nwolf1716 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am looking at the 3717 and the 3714 but am unsure of which one i should buy here are the links to the ones i am contemplating. http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=110&P_id=557&ti= http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=112&P_id=1258&ti= and possibly a portofino http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=111&P_id=574&ti= thanks for the help also is this a good a site to buy these watches from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 or any good watches that have white dials this one http://www.yourtrustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_210&products_id=6376&zenid=2ba6969971ba840871e82f3e038c4ee7 OR: (not sure about this one, does not look very good but could just the pics) http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=110&P_id=565&ti= or even this blue dial http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=110&P_id=566&ti= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concepta Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hey! Neither of these models are any good compared to the gen. I would go for the standard black (-01) Can´t go wrong with that! Good luck or any good watches that have white dials this one http://www.yourtrustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_210&products_id=6376&zenid=2ba6969971ba840871e82f3e038c4ee7 OR: (not sure about this one, does not look very good but could just the pics) http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=110&P_id=565&ti= or even this blue dial http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=110&P_id=566&ti= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Ditto the 01 is the better one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Would that be a good place to buy it and good price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 what kind of mods would i have to do for the 3717-01 or could it be worn right out of the box? and in your opinion is it better than this: http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=182&P_id=2067&ti= is there any other iwc watches you would recommend? or a decent white dial watch? thank you so much for your help Hey! Neither of these models are any good compared to the gen. I would go for the standard black (-01) Can´t go wrong with that! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) what kind of mods would i have to do for the 3717-01 or could it be worn right out of the box? and in your opinion is it better than this: http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=182&P_id=2067&ti= is there any other iwc watches you would recommend? or a decent white dial watch? thank you so much for your help The current model (v3) can be worn out of the box. The nice thing about the 3717 is that you can do several easy mods and have a piece that's 95% perfect, or can spend a bit more and have it be essentially 'gen' because a couple members here have access to a lot of gen parts. Here's my saga of modding my 3717. You could just hurry and buy this one and have a bunch of the common mods already done: For a white dial watch, I love my Ebel 1911 Discovery, but they are not made any more. Others that look great ... VC Overseas, vintage seconds at 9 Daytonas, old school noob factory Explorer II's (modded with gen dial). Edited August 25, 2011 by tomhorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texski Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ditto Tom. There are issues with the 3714 movement that require more money. The movement in the 3717 is more reliable straight from the dealer. You will spend a little bit more to get the 3717 to face like an IWC (day/date wheels), but you won't need to spend money on the movement. You might want to look at the 3717 Spitfire ... a silver/white dial. It seems to me to be more formal than the Classic Pilot. IWC dial is incredible for the Spitfire. Search IW371702. If you order a 3717, get the metal bracelet. A rep leather strap is useless, and you can get these aftermarket. It is more difficult to get the bracelet separately, though. Tony's website is slow to load, but I like the Portofino. The white dial that IWC has for this is impressive, rep not so good. The movement is the same as the 3717 (can't see the picture, assuming a chrono). I have been threatening to build one of these. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 would the movement on the IW545408 die as well because the seconds are at the 6 or is it just just with the 3714's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Any rep chrono with seconds at 6 is going to be a ticking time-bomb out of the box. It's not an IWC specific thing, it's the movement. There are some things that can be done to help it (like the graphite treatment) but if you truly want a Porto, the only thing to do IMO is get a gen movement from concepta. Edited August 25, 2011 by tomhorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 So if the watch was not a chrono it would be fine if it had the seconds at the 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Assuming it's using a 6498 movement, yes. If it's using the modified 7750, then still no. For example, this Porto, would be good. http://www.yourtrustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_189&products_id=3939 Edited August 25, 2011 by tomhorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ok thank you very much for your help! Is that watch you pointed out any good? Or is it to cheap to be any good. Or would it just need a good strap to be a good watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texski Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Any