LeSentier Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hi all, Hm,.... How shall I begin..? Had my weekly chat with Domi regarding this project. I also was able to source the parts for the modification. Domi built a watch to test if the performed moddings leads the movement to be reliable, and we will see how it performs within the next weeks. Freddy did a great job on several watches, and showed that the graphite job is still doing great work on his Daytonas. But as mentioned before, these were all 1st gen watches, and I have read and heard about sec@6 movements that wrecked although the graphite treatment. Maybe it was the wrong proceedure, maybe not. For me, the graphite treatment is a no-go, since you could end up with a $$ paperweight, as discussed before, and it is as risky as the modded movement ( since there is no long term test period at this moment). To put in a nutshell: We ( Domi and I) are convinced that it is possible to build a reliable daytona with several additional wheels and bearings, and approx. 5-6 hours of work ( from a skilled watchmaker!!!) ! There is no long term guarantee, since the test watch is only running for a a couple of weeks. Said that, you can calculate the costs as following: Base watch: € 220 Parts: € 190 Labour: € 200 ( just for the project, maybe more for the future) Shipping: 20 So, you end up with costs around 600- 650 Euro - in $ even more. You will receive a (hopefuly) reliable Daytona sec@6, with a still too thick case. Compared to the real thing, the thickness of the rep case IS an issue, if you are looking for an accurate one. If this doesn't bother you, you're welcome to build one. I must say, that I calculated about € 800 to spend on this project, but seeing a rep and gen in nature ( compared to the case), I must unfotunately say that this project died for me at this stage. But I am not despaired, I have the time to wait until a cheaper solution appears. The factories have all possibilities to make this one reliable, and I am not willing to burn my cash because they are too lazy to do so... Thanks to all who supported this thread with their knowledge and their connections, Thx, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Yeah, it was either RWI or RG, but the results were quite stark, with a 50% failure rate, treated or untreated, there were quite a few poll options to select. I remember reading from members who had their watches treated, only for it still to fail... There is a question of the quality of the work done and the general accuracy of polls of course, but the numbers still looked very bad, and not all the work could have been poorly handled for every watch! The general consensus was: secs@6 = paperweight joerg, interesting stuff indeed Will there be a detailed write up on this, where did you source the parts, and what were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Will there be a detailed write up on this, where did you source the parts, and what were they? Mickey, I could tell you, but than had to kill you.... Just kidding... Serious: I organized two sec@12 movements for a very good price from a reputable dealer here ( can't name him w/o his permission) - the used parts were the wheels described above, includind a swap of the bearings, sweat, blood and cash.... We will see how this thick piece of sheeeet will do during the next weeks...or days Thx Mickey for your kind words.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Cool, good to know the sec@12 movements are available There are different Daytona rep cases available, some are slightly thinner than others, however, there is no real cure for this problem, unless you replicate the Rolex movement! I still can't figure out why there is no pre-2000 Daytona using the tighter Subdial secs@9 A7750 based movement, the factories are not making one, when the potential buyers are there in their thousands! That might be a better project, but then the problem is the new dial that will be required. I wonder how thick the tighter subdial sec@9 is, compared to the secs@6? We know it is much, much more reliable..... Also, I wonder how much the secs@9 tight subdial A7750 movement costs, and if it would be better to transfer parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Freddy did a great job on several watches, and showed that the graphite job is still doing great work on his Daytonas. But as mentioned before, these were all 1st gen watches No, the watches I treated were all the current version movements (my own personal watches are 1st gens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 No, the watches I treated were all the current version movements (my own personal watches are 1st gens). Ok, might be. But some are working, some are not. Your's do work, so the graphite did it's job on yours, on the other current movements treated by you, too. Domi said, some failed, some are still working. Nothing for me, no russian roulette, not worth to burn my hard earned cash. That's my conclusion. But it was worth a try, and worth to discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast68 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Interesting thread, thanks for sharing this joerg. Its a shame that even after all this time, and all the other advances in the rep watch industry, we still don't see a modern style Daytona worth owning. They have been proven to be pretty to look at but worthless as a functioning watch (unless you get lucky). Rep makers appear to have zero interest in producing a better Daytona, so at this point, anyone looking for a good rep Daytona would be better off going with a Spinmaster vintage build or go the extra 5 miles with a custom V72 franken or a Movado/Zenith franken build. Much pricier solutions I'll admit, but when you are done, you really have something special. For me, after a lot of thought on the subject, even though I would love to own a Daytona, the cost of building a good one (or buying a gen) is just not worth it, and thus I move on happily without one. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 so the graphite did it's job on yours, on the other current movements treated by you, too. joerg - For some reason, my message is not getting through as intended. My 2 (1st gen) secs @ 6 Daytonas have never been treated & have been running, trouble-free since they were purchased 4.5+ years ago. The point here is that the 1st gen secs @ 6 A7750 movement seems to be hearty & fairly reliable. If you want a secs @ 6 Daytona, see my 'Perfect Daytona' posting. In the case of later/current versions of the secs @ 6 A7750 movements used in modern 1165xx Daytonas, when powdered (not liquid) graphite is applied to a properly serviced/running movement as described in my original posting, it should eliminate the friction problems inherent to the additional gearing required to relocate the running seconds. Powdered graphite is not a panacea for all of the potential problems that may exist within a used mechanical movement. In other words, treating an unserviced movement or 1 that may have other mechanical problems may result in less than satisfactory results. Not to say that if you have a dead movement, the powdered graphite treatment should not be attempted. I am only saying that there are many things that can cause a secs @ 6 A7750 to fail & these should always be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 joerg - For some reason, my message is not getting through as intended. My 2 (1st gen) secs @ 6 Daytonas have never been treated & have been running, trouble-free since they were purchased 4.5+ years ago. Freddy, now I've got it... Everything else you said is valid - you probably can't cure a dead or misbuilt movement. I read your thread and learned a lot ! Best, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Everything else you said is valid - you probably can't cure a dead or misbuilt movement. Actually, sometimes you can (cure a dead movement). As I explained in my original powdered graphite thread, the watch used to test the process was DOA (prior to the treatment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeynutsack Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Why would anyone go through the trouble of buying a timebomb A7750 sec 6 daytona with the thick case sloped bezel? The best bet is the 21j less thick case, less sloped bezel and just have the chrono second hand frozen @ 12 by modder and good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilyailya Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Freddy , you should sell me one of those 1 G ones i asked a year or 2 back, you said no. I dont think you changed your mind this year either, looks good man. I wanted one sooo bad, almost thought about buying a gen, but then I slapped my self saying" are you crazy spending 10k on a watch " and bought my self a modded 236k which i love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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