sneed12 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Heck, in fact, here: This watch was built yesterday from a case purchased in the last six months. Look at the crystal edge. It comes straight down, there's no step to a smaller inner diameter under the edge the way a gen-spec Rolex crystal does, and there's definitely no lip. This watch: has a gen crystal in it, but you can see by looking at the edge of the rehaut that it's not a gen-style construction watch. You can see the white ring of the crystal gasket. The rep crystal that came with this watch had no groove around the edge, and it did not work very well with the stock rep crystal gasket. I made a new one by hand out of a gen style gasket. This watch: takes a gen-spec crystal and uses gen-style construction (retaining ring pushed down over a tall gasket). All of these builds were done in the last two months using watches purchased in the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I'm sure the gens probably all take the same sized crystal. OK. Show me one. No, of course not. I'm talking about the reps, which DO have the cyclops in different positions depending on which rep model you get. I've only assembled a couple of hundred Rolex reps, but please, enlighten me. Right. Like many reps. Like almost every Sub-C rep and GMT IIc rep that I have ever handled. Besides which, that's not the "step" I was talking about. One of the Sub-C reps had a gen-style crystal without this step (which is pretty standard, and what most of us call the "Noob" crystal). The other one had a crystal with absolutely straight sides and a slight bevel on top. That's... not true. Most will. Some rep crystals are simply larger than a gen-spec crystal, and so no amount of gasket will make it fit. I just installed a gen crystal with AR under the cyclops into a Sub-C case. It physically fits fine, but it required me to make a new gasket by hand. The other option is to install the rep gasket upside down--the standard rep gasket has the lip on the bottom (to keep the crystal from bottoming out against the top of the rehaut, since it's a press-in construction) and I've turned it the other way so that the lip fit into the step of the crystal. It works that way too.Uh... thanks for your permission? I'll go ahead and feel free to keep posting what I know. Sounds great. Try not to get too steamy about this stuff. We are also not communicating clearly enough for me to continue this. Here's my solution: I'll stick to what I know - which is genuine, 1:1 assembly type watches. You are the official authority on everything else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Sneed, we're still not communicating well. Let's clarify the 'beveled edge' of the crystal is what you see when installed and can be seen in your first photo. What I call the 'stepped edge' is what is on the underside and has contact with the gasket. You have posted photos of three pieces: GMT IIC (EDIT...oops it's a SubC...iPhone isn't the best for forum photos) SubC GMT Master II For starters, your GMT II crystal is not right. Not even close to correct shape. (so why do I need to answer for your watch which is not made correctly?). Willl a correct crystal fit with the right gasket? I am leaning towards yes based on what I have found. SubC: this watch proves my point exactly. It is a typical cheaper replica that takes a genuine crystal. GMT Master II: also takes a 1:1 or genuine crystal. ****** Do you see my point? All of your examples can except a genuine or 1:1 crystal. That is what I have been saying and THE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!! Troll on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 "Troll on", are you serious? The only one I see getting steamy over this is you, BigCrown. That is of course easy to explain as it's obvious to anyone that you're using every rep forum as your personal outlet mall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Sneed, we're still not communicating well. Let's clarify the 'beveled edge' of the crystal is what you see when installed and can be seen in your first photo. What I call the 'stepped edge' is what is on the underside and has contact with the gasket. OK. Then there's also the "groove" which a gen spec crystal has, and many reps don't. Sure, let's standardize on those terms. You have posted photos of three pieces: GMT IIC Actually, that's a Sub-C. You can tell by the fact that the first line of text on the dial (even if you can't read it) isn't green, and the lack of the three holes in the bezel ring that capture the rep GMT Master IIc spring that gives it the 24 clicks. Well, maybe you can't. I can. SubC GMT Master II For starters, your GMT II crystal is not right. Not even close to correct shape. I know that. That's why I went and found that pic. You said all reps can take a gen crystal. This is a pic of a rep that cannot. (so why do I need to answer for your watch which is not made correctly?). "Made correctly"? These are reps! Besides, the whole point of my posting was to answer this statement that you made: my theory is that most rep factories buy their crystals from a small number of factories and they are universal (for the most part). Clearly, the pictured crystal is not "universal" with anything else. And, to answer these questions: How old are they? ...and how much did they cost? It's less than a year old, and cost north of $200. You keep wanting to believe that "most" rep crystals will swap. I'm telling you, that's not true. Do you see my point? All of your examples can except a genuine or 1:1 crystal. Not all. 2 of 3. Of the two, the one in the Sub-C required extensive custom hand-fitting to fit to my satisfaction, and the other one in the GMT Master II was the result of a build using parts from 5 different watches collected over the course of a year specifically in order to be able to accept a gen-spec crystal, it did not from the factory. That is what I have been saying and THE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!! Troll on! Seriously? "Troll"? Now I know why the Zigmeister stopped posting so much. Feel free to believe what you like, I guess. It's clear from the pictures and updates that you posted that you understand the product you're building, and it's great that you're offering it. But I am telling you, from my experience assembling hundreds of Rolex reps, that NOT ALL OF THEM will take a genuine or gen-spec crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Just ordered... Are these coming with gaskets or is that a separate order kind of thing? This will be going in my Ginault which is an exact homage of the 16610. Almost bought a gen crystal but it was $300+! Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Just ordered... Are these coming with gaskets or is that a separate order kind of thing? This will be going in my Ginault which is an exact homage of the 16610. Almost bought a gen crystal but it was $300+! Thanks again They come with a 1:1 gasket as was mentioned above, some people may have to use the gasket that comes with their particular watch, or as Sneed mentioned - get creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 OK. Then there's also the "groove" which a gen spec crystal has, and many reps don't. Sure, let's standardize on those terms. Actually, that's a Sub-C. You can tell by the fact that the first line of text on the dial (even if you can't read it) isn't green, and the lack of the three holes in the bezel ring that capture the rep GMT Master IIc spring that gives it the 24 clicks. Well, maybe you can't. I can. I know that. That's why I went and found that pic. You said all reps can take a gen crystal. This is a pic of a rep that cannot. "Made correctly"? These are reps! Besides, the whole point of my posting was to answer this statement that you made: Clearly, the pictured crystal is not "universal" with anything else. And, to answer these questions: It's less than a year old, and cost north of $200. You keep wanting to believe that "most" rep crystals will swap. I'm telling you, that's not true. Not all. 2 of 3. Of the two, the one in the Sub-C required extensive custom hand-fitting to fit to my satisfaction, and the other one in the GMT Master II was the result of a build using parts from 5 different watches collected over the course of a year specifically in order to be able to accept a gen-spec crystal, it did not from the factory. Seriously? "Troll"? Now I know why the Zigmeister stopped posting so much. Feel free to believe what you like, I guess. It's clear from the pictures and updates that you posted that you understand the product you're building, and it's great that you're offering it. But I am telling you, from my experience assembling hundreds of Rolex reps, that NOT ALL OF THEM will take a genuine or gen-spec crystal. Okay - you win Your mention about why The Zigmeister doesn't post here is ironic. I believe you are doing this to my thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Your mention about why The Zigmeister doesn't post here is ironic. I believe you are doing this to my thread. Doing what, exactly? You're the one who thinks that posting factual information is the same as trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 As an impartial observer, Sneed, you are kind a persnickety a-hole to people. I'm sure that's just your personality and that you don't mean anything by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 It's all part of my charm. On a serious note, I dislike being told you may be out of your element when I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Gentlemen - Debate is good, but please leave the personal insults out of the conversation. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 OK- ignoring any mudslinging, it sounds clear that some reps cannot take a gen-spec crystal (call them incorrectly made if you like). Coming back to my original question - is there any way of telling whet their or not they will take the gen other than by trying? That would be an expensive experiment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Coming back to my original question - is there any way of telling whet their or not they will take the gen other than by trying? That would be an expensive experiment! Why do you think I have so many damn watches in pieces on my bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sneed is correct here. A good many Rollie reps still use the older 'rep' style crystals without the gasket groove. On these examples, the crystal itself simply presses into the rehaut/gasket and doesn't have any gasket groove (and the gasket is about the size of a rubber O-Ring and nothing like a gen spec Rollie gasket). Now it IS possible that some of these models *may* be able to take a gen spec crystal, but it wouldn't be correct and I'm not sure I'd trust it in water. Heck, this is one of the reasons why the Noob Exp 2, and the WM9 (and later TC, BK, ETASwiss, etc) were such a big deal when they came out, because having gen spec construction opened up all kinds of possibilities relative to building frankens. Of course, for popular models that use the old rep style crystals, I'd bet a custom gasket could be made to allow them to take a gen spec crystal, assuming the diameters are similar/the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Heck, this is one of the reasons why the Noob Exp 2, and the WM9 (and later TC, BK, ETASwiss, etc) were such a big deal when they came out, because having gen spec construction opened up all kinds of possibilities relative to building frankens. I'm absolutely no expert, but I must admit I thought that Rolex reps that could take gen parts were very much the exception rather than the rule, and the whole point of the high priced WM9s, BKs and TCs etc. was that they could take gen parts and that was what people are willing to pay big bucks for. I'm no modder, and were I to seriously consider buying one of these crystals then I would take it along to a local watchsmith and get them to fit it. I know several around where I live who are happy to work on reps, but they always add a health warning - I have to take responsibility in case they damage the watch due to mismatched parts or any flaws in its design or construction. So far, I haven't had any problems. It could be an expensive exercise, though, in taking a trial and error approach to fitting a gen spec crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hereis what Sneed was talking about - and I sincerely apologize for not understanding what he meant. PLease keep in mind the Explorer II's and some other cheep-o's are made from photos of the original watch - not anything original. This is a $140 watch...not 1:1. I will start and continually add to the list of watches that take genuine crystals here: BigCrownStore (I'll make the link work as soon as RG is finished with the servers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I will start and continually add to the list of watches that take genuine crystals here: That's a great idea. I'd suggest making two lists, watches that take gen crystal and watches that a gen crystal can be made to fit if you're creative. Also probably makes sense to limit the list to sapphire (since that's what you're making) unless you're just interested in creating a reference work. Off the top of my head Will take gen-spec sapphire crystal: Noob Explorer II WM9 and TC submariner (all models) WM9 and TC yachtmaster TW best submariner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I can feel the love in here !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watch4king Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'm interested too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TgfRulez Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 as soon as I will receive my crystal, I have a Sa3135 ym to try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCrown Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Hello all, I am very pleased to show the final prototype. Thanks to all that have provided input and opinions. I believe the investment of money, labor and time has paid off. We were able to match the crystal design and AR to match the genuine samples perfectly. I will let the photos do the talking. (SORRY FOR THE DUST) PRECISE APPLICATION OF THE CYCLOPS DIRECTLY OVER AR-ed 'WINDOW' THE AR 'WINDOW' UNDER THE CYCLOPS Pre-order and Timing: The factory says I will have them completed in two weeks, but based on experience with them, I would expect them in three. I will keep the pre-order open until then. So 2 maybe 3 weeks left to get your pre-orders in. After the pre-order is over, the final price of one crystal will be $120 plus shipping (pre-order price is $80 plus shipping). Nice savings for those with faith and patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtools Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Can you provide a pre-order link that doesn't go through repgeek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 any idea if this will fit something like a noobfactory GMTIIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watch4king Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Can you provide a pre-order link that doesn't go through repgeek? Same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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