hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Watch sales are becoming more of a hassle and i'm about ready to ONLY deal with members i know...as many of you know, i've been an active member here for quite some time...and have bought/sold/traded MANY watches...all in all, i work with everyone to ensure a good transaction...i disclose any issues and/or imperfections to the best i know...and if something isn't as it should be, i address it...on occasion, i have received watches back that members have claimed do not work, have issues, etc -- yet, in reality either didn't have any issues or were inflicted by the receiving member... with a recent sale, i decided to take a stand... The long and short of the story is this... 1. i posted a watch for sale... 2. a member wanted... 3. i sent him paypal info... 4. he inquired after i sent him my paypal info on whether i had extra links - he stated he had a large wrist... 5. i told him the watch was setup loosely for my 7.5 wrist - likely 7.65"...i said i didn't know if i had extra links or not, but would look and get back to him... 6. he then completed the paypal transaction without waiting on my reply...(not sure why)... 7. he then replied that he paypal'd me and hoped i had the link(s)... 8. i told him that i would check and if not, i would refund him... 9. the next morning i pm'd him that i had no more links and asked him what he wanted to do... 10. he said "send it"... 11. i did... 12. he received it fine but commented he needed extra links and just posted a thread looking for them... 13. after a day, he pm's me back that he can't find any links and that he planned to send the watch back for a refund... 14. without waiting on a reply from me, i receive another pm that he already sent it back and requested a refund... 15. i find this unacceptable and told him so...afterall, he told me to send it without any extra links... 16. he knew exactly what he was getting and it was his choice to receive it... 17. sure i could refund his money - but seriously, this is crap...and i'm tired of the games being played on watch sales... 18. i stood my ground and said it was now his issue and not mine... 19. he then threatens me with filing a paypal dispute... 20. he has since added that he measured his wrist and it's 7"...not the larger than 7.65" he previously stated... 21. he then had the nerve to tell me that the current watch bracelet length is not 7.65"...huh?!...many of you know my wrist is clearly 7.5" and that I wear my watches loosely... 22. he also then brings up some additional crap that the crown does screw on right?!... 23. he gives me til 10pm EST to make this right or he's filing a dispute... 24. i told him fine - go ahead and file... i'm not going to take this crap...and trust me, this isn't an expensive piece...i'm holding my ground because simply "enough is enough"... I have the entire pm dialog in pdf format ready for the dispute process...and ready for "other uses"... I won't be "outing" the member - as quite honestly, this is about taking a stand...i clearly feel this isn't a good way to conduct business...so rather than roll over, i've decided to stand my ground... I seriously don't feel I'm wrong on this...but where does this end?!... Here's a copy of the pms back/forth on the sale...i removed name references for those interested in reading further... Sorry for venting this, but seriously - i think this member is not being "forthright", so i took a stand... I don't plan to "out" the member - but i'm not going to be threatened... R- ********************************* Sent 26 July 2010 - 03:26 PM I take the zzz-watch if still available. Thanks, xxx Sent 26 July 2010 - 04:44 PM hey xxx... yes, it's available...it's a nice piece... paypal is zzzzzzzzzzzz... pls confirm and send me your contact/shipping info, too... Sent 26 July 2010 - 05:12 PM OK I'll PP you. Does it have all the links? My wrist is big. Thanks Sent 26 July 2010 - 05:21 PM hey xxx...i'll have to look around tonight...it's sized for a 7.65" wrist and i'm quite honestly not sure if that's all i received at the time... Sent 26 July 2010 - 05:36 PM I sent PP. Please look to see if you have all the links. Thanks, xxx Sent 26 July 2010 - 05:39 PM will do...just can't recall...got this in a quick deal...will let you know... and no worries, if it won't fit b/c i can't find links, i'll gladly refund your money...i hope i find them for you, xxx... Sent 26 July 2010 - 10:03 PM hey xxx... i believe i have one single extra link...i need to double-check it 2mrw when i get into the office...the watch is there...would add 1/2" to get the total length close to 8"...i'm pretty sure the length is loose now - how i always wear my pieces - so its probably 7.65"...plus the extra link...will this work for you, assuming it's the right link; which i'm pretty sure it is...let me know and i'll get back to you tomorrow... Sent 26 July 2010 - 10:19 PM I think that will be fine. Send it out tomorrow if you can. Thanks, xxx Sent 26 July 2010 - 10:25 PM will do... i'll check in with you tomorrow... Sent 27 July 2010 - 07:48 AM morning...i checked the link with the watch and it looks similar, but isn't...oh well...i checked the pm from the yyy-origowner - who i bought it from - and it is what it is...the watch bracelet came as is with all the links he had...it fits my 7.5" wrist slightly loosely...doesn't flop, but there's a little room so its definitely not tight... will this work for you?... Sent 27 July 2010 - 08:06 AM Sounds good. Send it.. Thanks Sent 29 July 2010 - 02:57 PM Received the watch. Thanks. I do need another link. I put an alert out on RG and RWG. Sent 30 July 2010 - 10:09 PM It doesn't seem like I can get a link or two. I might have to send it back to you. It really is too tight, I could use 2 links. I put WTB's on RG and RWG. Thanks, xxx Sent Today, 09:49 AM I had to send the watch back to you for refund. Sorry. I don't like to do it but it's too tight. Please refund me when you receive it, probably Tue/ Wed. Thanks, xxx Sent Today, 01:28 PM