omgiv Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi Guys, I was hoping that someone on the board could tell me if the Rolex 4030 minute wheel and the Zenith 400 minute wheel are actually the same. I am trying desperately to find out and am running out of resources. Thanks in advance for any help!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi Guys, I was hoping that someone on the board could tell me if the Rolex 4030 minute wheel and the Zenith 400 minute wheel are actually the same. I am trying desperately to find out and am running out of resources. Thanks in advance for any help!!!!!!! Ubi? Didn't we get these for your projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I cannot answer your question, but I know that Rolex ascribes a part number to the 4030 Minute Wheel (4030-260), so it may very well be unique to the 4030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think it is different. Not sure though, it's been a while since my franken 16520 was in the making... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Gots to have these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks Guys! Here is a picture of the Rolex minute wheel (left) next to the Zenith counterpart (right). I have all of the parts that Ubi listed (and more). I was going to post a list eventually but wanted to have it completed. I have the cannon pinion mounted but the time setting is a little rough. I think that it is the Rolex cannon pinion meshing with the Zenith minute wheel. I think that the teeth on the Zenith wheel are a little thinner and the setting just isn't smooth. What do your eyes see? Does anyone know where I might be able to pick up a Rolex minute wheel? My sources have run out and I am getting pretty desperate. Thanks again!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 The minute wheel is the same, it isn't the source of the roughness or the problem. The problem is the incompatibility of the rollie cannon pinion and the zenith center wheel. Rolex replaces the center wheel (along with a bunch of other stuff) when the modify the zenith. The center wheel is the one that the cannon pinion fits onto, the one with the post sticking out. The reason you need a new center wheel, is that the rollie cannon pinion has a smaller diameter hole than the zenith, and the only fix is to remove the center wheel, mount it in a lathe, and turn down the post for the cannon pinion until it fits correctly. There are many other issues and problems you are going to run into as soon as you start to change the parts, too many problems to mention and try and explain. The old rule applies, you change 1 thing, you affect 12 others... I have build a number of these and they are extremely time consuming as soon as you start to install rollie parts. If you are doing the upgrade, or if you have someone doing it for you, I hope they are very very skilled watchmakers, otherwise your in for a rough ride, I still have the scars and emotional trauma from doing it myself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I still have the scars and emotional trauma from doing it myself... Hope you are not too traumatized... I still have mine to send up to you at some point or another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hope you are not too traumatized... I still have mine to send up to you at some point or another At least let me recover and finish this round of therapy before you send it in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks for the reply The Zigmeister and insight. I am doing the work myself and haven't had too much of a bad time yet. I actually replaced the center wheel with a Rolex center wheel. I did it for 2 reasons. The first was that the Rolex chronograph wheel would not fit through the Zenith center wheel. I opened up the Zenith wheel enough to let it through but was not happy with the end product. The Rolex wheel has the same pivots sizes so it fit in the plate with no adjustment needed. It also has the same number of teeth on the wheel and pinion, and the tooth pitch are the same as well. The second reason was the one you mentioned. The Rolex cannon pinion would not fit on the Zenith center wheel without some major broaching or turning down of the center wheel as you mentioned. I have the watch running on my bench and it is running like a champ. I have placed the Rolex cannon pinion next to the Zentih minute wheel and the Zenith cannon pinion next to the minute wheel, and there does seem to be some differences in the amount of play in the teeth. I will see if I can get a good enough picture to tell. I trust your opinion and experience The Zigmeister. If I have already replaced the center wheel and cannon pinion, is it possible that it is the minute wheel? Thanks!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Understood on all points, good move replacing the center wheel, it saves a lot of problems. If I have already replaced the center wheel and cannon pinion, is it possible that it is the minute wheel? Thanks!!!!!! I have never had an issue with the zenith minute wheel meshing with the rolex cannon and hour wheels. If you only feel resistance when setting the time, it is probably not a concern. You could remove the pallets, then with the cannon and hour in place, wind slightly and see how well it turns and how smooth it spins, then remove the cannon and hour and wind again and compare. I belive that you won't find any problems or variation with the parts in place or removed, meaning that the issue is restricted to time setting, not running... The friction is most likely the cannon gear turning on the center wheel. Not sure what you lubed the cannon with, try PML or some K22 stem grease, it makes it feel silkier than D5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Not sure what you lubed the cannon with, try PML or some K22 stem grease, it makes it feel silkier than D5. Ditto (PML 163, if you can find it, or 80, if you cannot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 @The Zigmeister Thanks again for the help! I did grease the center wheel post with D5. I have some K22 and PML stem grease, and I will give those a shot to see if that helps smooth it out.. I did have to broach the cannon pinion a little to fit. I ran a smoothing broach through it, but perhaps there is a burr causing the rough feeling. I will look the again as well. @freddy333 I have never heard of PML 163 or 80. I just looked at Jules borel's site and they say they are the same. I thought that PML was made by Nye and wasn't aware there were different kinds of PML. Is PML 163 a liquid oil? Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I have never heard of PML 163 or 80. I just looked at Jules borel's site and they say they are the same. I thought that PML was made by Nye and wasn't aware there were different kinds of PML. Is PML 163 a liquid oil? Rolex recommended PML 163 oil (as opposed to PML grease) for various parts of their watches. PML 80 is the modern replacement, which is why you are more likely to see that instead of 163 A number of Rolex-recommended lubricants have been superseded over the years with more modern replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The Zigmeister was traumatized by mine, I'm sure... I'm just glad he still speaks to me. Mine is tight during time setting, and much better in the counterclockwise direction for whatever reason. It does not bother me, so long as crowns don't continue breaking! At some point down the road, after Zig has perfected the procedure on Ubi's, I'll send mine up for a full breakdown servicing and hopefully convince him to take care of it at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 After playing with the movement for about an hour, I concluded it wasn't the minute wheel after all. I had replaced the yoke for sliding pinion (4030-240) to make it a two stem crown position instead of three. I kept the Zenith setting lever and date corrector lever. It seems that the little lever on the setting lever wasn't able to drive the wheels on the date corrector lever far enough into the setting wheel and setting minute wheel. I have the Rolex setting lever as well and am hoping that changing the intermediate setting wheel will help. I would like to keep this as a 2 position crown than 3 (as per gen). But it is like The Zigmeister said...you change one part and it affects 3 others. Thanks again for the help and tips!!!! Will keep you posted....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiesn089 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Good luck, I'm sure this will be an exceptional piece once finished! I'm really looking forward to your pictures once you have finished this beauty. I love these EL Primero frankens for the fact that they actually use the amazing Zenith movement rather than Rolex modified version. For me an El Primero is as legendary as for example a Cal. 321 Omega and shouldn't be missing in any serious chronograph collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks wiesn089!!!! It has certainly taken a long time to acquire the parts. The only things I am missing are the case and bracelet (after I get the movement in order). I love the SEL bracelet, but just don't know about the polished center links. I am thinking of brushing the entire bracelet. I have seen people do it on their GMT IIC's but haven't really seen one on a Daytona. Hope to post something soon!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Keep the polished center links, IMO. They're not nearly as gaudy in person as they appear in pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgiv Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks Chief!!! I have to admit that I brushed the middle links on my rep GMT IIC and I prefer it that way. The scratches on the polished links just always bother me I may live with it for a while and see how I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 The polished bracelets on modern Daytonas are what keep me from wearing mine often (though none are for sale). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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