hambone Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 It has been some time since I purchased another Pam rep, and as I own the 5218/203A, it seemed redundant. Not so. This watch is every bit as well made and gorgeous as it claims to be. The DLC/PVD finish has a pearly gleam to it, the raised, superblu lumed dial gives it a historic authenticity, that the Paneristi were seeking to pay homage to the gentlemen whose passing prompted the creation of this watch in his honor. A little more about that... The back story of this watch is that it was created and designed with input from the Paneristi.com forum moderators and other Panerai collectors/enthusiasts. The other part of the story is that this watch was created in memory of a Paneristi.com community member who passed away and went by the moniker WWBBQD or simply "BBQ." When the 360 was announced, it was decided to nickname the 360 in memory of this departed and honored paneristi.com community member hence the nickname BBQ is synonymous with the 360. RIP BBQ.... What makes this watch controversial and near impossible to find anywhere is the method by which this watch was distributed/sold. THIS WATCH WAS NOT SOLD IN RETAIL STORES OR THROUGH AUTHORIZED PANERAI DEALERS. In order to get this watch, you had to be CHOSEN to receive this watch. The official process was to submit your name in a random lottery and be specially chosen to receive this watch. Although no one in the Panerai collectors community was surprised over who actually was 'chosen' to receive this watch. In any case, according to Panerai, Over 2500 people entered this lottery and only 300 people received this watch!!!! BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!!!! What really fuels the fire and makes this watch such a powderkeg waiting for a match to blow this thing up is that the Paneristi.com watch trading forum prohibited the advertising or resale of this watch on their watch trading forum citing that resale of this watch at a profit would somehow besmirch the memory of BBQ. SO NOW YOU'VE GOT THE WHOLE STORY AND KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS WATCH TO BE DANGEROUS (and have an opinion)!!!! As far as I know, this is among the first BBQ PAM360's to be posted publicly for sale - For whatever that is worth......I am certain all of the Panerai forums will be buzzing with this news tomorrow along with rampant speculation of who the original owner/recipient of this BBQ 360 really is. Here is a photo of the gen. The rest are my new 360 in a gator strap. ] Of all the Pam reps I have owned, this is by far the most authentic in appearance, detail, lume, craftsmanship, and asthetics. Truly a beautiful, and accurate timepiece. Good work Andrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgenk Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Whoah, the backstory is interesting but that backside picture sends some interesting messages. Not your artwork I take it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Tidy watch looks great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxman Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 hambone, is this the V1 or V2. Pardon my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomic_doug Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The 360 is a beautiful watch, to be sure and the rep is quite good...except for the hands. The gen uses the pre-V style hands where the lume-strip extends into the triangle. It's an easy fix, DSN sells them. More important, though, is the pencil-lead shade of the PVD coating, which I believe they've got right. It's an excellent rep, overall. BBQ, by the way, was Bob Quapaw, who was one of the earliest and most influential members of the Paneristi community. He died in '09. The 360 also precipitated a huge series of flame wars on Paneristi because the distribution wasn't truly as random as members were led to believe. The more influential members were guaranteed theirs and many old-time members figured they were in this "inner circle" and were humiliated when it turned out that they weren't. Several long-term members left because of this, or left because of the subsequent bickering. Panerai haven't confirmed it, but the Paneristi suspect that not all 300 pieces have been distributed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Of course there are still several flaws with the dial that give the reps away on the wrist but the biggest one for me and I guess many others is still the indices issue on these reps which will never be solved given the material and manufacturing process of the rep factories... afterall just look at the PreV PreA reps even FGDs never managed to achieve this.... The indices on the gen a deep like the Pre A and PreV dials admittedly the gen pics generally dont show this clearly but if you have seen the gen you will know what I mean... I do have some gen pics if anyone wants to see what I mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Here some good pics of the gen dial to highlight the milled indices.. see how the lume sits in the milled indices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxman Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Interesting Pete, I never realized that's how the lume sat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Incredible, I see exactly what you mean.. Good eye, as usual.. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 The day that a 1/1 is made, may or may not occur, but you have to admit they are getting better all the time. It takes a trained eye like the perceptive members here. I'm enjoying it very much, and as Atom Doug points out, the finish is spot on. My first photo in my post is a gen, and had Pete not pointed out the flawas, I would not have noticed. Sharp peepers Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 hambone, is this the V1 or V2. Pardon my ignorance. This is the V2. Nothing at all wrong with your question. The king of asking questions was Einstein, so you are in good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Very nice piece. The case color looks fantastic. And for those who didn't know the 360 is another Panerai homage piece. It is a homage to the 195 which was the original Risti designed piece with the first run actually engraved with the owner's name. And although I am sure everyone wanted a 360 for their love of Panerai I suspect no one minded the fact that they would triple or quadruple in value the minute you owned them as is what happened with the 195. And of course people are already selectively selling them. I think there is even one on ebay as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 The day that a 1/1 is made, may or may not occur............... Sooner than you think Also I dont think its a keen eye that would spot this... if you saw the gen then you would spot the rep as the pics of the gens really dont show what the eye would see... the milling is really obvious... so is the type face colour which is probably more obvious... As a comparison some of you may recall the 36 dial that DSN used to do... if you recall that almost boat like surround on the indices.. Sorry I am really not trying to criticise your watch mate or these