xxx...this is not acceptable to me...I disclosed the size after looking for extra links...you said send it...after only 1 day of a search for links - you expect me to take it back?!...and then you unilaterally decide to send it back impatiently...I was on a mini-vacation the past 3 days... Sorry...this is not how it works...you can either look for the links thru members or dealers or sell it again...if you did send it back, I will be resend it back to you... As my pms with you will attest, I work with all...this is now your issue, not mine...I'm sure that leadership of RWG and our membership will agree... I will let you know when it arrives and its mailed back to you.. Sent Today, 03:25 PM I really don't want the watch back. Please refund me. Thanks, xxx You wrote this "will do...just can't recall...got this in a quick deal...will let you know... and no worries, if it won't fit b/c i can't find links, i'll gladly refund your money...i hope i find them for you, xxx..." Sent Today, 03:49 PM I'm not going to fight with you...I said what you quoted before I looked for the link...telling you I had not, I asked what you wanted to do...you said "send it" knowing it was sized for 7.65"... Sent Today, 03:57 PM I have bought and sold alot of reps on RWG. No one likes to give refunds, I don't either. I try to be a nice guy about it. Please refund me when you receive the watch. Thanks Sent Today, 04:17 PM I will not...I was working with you and you asked for it to be sent with the links I had on it...a one day links search, followed by you sending it back before we discussed it...sorry...you requested it sent and it was...you can't unilaterally make the rules...end of this conversation...sorry...but this us not my doing...its yours...accept you responsibility... I will not continue to deal with this...I am right in my stance... Sent Today, 05:28 PM I just measured my wrist and it's 7 inches, which means the watch should fit with room to spare. It doesn't. I don't know how you measure that watch but it doesn't fit. I didn't want to bring this up but there is an issue with the crown that you did not disclose. It's a little hard to screw down. I could live with it if the watch fit my wrist. I will give you one more chance to receive the watch and refund me. If I don't hear from you tonight, I will refund through PP. I don't want to but I will. Thanks, xxx Sent Today, 08:27 PM Last chance. I will be contacting PP to start /disput/refund procedure at 10:00pm EST. Thanks, xxx Sent Today, 08:39 PM xxx... File a claim through paypal if you wish... The watch was clearly sized for a 7.5" wrist - loosely...i have pix of it on my wrist...i can find about a dozen or so members that will tell you my wrist size is what it is...you are clearly not telling the truth...as for the crown, it works(ed) fine...i will not put up with this lark any further... I have a documented conversation with you via pm that i will send to paypal...additionally, if pushed any further by you, i will cut/paste the entire saga into a post here on RWG...so don't threaten my again - or imply that i have done anything wrong or that the watch was not advertised as it is...i have documented proof on all accounts... quite honestly, this "craziness" with sales lately has many of us your plain tired and worn...i worked with you...you told me to "send it" after i told you it was sized at 7.65"...you ALSO mentioned in your post, that your wrist is large (larger than 7.65") - which is why you needed the links...and now you tell me that you measured your wrist at 7" and it doesn't fit...sorry....not going to deal with this any further... And please don't threaten me with paypal dispute...i have a stellar paypal account and have personally fought sales that have gone astray...and with documentation, it makes it easier...think twice before you risk your own paypal reputation... it's coming back to you and i'm done with this...don't make this any worse...and i'm completely [censored] that you are NOW implying the watch isn't sized for my wrist and the crown isn't right... i'm done with this... Sent Today, 08:59 PM I have bought and sold many watches over the years. I have received many that were not exactly right for me and sold them off to others. I had to give a refund once and got a refund once. No big deal. Life goes on. You are being entirely out of line. 10:00pm I will go as planned. Sent Today, 08:59 PM I have bought and sold many watches over the years. I have received many that were not exactly right for me and sold them off to others. I had to give a refund once and got a refund once. No big deal. Life goes on. You are being entirely out of line. 10:00pm I will go as planned. Sent Today, 08:59 PM I have bought and sold many watches over the years. I have received many that were not exactly right for me and sold them off to others. I had to give a refund once and got a refund once. No big deal. Life goes on. You are being entirely out of line. 10:00pm I will go as planned. Sent Today, 08:59 PM I have bought and sold many watches over the years. I have received many that were not exactly right for me and sold them off to others. I had to give a refund once and got a refund once. No big deal. Life goes on. You are being entirely out of line. 10:00pm I will go as planned. Sent Today, 08:59 PM I have bought and sold many watches over the years. I have received many that were not exactly right for me and sold them off to others. I had to give a refund once and got a refund once. No big deal. Life goes on. You are being entirely out of line. 10:00pm I will go as planned. 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Ztech Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Thats a bummer hackR. I hope it all ends well, although I have my doubts. What can you say? We live in a world full of gray. I'm hoping for 2 things here... 1. this situation gets solved in an amicable fashion. 