lionsandtigers Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 2 problematic eta movements in one week. both times removing crown with TINY screwdriver and almost no pressure, both times keyless works go out of wack, both times get them back in order, both times putting the crown back in, and both times it grabs, but nothing works. what the hell???????? this should really not happen, [censored]!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 man that sux ! was it a 1.2 mm screw driver! man this is one for The Zigmeister ! man i hope you get her going ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 thanks bro, i just dont get it. seriously, i am barely touching the release, and everything goes bonkers!!!! 2 mbw's, a 1680 and a 1665. it doesnt make sense to me after seeing so many successful mods and repairs on this board, that my 2 mbws would act up like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 bro make sure your useing a 1.2 mm screw driver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 yup, 1.2mm, dont know why that piece is just going haywire on both movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I am sorry to hear it. I have had no problem with my MBW's or any of my confirmed ETA's for that matter. As other folks have already mentioned releasing the keyless works is a very tricky thing. I commend you for attempting it yourself. I gave in quite a while ago and send all my better movements to Ziggy for servicing shortly after receipt. He has serviced everything from 6497's to 2824/36's to 7753's to 2892/3's and they always have performed better than my Asian movements. They sound and feel better too. On the MBW's they are definitely worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 well, looks like off to The Zigmeister they go!!!!! before i strangle someone, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 By the way if you are sending off the MBW's don't forget to add whatever gen parts you want to add and haven't yet installed and consider a relum. He does a fabulous vintage tritium look with that slight tinge of glow. You're only downside is that it is addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 One thing that I absolutely must stress- When releasing the stem, the crown needs to be in the time setting position. If it's not, you risk the clutch slipping, which can cause problems as well. I've had my share of ETA problems... But I've also had a fair amount of successes. Took me a little time and practice to get the hang of things in the begining, but once you get used to tinkering with these, it's not so bad. Keep your chin up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 thanks randy, the crown has always been in that position, not exactly sure why this is happening, but i guess its not that big of a deal, i can rework the cgs and replace the crown and tubes while I send the movements off to The Zigmeister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 i can never get that right either....pops out of whack every time! can someone PLEASE do a pictorial instruction how to safely remove and replace the stem without jacking the keyless works???? PLEASE!!! i can only do work on unitas untill i figure this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leitztozeiss Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 That's how I screwed up my 1665. I was very careful pressing the release button, and yet still a dropped works. Luckily, my 1665 is finally coming home tomorrow from daytonat. Yahoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 pretty damn frustraiting, guess i'm just gonna have to have these 2 movements serviced to ensure it wont happen again, or at least not as ofter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Sounds like a very frustrating week. I've always used the end of a paper clip or something like that and apply the slightest amount of pressure while gently pulling the crown out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkitesurf Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Dude, If you look at the hole on the pictorial of Bazz.... You see a rectangle around the pin. Just make sure (like Ubi said) that you have the crown in pulled out position and press a screwdriver in there that is exactly as wide as the rectangle. Just press gently while pulling the crown.... of it goes. Just don't attempt this with a pin which is smaller than the rectangle because no matter how soft you push... the button is pressed and comes loose and you never have enough reaction speed to stop the pressure before it goes under. You really can't go wrong. O hell it's happened anyway... but it is fairly easy to put the keyless work back... Make sure you have the right tools like the hand remover... You saw the Bazz pictorial... Not bad to have them cleaned and services anyway... They will last even longer that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 One thing that I absolutely must stress- When releasing the stem, the crown needs to be in the time setting position. If it's not, you risk the clutch slipping, which can cause problems as well. I've had my share of ETA problems... But I've also had a fair amount of successes. Took me a little time and practice to get the hang of things in the begining, but once you get used to tinkering with these, it's not so bad. Keep your chin up... hey UBI i release the crown at HACK & seen to work ok , is that proper ? to release at hack ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 hey UBI i release the crown at HACK & seen to work ok , is that proper ? to release at hack ? Hack is time-setting, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Without sitting beside you, and watching what your doing, it's impossible for me to even try and guess what is going on... I differ from the norm (probably in more ways than one) when it comes to the position of the crown, when you remove the stem. I always remove the stem with the crown in the "WINDING" position, not the time setting one... I know the mainstream is to have the sliding pinon held in place with the yoke holding it in place by the spring...BUT I find this the most risky position due to the way the rest of the keyless works is held together. The risk in this position is that when you try and put the stem in place, as soon as the stem starts to push up on the set lever to allow it to lock, the yoke slips off of the sliding pinion, and snaps out of place...which typically causes exactly the situation you describe. With the crown in the winding position, you have a number of benifits that prevent (in my humble) opinion this problem: 1. The sliding pinion is against the crown gear, which means that as soon as the square boss on the stem enters the movement, it is engaged into the crown and sliding pinion gears and secures them and prevents them (and the yoke as well) from slipping out of place. 