rep chrono with seconds at 6 is going to be a ticking time-bomb out of the box. It's not an IWC specific thing, it's the movement. There are some things that can be done to help it (like the graphite treatment) but if you truly want a Porto, the only thing to do IMO is get a gen movement from concepta. Tom, I have posted extensively about this movement here Advice on buying a portuguese or something simlar. It was a heated debate, but if you can sort through it, it will be worth the read. In this post, I tried to clear up some misconceptions about this movement. The short of it is that, if properly serviced, the modified A7750 sec @ 6 can be a workable solution. This movement has earned a bad reputation, and rightfully so. Francisco did his review on 2/13/09, nearly 2 1/2 years ago, the movement did not have the advertised improvements. A Close Inspection to the new IWC Portuguese Movement Graphite or special coating of the plates was the only solution. As you may know, graphite is ground particles and lubricates as it is crushed further. These smaller particles contaminate the movement and require more frequent service. If you have one of these older movements, I would suggest you replace this with the latest version, instead of using graphite. In the lastest movements, they have added extra jewels for the geartrain in this complication, and that can significantly reduce friction and improve functionality. However, they must be serviced properly. G actually epoxies the pivots, since they are press fit, and makes sure all the parts are aligned correctly. With proper lubrication, these movements have been showing some promising results. Here is G's review of the latest movement The "New and Improved" Seconds-at-6 Movement Explained For those who won't take the time to read these articles, I want to be clear about something. A movement with IWC (or Rolex, or ETA ...) is not a guaranteed solution. If the movement was not built or lubricated properly, or cased to protect it from contamination, it will not last. Just having one of these movements does not ensure reliability. IWC uses special oils and tuning procedures on these 79350's before they are put in a watch. Some of these 3714's that have come to me are not properly sealed (even worse than the factory), and the movements have not been properly lubricated and are experiencing difficulties. I am not looking to ruffle feathers, but with current information, I want to add some balance to what is being said about these movements. Also know that financially, I am better off machining a 3714 case and swapping the movement than I am providing a serviced movement. There is much more time and labor in a 79350 swap. Hope this helps, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Mike ... I have no doubt that the newer seconds at six movements are a bit better, but even you are admitting that they still need a proper service to have any hope that they will be a reliable situation long term. In fact G says the following ... "Of course friction is just one small part of the equation. As mentioned above, there is still the matter of getting the gear heights adjusted precisely and taking steps to prevent pivot separation. The newer movement is no different from the old in these areas, and it requires skill and precision to get everything just right." The extra gears are always going to be a problem ... just maybe less so with the new movement. Based on his post count, I would assume nwolf is a relative newcomer to the world of high quality reps. Personally, I think he'd be much better off getting started with a 3717 which has a very reliable and easy to work on standard 7750 movement rather than having to go through the headaches of trying to find someone to properly service a seconds at 6 version. Not that at some point a service would be beneficial to the A7750 too, but there's just less hassle getting it done when the time comes. Also, the 3717 has many easy to do (and relatively inexpensive) mods with many more posts about the process, so it's an ideal watch to get started with if he wants to play around with modding. Of course if money was no object and he really wanted the Porto, then I'd recommend trying to find one of concepta's frankens on the sales board. It really is the best alternative. It's also about 5x the price. Edited August 25, 2011 by tomhorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 SO WOULD THIS WATCH BE ANY GOOD OR WOULD IT BE LOUD WITH THE OPEN BACK AND JUST CHEESY, ITS A LOT CHEAPER THAN THE 3714. I DONT WANT A WATCH THAT FEELS AND LOOKS CHEAP BUT THIS ONE LOOKS NICE IN THE PICTURES, JUST THOUGHT I WOULD GET SOME OPINIONS! http://puretimewatch.com/product/portuguese-vintage-ss-blacksilver-dial-on-black-leather-strap/ OR: http://puretimewatch.com/product/portuguese-vintage-ss-whitegold-dial-on-black-leather-strap/ THANKS AGAIN GUYS FOR ALL THE HELP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texski Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 nwolf, It looks like your caplock was on when you typed this. When I see this, I think people are yelling, and that would be rude. Tom makes a good point, the Asian UNITAS-6498 has a good track record. The thing I don't like is that the quality of these watches tend to be on the lower side. They have mineral crystals (easier to scratch) instead of sapphires. A more expensive rep will run $250 and up. These are half the price. In some cases, the factory will use the lower quality parts in these and quartz watches. This is a good introduction to reps. As I mentioned before, the 3717 or 3783 Portofino should be a safe buy. These watches have an Asian 7750 movement, and