longshot Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Dammit you guys just stop it! My LV came Wed night and probably got damaged in shipping and will not run I know Neil will take care if it but it's sooooooooooooo frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial2k Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 This whole thread is reminding me of the running joke "post a picture of a gen and call it a rep and somebody will pick it apart with all its 'faults'. " I think its funny that some members claim they can spot a .1mm difference in a rehaut on someones wrist and tell its a fake, but the same members say "you can't tell from those blown-up pics because the angle and lighting are not exactly right" Not bashing anyone here, I know that you THINK you are seeing something, but I wonder how many of those watches you've called out as a fake are really gen? There is a story we learn in psychology 101 that explains all of this. You can look through a window that has a hairline crack in it for years and never notice the crack. Then, one day you notice it. From that day on you can't look out the window without seeing the crack. Then you start to obsess about the crack. Then you can't look out the window....you only see the crack....Eventually you get to the point that every window you look out you are trying to see the cracks....and somehow you find them whether they are there or not, whether it is just a spider web, or something on the other side of the glass you don't really see because you are no longer looking through glass but looking at it and the background is now a part of the glass. I'm not saying any of you have degressed into the full psycosis of the background being the glass....but you might want to consider carefully what you are saying when you can claim to spot a fake rehaut from a great distance but magnified pictures make it somehow harder to spot. We have spent so much time trying to find fault in reps we forget that gens are not all EXACTLY the same. I can show you 15 gens and at least 5 of them will have a different looking bezel pearls, and that is just ONE example of many differences you can find when comparing gens. Most ADs will not spot a good fake unless you go in and ask them to authenticate it. Then they will quickly start finding the faults. But if you present it to them for any other reason they are just like any other guy on the street. They are not obsessing with every minor detail like we are. Someone who is into reps is far more likely to spot a fake than someone who is into gens in my experience. No offense meant to anyone, but like some people have said here, enjoy the hobby and the fun of searching for perfection, but don't let it make you crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 belial2k - Hilarious analogy although not quite so appropos. Replica watches are a hobby, and different people have varying degrees of interest in their hobbies. Now when you're talking about hobbies that involve building things, the conscientious person tends to take alot of pride in their work and therefore pays close attention to details. For example, I build furniture as a hobby. I have a garage full of woodworking machinery. And through clubs and forums I've come to know many others in the hobby. We all do the same thing when presenting a newly finished piece to other hobbyists - We direct them to overlook all of our mistakes. Yet invariably everyone else just sees a great piece of furniture that was the product of many hours of hard work. There is no perfect piece of handmade furniture and there is no perfect replica of a submariner. Many replica watch enthusiasts merely enjoy wearing pieces they obtain without much thought. But as a hobby, some of us enjoy building a "better" watch. So maybe, just maybe, it is those people who have a better eye for detail. It would seem to make sense. But certainly those people take pride in what they build. So to be fair, let's not put words in people's mouths. Nobody has said 0.1mm can been seen from a distance. It has been said that the CN sub rehaut is noticeable from a distance, and the 0.1mm figure was previously pulled out of thin air. Secondly, nobody said it is harder to detect rehaut in magnified images. It has been said that when comparing two different pictures taken at different angles, under different conditions, at different magnifications the comparison can be deceiving. And objectively speaking that is true. And now back to our regularly scheduled program.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Some details, inaccuracies, etc. simply bother some people more than others. I wouldn't say that I'm crazy over these things, but to me some details are more important to have correct from the start than others. When it involves issues with the hard parts (i.e. the case), and when it revolves around there being too little material than too much to start with, then yes... That is a detail that matters to me because it's not very easy to add metal where it simply is not to begin with. So... I do what I can to start with the best case that fits my needs and requirements. Can someone spot that my rehaut is deeper or shallower than others from 5 feet away? [censored] if I know... But, it's a detail that I look at, so I want it right. But... Perhaps I'm not a good example of rep mentality, and 'crazy' is a relative term to the person contemplating the situation. As someone who has spent 1/3 the cost of a genuine Daytona building my own (simply because I wasn't satisfied with the rep offerings available), I could be crazy in my own right. Other members might think I'm crazy.... But, people are allowed to form their own decisions, as I do what I want for me P.S. I suspect that my wife thinks I'm crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 You see...that's your first big mistake....also why you just don't understand women.......your wife doesn't think you are crazy.......she knows you're crazy....