1016 reference questions

[Serafino]

Can anyone post the following:

-a close up of the shape of the end of an original Rolex 1016 springbar. (I'm going to be grinding down some aftermarket submariner bars and want to get the shape right.)

-the max. height of an old-style dome Tropic 22 crystal.

I'll have another question later tonight once I've had a chance to get some photos sorted.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Serafino]

The additional question has to do with the profile of a vintage domed Tropic 22. Even making allowances for different angles and lighting it is hard to reconcile these 3 (supposed) examples--can they be the same shape? The first is from a French site, the second I believe was from VRF a few years ago, and the third TRF if I remember right.

Or to put the question another way--is the third photo here a solid representation of the correct shape?

[lhooq]

I haven't seen an original 1016 springbar (#23-9293), but I use the aftermarket ones from Australia. I'll try to get a picture up later.

Similarly, I've never seen a domed Tropic 22 up close, either. Every 1016 I've handled has either had a service crystal or a non-original dome.

Regarding the three photos you've shown... It's strange how cloudy it looks around the edge, but I think that may just be an odd angle on an otherwise correct crystal. Similarly, I'm having trouble reading #2 in isolation. #3 shows almost no vertical "shelf" beneath the dome. Maybe the crystal has been polished a lot, and the bezel could be pushed down a bit more?

[DeeKa]

I don't have a measuring tool at hand so I can't provide you height of the crystals, but as I have domed as well as flat variant I can do some pictures, may have them within some hrs...

BTW it cost me >$750 to get hold of 3 originals - 2 domed, 1 flat...

Dee

[lhooq]

Dee: I'll be very interested to see those photos, too. I remember when Mulholland was selling domed T22s for $250 two years ago. Maybe I should have bought one then.

Anyway, here's my Fasci "gen-spec 1016" springbar versus a Nam Hing "gen-spec 1680" bar:

During my Space-Dweller build, I saw a lot of variation in the crystal profiles of T22s. Here are the ones that I believe to be the most correct, and that I used as references:

[Justasgood]

Dee: I'll be very interested to see those photos, too. I remember when Mulholland was selling domed T22s for $250 two years ago. Maybe I should have bought one then.

Anyway, here's my Fasci "gen-spec 1016" springbar versus a Nam Hing "gen-spec 1680" bar:

During my Space-Dweller build, I saw a lot of variation in the crystal profiles of T22s. Here are the ones that I believe to be the most correct, and that I used as references:

What makes you an expert?

[lhooq]

What makes you an expert?

Oh, you know how it is, K. Someone reads a few pages on VRF, sees a few pictures on Maron's site... A few days later, he thinks he's the Explorer Know-It-All!

[Serafino]

Great stuff LH many thanks!

Dee--I'm looking forward to the photos. If you can take an exact side view from a long distance that would be particularly useful

[automatico]

LH knows 1016 crystals. His advice is spot on!

I made up a few franko 1016 and tried a few different crystal combos...genuine 25-22, GS PA 464-64C, GS PA 463-12A, no name generics etc.

What I've learned:

Genuine 25-22 'flat top' is Ok but costs too much.

Original domed 25-22 cost waaay too much and may be brittle from age.

GS PA 464-64A is nearly identical to 'flat top 22 for about $10US.

GS PA 463-12A is a 'short cut' crystal...slightly domed and iirc works with standard 1600/16000 etc bezel as it is not as thick on top or sides as a 25-22 iirc again. This might have been a replacement for the rolex 25-21 used on the old 1018. It's been a long time since I used one so the details are fuzzy on bezel fit.

Various no name aft/mkt = hit or miss, some good, some not so good.

'Flat top' 22 with edges rounded off are Ok but it thins them down quite a bit.

After you find what you like and if you plan to keep the watch, get a couple identical spares.

I use swiss made generic submariner springbars with the tips shortened and rounded off.

If the hoods/bracelet do not line up...sometimes you can curve the springbars slightly by laying them one at a time in a spoon and pressing a similar spoon down on top to make a gentle curve in the springbar.

You can also use a #55 drill instead of 1.3mm on the lugs for a hair more 'wiggle room' if the springbars are a tight fit.

[DeeKa]

OK, I made my pictures and...

... had to notice that looking at the pictures my 2 domed and 1 flat were instead 3 different shapes.

So after I bought 6 T22 in total where I could instantaneous spot 3 non matchings (costy, but with overseaes shipping not worth to claim) I only got 2 originals and 4 reps sold as originals. Don't ask from which sellers I got them, but they are well known in the high cost Rolex sales...

Here are the pictures to compare:

First one is one I got as "gen flat", so later makes, second I got as "gen domed" so the earl makes and third one I also got as "gen domed" but this is slightly more domed as the second.

So for me the second seems to be a rep T22 which from shape is exactly in between the gen flat and the gen domed one...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dee