these have a good reputation. I would suggest that you talk to Lay at ReplicaMake88.com because of his QC. He puts the watch on an analyzer and videos it. This can identify some problems in the movement, and he is not going to send one out if it tests out of range. If you purchase the 3714, I recommend that you have it properly serviced. G (mentioned above) and Rolexman (EU) are 2 people that I trust to do these. I am sure that there are others. But again, this movement straight from the factory has mixed reviews, and there has been many have complaints about failures. @Tom The part that you have quoted refers to the mechanics of the geartrain, how it is laid out, how it transfers power from the 9 position to the 6, and that has not changed. Additional gears require additional energy, but I don't see geartrain layot as the main cause of failure. What has changed is the way this movement handles the additional power drain by reducing friction. In the older movements, the gear pivots for this complication were located in steel, and this creates more friction (higher CoF). One of the ways they reduced friction was to locate these pivots in a jewel (colored saphire). For this movement, the issues that caused the high failure rate are more quality related, not mechanical (geartrain configuration). The older movements had 1) gear pivots in steel, not jewels, 2) improper lubrication (many times none, sometimes too much), 3) contamination ... trash in the movement, 4) poorly designed parts. The new style movement has added jewels in this complication, but that is not enough to address the other shortfalls. This is where proper servicing will improve the functionality and reliability of this movement. G addressed the poor quality parts issue by epoxy-ing the press fit pivots. Will it be as robust as a cal 79350, NO. But it can be an economical alternative to a 79350. I think I posted some numbers in the RG thread showing that for the same money, the A7750 sec @ 6 would provide about 68 months of service to the 79350's 48 months. Assumptions were made, please refer to that thread. It seems like the conventional advice about the 3714 has been either "It's a timebomb ... forget it", or "replace the movement with an IWC cal 79350." With the latest information, we have another viable choice, have the movement properly serviced. Yes, it will add more to the cost, but it does provide another option for this beautiful watch. And finally, if money were no object, he should look at one of my 3714's. 100's 01/01 Although this watch will never come up for sale! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Sorry the caps lock was on, i was not yelling, i promise!! So i think i have decided to go with the 3717, it just seems like a high quality rep that i could add mods to if needed but not required. I was thinking of buying it from Lay: would this one do the trick? http://www.replicamake88.com/products/IWC07001-IWC-PILOT-CHRONO-LEATHER-ASIAN-7750-28800BPH-BLACK.html Thanks! nwolf, It looks like your caplock was on when you typed this. When I see this, I think people are yelling, and that would be rude. Tom makes a good point, the Asian UNITAS-6498 has a good track record. The thing I don't like is that the quality of these watches tend to be on the lower side. They have mineral crystals (easier to scratch) instead of sapphires. A more expensive rep will run $250 and up. These are half the price. In some cases, the factory will use the lower quality parts in these and quartz watches. This is a good introduction to reps. As I mentioned before, the 3717 or 3783 Portofino should be a safe buy. These watches have an Asian 7750 movement, and these have a good reputation. I would suggest that you talk to Lay at ReplicaMake88.com because of his QC. He puts the watch on an analyzer and videos it. This can identify some problems in the movement, and he is not going to send one out if it tests out of range. If you purchase the 3714, I recommend that you have it properly serviced. G (mentioned above) and Rolexman (EU) are 2 people that I trust to do these. I am sure that there are others. But again, this movement straight from the factory has mixed reviews, and there has been many have complaints about failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texski Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I would suggest the one with the metal bracelet 3717 Classic Pilot w/ Bracelet As I mentioned before, the rep strap is crap. You will want to replace it, so you are spending this money regardless. For the extra $20, you can have a metal bracelet, which is a nice option. If you decide to add this later, you can expect to pay $40 + shipping. If you decide not to use it, you should be able to sell it easily ... to people who made the same mistake If you decide to sell this watch, it is a nice option. It wasn't so long ago that these watches sold for $250+. This is a great deal. Keep us posted, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwolf1716 Posted August 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) so I am pretty sure I have narrowed the choice down to 3 watches: IW3717-01: http://www.replicamake88.com/products/IWC07002-IWC-PILOT-CHRONO-SS-ASIAN-7750-28800BPH-BLACK.html IW3789-01: http://www.kingshowbox.com/goods.php?id=6409 PAM 288K: http://www.asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=182&P_id=2067&ti= Please let me know what you guys think and if I can find any of these at a cheaper price! Thanks, Nick I had also considered the Ebel 1911 Discovery Chrono as well. Edited August 27, 2011 by nwolf1716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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