2. that you won't take me off your list of people you will be selling to. Do what I do. Take a step back and throw down a few beers, in my case several large shots of single malt whiskey, and see how things end up. Either way, those who know your character here don't need to question your motives or your actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 R.. I'm sorry to hear about the issues your dealing with It is unwarranted for sure..' too many members that come on board feel like they are buying a genuine from an AD.. even the watches we buy brand new from dealers need modding.. your wrist is the same size as mine.. and I doubt it would be an issue.. I only deal with members that I know and that have been here for awhile another reason I don't sell any of my reps weather they are fresh outta the box or have been to Ziggy.. members expectations are unrealistic ..they wouldn't be happy if it were a genuine .. I've purchased genuine that have had little chips in the crystal .. but don't think of asking for a "partial" refund..from the seller.. in the years that I have been collecting reps .. I have had many request from members that come on board to sell them one of my reps.. never have.. for the simple reason that the law of averages are against such deals.. hope it works out for you buddy.. AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 @Hack Thanks for posting this... I'm going to keep an eye on it and see exactly how it unfolds from here... Already have a sneaky feeling what my next move will be... TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 No excuse for this kind of behavior. That kind of members should not sell or buy here or elsewhere in this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 thanks, guys... i bring this up for 2 reasons: 1) i'm [censored]... 2) sales go well with open, honest, communication... I strive to be open, honest and forthright with all members - through all interactions...I am far from perfect, but i do my best to be respected here on RWG...losing my reputation over a replica isn't worth it... Part of the fun in this hobby is buying/trying/selling/trading...it works for all - when done right... off to have a beer... R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 ..............................I feel for you my friend! We just have too many members who doesn't get it! I have had a few of these miss-deals.....and most of the time end up on the losing end! I hope it doesn't get any worst than it already is! Cheers and good luck, F- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Let's cut to the chase. I have been a member here for quite a while with VIP status. I read alot, learn alot and also buy and sell watches now and then with no problems at all. By Tor, I even bought one from you that I am wearing right now! The simple fact of the matter is the watch did not fit me. I have a 7.5 inch wrist, Hack said it was 7.65in but when I received the watch it didn't fit. I thought he said he would give me a refund if it didn't fit. I gave him ample chances to come to a conclusion. This is the first time I had to put in a dispute, I didn't want to but Hack being quite an a**hole about the transaction. I have plenty of people that will stand up for me also. People that I have sold to or bought from with no problems, but when someone had a problem....I would take care of them. I am a nice guy, never want any problems. I could have just sold it to someone else, I guess. I told myself that I would never dispute through PP but Hack gave me no choice. Nothing else to say on this matter. You can all bash me if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 not going to publicly debate this with you... your true colors are coming thru with your "kind words"... you are a liar...you are told the watch is sized for 7.65"...you respond you have a large wrist and need extra links...i did tell you i would refund it if it i couldn't find them...i offered that to you when i couldn't...you say "send it"...i did...and then the lies start...it comes, it's fine...you need links and post for them...a WHOLE day of searching goes by without anyone responding...you request a refund...without a reply from me, you send the watch and then demand a refund...lastly, you measure your wrist and it is suddenly 7"...and then there's a crown problem?... and now you say your wrist is 7.5"?!?!?...wow - interesting wrist you have.... look...i have no issues fighting you with paypal...simply because its right...there's simply no gray in here to debate... anyone reading the pm dialog will see that you accepted the watch - said it was fine, searched an entire WHOLE day for extra links, and then decided you wanted a refund...and without any reply from me, you arbitrarily send it to me demanding a refund... from where i come from, this stinks... it is what it is...i think members will see through this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 I have a 7.5 in wrist. Miskeyed, sorry. It still didn't fit. There is an issue with the crown also but I could have lived with it and didn't bring it up. Again trying to be a nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 hank, I'm genuiney sorry that you're experiencing some headaches. I feel the same at the moment for hackR. Now that we all know the parties involved lets put in a real effort to resolve this issue in the best way possible. I think if you've been around reps long enough you're bound to see some bad and some good things happen. It's a part of life. So lets not loose sight of the fact these are watches we're taling about and not let it get outta hand. I hate to see this kinda stuff happen. It hurts us all. So... how about we give it a go and see if we can't get her fixed. z P.S. IMHO these situations mostly come about due to miscommunication or the lack thereof. I bet if you guys both took a step back and come back after a few beers your perspectives might change quite drastically. Best of luck to all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 What bracelet is it... there's a simple solution tot he issue.. without it getting