w0lf Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Evening friends, I had a little bit of time to myself this evening and instead of doing something productive, of course, I decided that I have to post two of my most favorite watches here. That and the fact that if I see another "QC dealer pics" or 005K thread I will bestow some serious a$$ whooping on the TS..... j/k it's all good ... or not, no really, we're all pals m8s here Be as it may, the watches I'm posting about arguably aren't half as exciting as the shiny new H-factory end all be all PAM rep, but rather they come from a different era. Time flowed slower, parts were scarcer and friendships were forged over a, sometimes virtual, pint and a triple gasket OEM crown It took a long time to put something special together, but it meant a hell of a lot more. The two Honpo GMTs I hastily photographed are special to me not so much because they're freaking awesome..(lets face it, there's maybe a total of 20-30 of those 29's out there) but because while getting them correct, I met some wonderful folks right here on RWG. I want to thank Watchmeister, Ubiquitous and Dluddy for all of their help and support and of course our resident wizard The Zigmeister for impeccable craftsmanship that made it all possible! Seriously guys, I know I should dial down the cheese but it's from the heart My PAM63 and PAM29, actually the only two complete watches I now own: In case you're not familiar with rep history, here's a little something I was able to piece together from reading the forum and having drawn out discussions with original gangstas. If my timeline or facts are skewed, please feel free to add or correct WatchHonpo was a niche Japanese rep dealer that was commissioning high end PAM builds ~2004-2007 in small batches. They would typically do a run of 50-100 watches and won't start the next model until they sold out. The name WatchHonpo is still around, but like RXW, nobody really knows if it's the same folks as the stuff on their website looks to be run of the mill China reps. Back in the day, W.H.'s GMT, PR, subs and chronographs were the best and most high end replication efforts around. Some, including yours truly, would tend to think that they still are. You could say they were to PAM reps what MBW was to Rolex reps in terms of quality. W.H. laid the foundation for many years to come with their designs, for example they were the only ones with a correct PAM187 rep powered by ETA7753 and a real titanium PAM194 of which there are only two left across all fora. W.H. are also the reason for misspellings in OFFICNE PANERAI engravings, and the "B" millesimation on all consecutive iterations of PAM63 of which there are now 6 distinct versions. W.H. watches are better in every regard in comparison to the same models that followed from, quite possibly, the same China factory when W.H. stopped commissioning high end builds. W.H. were the only models with running sequential production numbers on the caseback, usually low numbers in sub 100 range. Word has it, that their first fifty PR dials were made by the same dial print shop that Panerai used themselves. Don't know if there's any truth to this but it's just something I heard. Since W.H. used their own CAD we ended up with some very well known and documented artifacts for years to come, e.g. low-bar 'As' that mutated and made it into many consecutive models throughout the range. The factory simply copied from their stuff rather then starting from scratch. Naturally, the factory kept churning out those models for EL, River, Josh, Silix an other prominent dealers at the time since they already had most of the tech squared away. Within a short period of time, the ETA powered models gave way to clones wrapped in similar sheet metal but more obscure movement models disappeared completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Love them. I'm just waiting for the H5 gears to arrive for my 2893, then I'll be hitting my 029 again In the meantime I'm lovin' my 063. As for those new 005K 111L etc.. I decided against picking them up because half the fun of this hobby, for me, is the parts sourcing and modding that goes into the pieces I wear That reminds me, I still haven't installed my Honpo/Chief Cyclops 063 sapphire, that I picked up. EDIT: Is the CG lever on the 063 sitting very high off the case, or is it just not closed down completely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks, it could be not locked completely or it could be a slightly older pic that with a stock CG lever, I've replaced with Sead levers since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I will try and throw a pic of my 063 up in the next couple of days. Agree - the WHP watches were great. I still hope to upgrade my 063 someday to a dial without low bar A's. It is the only PAM I have that does not have either a new era rep dial or a gen dial. Someone revive the 063 and make a correct dial!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadToucha Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I usually don't like date cyclops on watch but i have to say that dial is freaking beautifull (and rare) !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Great watches and absolutely wonderful history. Honpo was really the first dealer to recreate their watches with a gen in hand. At the time they were signiificantly more expensive. They had been making them for the Japanese market only as at the time it was the most sophisticated rep market with people willing to spend $800-$1,000 for a rep. And it all began on our forums when a rogue salesman posted a couple of pieces on eBay - the legendary Kenji. I can't tell you how painful it was to communicate with him as he spoke little to no English. Ultimately a guy named Ken (always wondered if it was the person as his name was Ken) set up shop in Florida. Unfortunately he didn't last long. Most importantly, congratulations on a wonderful pair of watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 M, Thanks mate for sharing I see you stopped procrastinating long enough to do a great little write up and a great reminder of what this game is really about...and how much satisfaction and pleasure can be gained in the journey !! and I aint talking about EMS!!! Its so refreshing to see models like this on here rather than Here's my QC pics, Where do I buy, and which is the best ....?? then watch those guys disappear till the next time !! I am not really a fan of the Auto 44mm but seeing your pics of that 29 it is simply mouth watering.... Thanks for taking the time to share mate and the great info.