2. If the sliding pinion is not against the crown gear, the crown gear can fall down and not allow the stem to slide in place, this is a big issue on 7750 movements and very critical on this model. 3. The fact that there is no pressure against the yoke, or sliding pinion or crown gear (as soon as you go from the winding position, there is pressure on the yoke from the spring attached to it) means that when the set lever is displaced to allow the pin on it to engage into the stem, there is no risk of anything poping out of place. No spring pressure = no risk of something popping out of place... On a 2836-2, you can get the stem to insert without pressing on the release pin, as long as you gently rotate the stem as you insert it, it should seat in without any problems. On the 7750 models, you have to press the stem release in order for the stem to fit in place. No matter how good a tuturiol, someone is going to run into problems at some time... I have always removed the stems in the WINDING position, as did my late uncle who was my mentor... It has always worked fine for me, and I have never had any issues with removal or installation... I can't speak for what works for others, and I know the mainstream is to pull the watch to the time setting position, but in my experience, that is the worse position to have as everything is under pressure, a slight jar, or pressure during stem installation, and the whole works lets go...and then you have to take the watch apart... If you do send me these, I would bet that the yoke has popped out of the sliding gear, whenever I see this, typically, it's due to the watch being in the time setting position when the stem was removed. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I always remove the stem with the crown in the "WINDING" position, not the time setting one... Ah, yes, but you remove movements with the intention of stripping them down and as such will be releasing the main spring as part of the job. For us mere mortals, we need the watch stopped so we can put the hands back on in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Well, I cannot deny that Ziggy knows his stuff, and if he recommends release at the winding position, then that's sound advice in my opinion My personal experience has always been good when releasing the stem in the time setting position; so maybe both stem positions work okay for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 (edited) My personal experience has always been good when releasing the stem in the time setting position; so maybe both stem positions work okay for this? It's hard to diagnose what could be going wrong, without being there... The time setting position works great for you, as you dont' have any problems, same for the winding one for me...we both have a lot of experience removing the stems, and have a "feel" for it if you will...there is nothing wrong with the time setting position, as it works for you...but I always seem to have problems in that position..so I use the winding one... Trying this for the first time is always a risk, there are so many things we who have done this many times are doing - without even thinking about it - that it's impossible to write them all down... What works great for one is not so great for another... 5 minutes at the workbench would explain it all and clear it all up, trying to type that in text, would take a long time, and still not be very clear... I suspect that either of us watching as the stem was inserted would pick on what caused this to happen, it's probably a simple thing to us, but maybe not so intuitive if you havent' done it a hundred times. I am capable of stripping a 7750 - that is in the case with the dial and hands attached - to all 100+ parts in the parts bin and ready for a wash...in less than 20 minutes...assembly is another story, but I can get them apart pretty fast.....6497-1, from full assembled, to all apart - 7 mintues - and who says a chrono is of no value...my 196 is the best tool I have...assembly is a lot longer as you can imagine. It all comes with experience and doing the same job over and over... RG Edited September 25, 2006 by ziggyzumba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Indeed, Rob- All great points, and as with anything, different methods and experiences all result in different perspectives. I certainly don't have the knowledge nor expertise in complete movement overhauls (that's why I send mine to you ); I absolutely do feel that we are all quite fortunate to have your knowledge here with us on the forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 i love you all, no, seriously, i do :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 i love you all, no, seriously, i do :) Hopefully in a Non-Brookback mountain type of way... I just had another thought. After I service a movement, it is always in the time setting position...which is why I guess I always use that position when I remove the stem...normally if the stem is coming out, the movement is coming apart as well. If you disassemble a movement, you can only assemble the keyless works in the winding position, you can't assemble it in the time setting one as the parts would fly out before you got the cover on, and on some models (2836) the spring for the yoke lever is actually part of the keyless works cover. So following overhaul, you have to insert the stem from the time setting position, as this is where it ends up after assembly. I knew there was a good reason I did this, just couldn't remember it...now where is my tea, I need some caffeine... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted September 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 no no, not in a brokeback way, hahahahaha. in a "you have all made my life alot easier" way!!! jesus........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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