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Hmmm... You may be right Neil. My wife once told me that I might be possibly crazy. That was when I asked her opinion on if I should take off .000001mm more on the CG's I was filing... She looked at it closely and said 'I think you're flipping nuts! .000001mm is way too much' and that I needed .0000001mm instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 crazy of course,but i like it I´m too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial2k Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 chieftang wrote "It is immediately noticeable on the wrist from a distance" and also "Further, pictures (unless the rep and the gen are in the same shot) can be very deceiving because of variances in shooting angles, crop factors, lighting, shadows, etc." It just seems to me if these factors can make it hard to determine in photo that has been blown up to the size of your monitor then the conditions "on the wrist from a distance" when the watch is moving, is not in the best lighting, not held at steady angle, may be partially obscured by a sleeve, could be reflecting light or shadow from a number of sources, ect ....would make such a small difference (the largest I've heard is .2mm) impossible to see. That is like claiming "I can't see dust on the crystal in the close-up, but I can see it on someones wrist from a distance"..... I just had to back up that I didn't put words in anyones mouths, but I think most people got I was metaphorical with the "crazy" comment. As in "don't let it drive you crazy!" As was pointed out we are all looking for perfection and we all have our own pet peeves. I was a singer in a previous life and no matter how many takes we did or how we mixed it I never could get it to sound "right" to me, and I drove everyone else crazy trying to get it perfect. So trust me....I know where you are coming from, I just had to throw my two cents into this long thread since I hardly ever post over here in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Great review By-tor, As for the watch, its great value at 100 bucks... hell its cheaper than a vintage insert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Ooops... Sorry By-Tor for taking your thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 crazy of course,but i like it I´m too Here here! To us crazies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Ooops... Sorry By-Tor for taking your thread Why sorry? Keep the comments coming, this is all good discussion. I wish all my reviews sparked so much interest. I try to point out the inaccuracies for the members because they're so important to some. Personally, I almost find the small flaws and inaccuracies fascinating... rather than annoying. Of course it's nice to get better and more accurate replicas... but for me the it's not the issue whether "someone would call me out or not"... I just get a kick out of it (often with the other members). It's part of the fun in this hobby. To be honest I'm not very anal about the flaws on my replicas... hell my favourite replica is the hybrid Speedmaster BA. It's a great looking watch and it's one of the few watches I own that actually do receive positive comments. Everyone looks at it on awe when they see the quality feel and transparent glass back showing the movement. I haven't met even one single person who would question its authenticity. I would actually LOVE to meet such person... and discuss all the painstaking details on the Broad Arrow. But that haven't even crossed anyone's mind. I wonder if people seriously think that they'll meet someone who points out to your watch and says "Gee... your Speedmaster must be a fake, there's no datewheel". What do you think the odds are? 1 in 14 million? Unfortunately people don't (generally) pay much attention to watches. I buy the watches for my personal enjoyement. I could wear a complete fantasy watch if it looked great and possessed a quality feel. I understand that people are more anal about Rolex because everyone thinks they're all fakes. Even us. If you buy the gen because you don't have to worry about "getting called out" you'll probably notice that nobody will give a shit about some ridiculous microscopic details anyway. Eunomians was wearing his expensive vintage Rolex in a hockey (or football game) and some other spectator said "Your Rolex is a fake, it has a plastic glass". I've been lurking in the gen forums and I know they'd spot this watch as a fake. But even the gen forums HAVE ONLY A FEW guys who could do it from the bloated, zoomed pictures... and I suspect these same people are lurking here and are closet rep buyers (or at least they follow closely what's happening). Some braindead turkey posted pics of his 4th Gen PO six months ago to a gen forum and there was only one guy who spotted it... the rest of the guys couldn't believe it was a rep. I'm 99% sure the guy who burnt him reads this forum. When I look at the old Sub that was "the best" 18 months ago (picture in the review) I must say it looks like a toy watch compared to the Noobmariner (when it comes to visual accuracy). And even that was already very