILVER WITH SATIN FINISH" many times as THAT IS THE COLOR OF THE GEN DIAL ... LOL In normal lighting situations, it would look whitish. That is what I mean by whit-ish! It definitely ain't the color on your rep dial!! The mismatch of the color on the INACTIVE lume on the hands and dial color is a tell b/c its supposed to look really close unless the lume lights up or when the dial surface is under intense lighting conditions!! How many times do I have to repeat this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 R2, you know me, my OCD is as prevalent as many other crazy folks here. I won't be happy if the dial color is really noticeable. The watch should arrive this weekend. I have seen the gen at least 20 times at different ADs with different lighting conditions. I'll post several pics with different color and lighting references. After that I will decide if there are any mods needed. No worries Tx. I trust your judgement and am looking forward to your dial review. Hopefully you can get the same exact gen santos and compare to your rep santos for the dial comparo. You'll see what I mean when you get it ... the rep dial color is really hard to define but it is definitely NOT WHITE or BRIGHT SILVER. It did bug me when I saw pics of the real watch from actual members who had them. I see this particular gen santos everyday on my way to work as it is usually displayed in the AD's window or I would see work colleagues wearing them once in a while. The gen santos dial has a very interesting silver finish to it. If the dial color was off, it would be difficult to fix it. The only way to fix IMO is to put in a gen dial. I think that is all it needs to take it to the top. It should be an easy fix for the rep maker - use flat white as the base coating and then apply a satin varnish to emulate the gen finish. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) R2, just gotta agree to disagree. You are getting quite defensive in trying to bring this piece down and about the dial color, which is your opinion and your right, you and I both know how opinionated we can get (still reckon the MM20 is a closer homage to the 6152 ) Putting things in perspective, this Santos100XL is the best replica out there right now for this particular model. Compared to the previous replicas of this model, it is light years ahead in terms of accuracy, corrected flaws, general overall feel and the one thing you can't generally quantify, is the feeling of quality. That even you have to admit, or if not, at least acknowledge that the previous versions suffered from significantly more obvious flaws like completely wrong dials, incorrectly sized hands, incorrectly colored cabochons, wrongly sized cabochons, wrongly sized crowns, wrongly sized crown guards, wrong model casebacks, bubbled bezel screws and the whole slew of things. Further to that, stepping further out and just comparing this to say the beloved PAM111H that majority of people still buy, this model can in comparison be said to be a gen when comparing flaws. Are there flaws? Yes I will agree. Is the dial off, very slightly so. Is it a huge flaw, IMHO, no. To some it may be, obviously to you it is. To get so worked up and attempt to put down the watch in such a manner considering what we have available now, well, you have every right, I don't have stock in any rep manufacturers (well maybe I do indirectly via my portfolio but still), I just think its getting a little much, you've got at least 5 posts now defending your position very passionately. Basically mate, relax. There are many other watches for you to move on to. Get a cigar, down some whiskey, and start searching for the next one. Everyone else, if you've been wanting a good Santos100XL rep, this is it, at least all you can get, along with the DLC/Ti version that just came out. The only way to improve it, would be to get a gen dial or Rocket dial and transplant it in if you feel the dial color is too much of an issue for you. Well, there is a reason why I am getting defensive as the naysayers who have the rep (but not the gen) do not want to acknowledge the dial is off on the rep. Yet the dial flaw is there on the rep. From your response above, you are already starting to acknowlegde that too but after some postings. To you, the dial flaw is not much of an issue b/c your tolerance level is higher than mine. As I have said above, I am not here to "diss" yours or anyone's rep santos, but merely to highlight an issue with the dial that no one seems to want to discuss (tells me you guys are in denial), which I was hoping could be resolved through collective thinking (sounds like no one is interested in that either other than "nice watch" comments). I don't see that as an attack or bringing anyone's piece down. If that's what you're happy with, then so be it. I have nothing more to add. But I hear you on calming down as I don't want to waste anymore time talking about this frigging rep. I can always buy the gen ... no big deal for me. As I have said above, I really don't want another friggin rep sitting on my bench waiting to be modded and collecting dust. I had high hopes for this one and it turns out to be another disappointment (such is the nature of rep collecting). For everyone else, as unreg said, if you can live with the dial flaw, go and buy it - it is pretty good overall except for the frigging dial color. If the rep dial bugs you as much as it did to me, swap in a gen dial and you'll have the best low budget franken you'll ever get. Well I ain't going there with this rep as the gen is relatively cheap in the used or grey market and I have too many franken projects to do, so no thanks on this route for me. PS: Unreg - happy to continue our previous debate on the RXW MM20 vs 127 vs 6152's ... I have since acquired a gen RXW MM20 like you did since it was dirt cheap (for me anyway) compared to a gen 127 or 6152. Might still get the gen 217 later but not this year as I have bought too many high priced gens this year, a new home and loads of expensive furniture, so goto slow down a bit for the rest of the year. Edited July 30, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDorian Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Just buy a gen, you are insane for what is a $400 watch, it's not worth the energy you're putting behind this, jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Squared Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Just buy a gen, you are insane for what is a $400 watch, it's not worth the energy you're putting behind this, jeez. I think I already said I am going to get the gen ... stop repeating what I already said I was going to do. Sheeeesh. Edited July 30, 2010 by R_Squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDorian Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Too lazy to read your multiple walls of text with little actual factual information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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