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks for taking us on the journey with you M.. sounds a bit like mine and this is a pair that have never left my collection and I still have small tweaks planned (seems to never end, doesn't it?) It's what the hobby is all about for me - the journey and the M8tes friends you make along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks for all the kind words guys! Thanks for taking us on the journey with you M.. sounds a bit like mine and this is a pair that have never left my collection and I still have small tweaks planned (seems to never end, doesn't it?) It's what the hobby is all about for me - the journey and the M8tes friends you make along the way D, for sure, thank you! I just realized something, and I hope you can forgive me not mentioning, my parts hunt began with you sending me a Chief cyclops 2 years ago! It took me another year to source the 2nd one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I will try and throw a pic of my 063 up in the next couple of days. Agree - the WHP watches were great. I still hope to upgrade my 063 someday to a dial without low bar A's. It is the only PAM I have that does not have either a new era rep dial or a gen dial. Someone revive the 063 and make a correct dial!!! And you know whats really funny, the 6th generation of PAM63 is a DSN version that came out along with his T dial PAM23. If you look at the 23 dial it has high bar A's but his new 63 dial STILL has low bar A's. Talk about how prolific that first WH dial was, it has been over 5 years and they still copy their original flawed design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikequebec Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Wolf your knowledge and insight are greatly appreciated. I have the good fortune of acquiring some choice items from you. Your posts and info are must reads. Thanks indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK471 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Rare birds! So glad to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Great watches Wolf. I was lucky to have two of Honpo creations, a 2893 029 and a 7750 187. Great watches, great old times, very good memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yangui Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Ouch that hurts Wolf! These are my two grail watches ever... And yours are absolutely wonderful! I want to enter the competition but I'm still looking for a decent PAM029 caseset. Common guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Those look amazing! The pin-striped dial (if you will) is really, really cool! All in all, two stellar watches that would make most drool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_man_may Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 A fascinating read and beautiful watches. I wish I knew where to start with modding, if I did, I would create franken's like the ones I drool over on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolikat Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 A Honpo 187 is my grail watch. One day!! One day!! Those are beauties wolf!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks very much guys! Just in case anyone is worndering what went into the two-- 29 Build List: Honpo base w/ ETA2893-2 (OFFICNE full deco) Finepics glossy relume Finepics 2893 DW Chief Cyclops MT crystal (much clearer than stock Honpo or old cartel) OEM crown / The Zigmeister custom tube OEM GMT Handstack OEM semimatte calf 63 Build List: Honpo base w/ ETA2893 with H5 kit (Geneva striping / top grade) The Zigmeister matte Relume Lello 2893 DW Chief Cyclops MT crystal OEM crown / The Zigmeister custom tube OEM semimatte gator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yangui Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Wolf, does the 29b has the H5 canon pinion too? And CGs are Honpo except the levers from Sead right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The 29 comes with the right 2893 pinion kit from the factory and both cgs are honpo, Sead levers fit right in. In fact that's the only kind of lever I found to be tall enough in the profile for honpo CG body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Is the glossy lume a constant detail in the gen? Zig has done awesome work...I love these pics..... Keep coming back to them Whats an MT crystal? (Matts?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Mt=militarytime, something I found by accident a long time ago. Their crystal is as clear as premium c3 or h-factory, and it's just the right thickness for honpo or EL automatics with a cyclops. Glossy/semiglossy lume is a consistent detail, I find that many older pams with hobnail or otherwise textured dial had a slight sheen to their markers. It's not something that jumps out at you but it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Thanks mate With that lume I will need to study those gen pics now I seem to recall previous discussion from yourself and others on fitting crystals to Honpo autos ... not sure if ELs were mentioned though... I have seen plenty of discussion on the quality of his manual crystals but never, that I recall, about his auto crystal... When you say Cheifs cyclops do you just mean AR using MT cyclops or one he actually supplied and ARd which you then fitted to the MT crystal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 The crystal MT sells for manual winds for around $40 is the one for the job. It's not correct thickness-wise for any premium manual model case that takes OEM size crystal, but for old school autos it's perfect. I tried it on EL B100/500, B400/500 and Honpo lower serial cases successfully. The chief cyclops is the 2nd gen 6mm with A/R but A/R was stripped. It's not necessary for B & C year watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yangui Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Does the BigCrown C3 crystal would be ok with a chief cyclop, heightwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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