good. The way reps have improved during the last 12 months alone is amazing. Sometimes I wonder if people have even realized that. PS Randy: I completely understand your passion to get more accurate watch and build it yourself. You're doing it for your enjoyement... to please YOURSELF mainly. That's what the watch collecting (or any hobby) should be all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 BT- Couldn't have said it better My hat's off to you, kind sir! Cheers, Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 PS Randy: I completely understand your passion to get more accurate watch and build it yourself. You're doing it for your enjoyement... to please YOURSELF mainly. And Me... TT <-- Who can't seem to remove his new MBW that arrived today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Here's a new wristshot for ya... with the new pearl. Can't really tell the difference to the genuine when it's on the wrist. Very small mod but quite big improvement in overall appearance, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 (edited) Looks like a awsome watch for a really amazing price. Nice shot Tor. It's my birthday in 20 days so hopefully if there are some still in stock i'll be able to purchase one with my birthday money. Ooo... i cant wait. Edited October 14, 2006 by Ozzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 PS Randy: I completely understand your passion to get more accurate watch and build it yourself. You're doing it for your enjoyement... to please YOURSELF mainly. That's what the watch collecting (or any hobby) should be all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Here's a new wristshot for ya... with the new pearl. Can't really tell the difference to the genuine when it's on the wrist. Very small mod but quite big improvement in overall appearance, imho. Thank you By Tor for putting forward a balanced and commonsensical approach on your reviews. The watch looks and feels sensational and with minimal modding you just can't tell... I, for one, belong to the OCD department and I happily live with less than 100% accurate reps...that is 100% of the replicas...because they are replicas! I see Chief's point about the rehaut and crystal height and the difference in appearance that this imparts (IMHO this is more noticeable in the 16600 -crystal height?-). I think the little details are greatly magnified in the eyes of the ones who know them and are constantly looking for them...they are not an issue to the 99.99% of the people we encounter (either becasue they don't care much about watches or becasue they are not OCD watch nuts) One exception to the rule IMHO applies to Maister Randy...the man loves and builds timepieces that are in a different category of their own and it is always a pleasure to peruse his collection. I have a love hate relationship with Rolex....we all have our reasons and I side with Bill a 100% on this one...however, the Submariner is a timeless classic...(especially the vintage models)...for many reasons...and most of them horological....The sad part is due to Uncle Rollie policies, price gauging, saturation marketing bombing,etc...the sub has become a 'luxury item'...where in actuality the Sub started off as a 'tool watch' ... (Nanuq carries that legacy with pride ) If I ever buy a Sub again...I'll get a used gen...or a modded TTK noobmariner for 1/50th of the price?!!! My 0.02 Cheers Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Whoa! My 16610 arrived! Just as I was emailing to Neil about 075, 074 dropped through the door! Thanks Neil, well worth the wait, I must be more patient in future I've sized the bracelet and oiled it a little seems very good, I'm a happy noob with a noobmariner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 May i ask how long delivery was for you? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 PS Randy: I completely understand your passion to get more accurate watch and build it yourself. You're doing it for your enjoyement... to please YOURSELF mainly. That's what the watch collecting (or any hobby) should be all about. @ By-tor, thats the point also for me... Yes... It's the point I've been trying to make for several posts now. I think it is sinking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Members of the Modded Crown Club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 I finaly gave up and sized my LV. So far it has not stopped in 3 hours. I'm hoping maybe it just needs to be worn a bit and run in? It could probably use a polish and bracelet oiling but with just a quick scrub with dish soap and water and an old toothbrush it looks damn good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbig Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 How to make deep rehaut? Please take a look for a crown. Crown position on every pict. is another, third pict is a gen. First pic. is a perfect sub from Paul. last one is a ubiquitous sub, best one, after a gen of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 szumi, Thank you for the kind words I think I got lucky with my case... The crown position on the profile does indeed explain why some Subs have a deeper rehaut than others. If you notice, on mine, I think the only reason why the crown is in the right position is because of how thick the bezel is, which allows for a deep rehaut while allowing the crown to sit higher on the profile. Interesting stuff. I'd really like to know exactly where my Sub originated from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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