ugly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheaton26 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 What bracelet is it... there's a simple solution tot he issue.. without it getting ugly.. from a quick search, it looks like a 41mm rolex day date. the problem is that the watch is on its way back to hack. weird scenario from two long time members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Z - thanks for trying to arbitrate this...i appreciate it... i wish this was different, but there's really no gray for me...never was their an implication the watch would be sent and could be refunded somewhere later down the line...i asked him what he wanted me to do with the transaction because there was no other links and the watch was sized for my 7.5" wrist with a little play (up to 7.65")...he said "send it"...there was no conditions on the "send it"...he simply decided he didn't want it - or to search longer for a link or two...and took matters into his own hands with a return without discussing that with me... i'm sorry - but this is all bad business... R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Qutoe from Hack: I don't see the problem?? Sent 26 July 2010 - 05:39 PM will do...just can't recall...got this in a quick deal...will let you know... and no worries, if it won't fit b/c i can't find links, i'll gladly refund your money...i hope i find them for you, xxx... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Simple solution would have been post a "need links".. which I have.. The buyer should know how this community supports it's members by now ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 this is ridiculous...your grasping for some leg to stand on...please don't try to paint a different picture of my position with half the story... armed with all the facts, you simply had a change of heart on the piece and decided to take matters into your own hands - sending it back and demanding a refund...this just isn't right - which is why i'm [censored] about it - and why members can learn from this... Sent 27 July 2010 - 07:48 AM morning...i checked the link with the watch and it looks similar, but isn't...oh well...i checked the pm from the yyy-origowner - who i bought it from - and it is what it is...the watch bracelet came as is with all the links he had...it fits my 7.5" wrist slightly loosely...doesn't flop, but there's a little room so its definitely not tight... will this work for you?... Sent 27 July 2010 - 08:06 AM Sounds good. Send it.. Thanks Sent 29 July 2010 - 02:57 PM Received the watch. Thanks. I do need another link. I put an alert out on RG and RWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 While I can totally understand the frustrations from both parties, the fact is that there was a considerable amount of impatience on Hank's end. Clearly he did not wait for Hack to respond to any of the PM's and just went ahead and sent it back. Now you're threatening with a PP dispute without even giving Hack an opportunity to discuss the situation with you. Sorry, but based on the very clear outline Hack posted with both of your PM's, I have to say that you jumped the gun there Hank. I think you are pulling the trigger way before you even have any sort of target in sight. Feel for you R....this sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Simple solution would have been post a "need links".. which I have.. The buyer should know how this community supports it's members by now ?? I did that a couple of days ago. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 A couple of links sent to Hack then he can send it back. Otherwise keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 So you posted a request for extra links on the 29th, and after waiting a day and a half you just decide to send it back without even discussing it with HackR?? That's quite the interesting solution to your problem there Hank. Sorry but I just don't see this resolving in your favor at this point. People wait months and months to get WM9 watches and you couldn't even wait for a response after a day and half. Did you even try to bump the topic? Sure doesn't look like it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 @members... i think its best for us all to not take sides...we all should just take it in...for the sake of this community, let's let this go without taking sides or comments either way...comments are best left to pms...i have no malice toward hank personally, i just don't agree with his practice...that's why i decided to take a stand...out of principle... i didn't plan to make this public with hank - and did and would have kept it private...i posted this first as a vent, but secondly with a purpose...i found it unacceptable that this "change of heart" should have to come at my expense - after i thought i fully communicated with the buyer...i never for once thought that someone would accept a shipment, receive the piece - and then decide to return and demand for a refund; without dialog... oh well... so...let's please - for the sake of who we are, let this go...sorry this became public in a confrontational way... R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Hank, you have a PM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank7502 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Don't tell me about waiting. I have 3 watches coming from BK. Maybe I did jump the gun. If Hack can get 2 links. Send it back. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 People need to remember this isn't Walmart.. and stuff does not have a no obligation warranty, trial period, refund policy etc. Its simple enough, make sure you really want the item before you pay. Ask any questions you need to. If it arrives as advertised then you own it. Wrist measurements are notoriously hard to make, and inconsistent. I can't imagine any seller giving a guarantee that a watch will fit, especially given the tolerances you're described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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