reps.... I think these are great OTB reps and super value.... but I think the dial and case finish are pretty easy tells for most Ristis BUT having said that there arent that many of the most so in those terms its not a biggie Wear it well and enjoy mate... I hope you dont think any of my comments are directed at you mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomic_doug Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Even the Paneristi wouldn't spot it 99% of the time unless they personally had the model on them and could compare. Without a point of reference, it's incredibly difficult to tell unless they're super-nitpicky...and if they know ahead of time it's a rep, then they'll be on the lookout, even going so far as to spot flaws that aren't there. (And what are the odds of running into one of the 300 people on this earth who have one of these watches on the day that they're wearing them?) The same goes doubly for the Pre-V models. They are so rare and they were all hand-made that the variance between them is absurd. Fat numbers, skinny numbers, varying degrees of patination, some dials were shipped without having been varnished, some movements were left unfinished. They used three different companies to PVD their cases so there's tremendous variance there too, from pencil-gray to glossy black. Get past the obvious tells and you've got a pretty convincing piece. I'm sure we all have stories of someone being fascinated by one of our watches, thinking it's a gen and all you can see is the glaring flaws. "Oh geez, I hope they don't notice that the crown spacing is totally off and that the crystal is sitting too high above the bezel." Edited December 15, 2011 by atomic_doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 There is no disagreement from me generally indeed I have said it many times before even in my last post but .. PreV rep dials issues are beyond the flaws or anomalies you mention with the gen... the PVD finishes vary only on models and series so the differing factories means little to model details.. I could go on but the main reason these issues need to be raised isnt to belittle any OTB reps nor to make any one feel like they have a duff rep... its to push the boundaries... If it wasnt for us as members on these forums raising these details and more people being made aware of them then the factories wouldnt push harder to meet those changes... if you go back to OTB reps over the last few years then I am sure no one could disagree that these boundaries have been pushed but will only continue to be pushed if such discussions are had here and elsewhere.. Just look at the increase in versions over short periods of time... that alone was unheard of 12 months ago.. let alone the model improvements themselves.... that is only the case because more people are making those comments known and putting thier money on them which of course is the real driver.... so the more the majority of us know and in turn ask the dealers (Does this model have this? Or is it the one with the shallow dish crown? etc etc) then in turn the dealers will feedback and the more the factories will change and improve so they can get our hard earned dosh... I have never wanted to fool anybody that I was wearing a gen.... though I must admit my gens have been 'called out' more than my reps...but again thats not what drives me or I am sure most regular members on here.... I will get off my soapbox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have to agree with Pete's viewpoint that all the so called 'nitpicking' has been of much benefit to all of us as it has urged the factories to create a better rep. Personally, I welcome pointers on perfection. As Atomic Doug points out, correctly so, 99% of Risti's would not notice, nor would anyone else wearing a gen Pam, who I have had many an encounter. Striving for perfection at a great price is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flim Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 If it wasnt for us as members on these forums raising these details and more people being made aware of them then the factories wouldnt push harder to meet those changes... Totally agree with you, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellytots Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think being able to own such an accurate rep isn't meant to fool anyone, but rather to have the satisfaction that it's as close to the gen that we can achieve - and frankly it's no shame owning a rep of such an iconic piece - simply because such a gen piece may never be available to the 99% of real Pam fans like us. (null) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Other than the story, this appear to be a very clean and simple watch. So you're now the 361st person to own one Wear it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) This is the V2. Nothing at all wrong with your question. The king of asking questions was Einstein, so you are in good company. I believe you purchased a V1 mate, not a V2. I like the V1 better btw, have one incoming ;-) The main differences on the V1 and V2 are the lume and DLC colour, matte lever pin (V2), raised (V1)/recessed (V2) cannion pin. Edited December 27, 2011 by DMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischyyy Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Personally, I welcome pointers on perfection. As Atomic Doug points out, correctly so, 99% of Risti's would not notice, nor would anyone else wearing a gen Pam, who I have had many an encounter. I have never seen someone wear a Pam, gen or rep . Must be an American thing, they seem not so popular in Germany. I wouldn't even know where to find a PAM dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I have never seen someone wear a Pam, gen or rep . Must be an American thing, they seem not so popular in Germany. I wouldn't even know where to find a PAM dealer. Must not get out much. Actually, when you get into this collecting thing you start to notice what other watches people are wearing. When it comes to Panerai, They average 7500.00 euro, so being around the affluent makes a difference. Here in Vegas, I have noticed more people from Europe, South America, UK and Mexico wearing Pam's. I am sure they are mostly gens, as they are sold all over this town. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poretl Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I was in Vegas not too long ago. As you said, they sell them everywhere. It's amazing all those watch stores. I remember in the Forum Shops at Caesar's there is a HUGE watch shop among many others. You can literally find everything. You name the brand, you name the model, thay have it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapsMoney Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 i love the 360 cuz i want a PVD black watch so bad but i see that this one isn't as accurately made so im gonna hold off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapsMoney Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 IS the V1 truly better then the V2 ? Can anyone else shed light-- Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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