Omega 42mm PO - resistance in manually winding

[vandal.tbh]

Hey everyone! Been really busy lately so I haven't been on the forum much recently. I owe you guys a review on the Tag AR 500 I bought, and that will be coming soon..

But I have a question on my Omega PO I hoped someone might be able to help me with. I've got the PO Ultimate with the Swiss ETA. I have the standard difficulty with the crown in that it doesn't want to screw in and out very smoothly, but so far the threads are still working so I assume they haven't stripped. I am planning on replacing the crown and tube as soon as things settle down a bit. But here's my question...

I do not keep the watch on a winder and I alternate between watches. So when I switch watches the new one will be stopped, so I wind it up manually and set the time the first time I put it back on.

But it seems like there is a lot more resistance now when I manually wind the PO with the crown than there used to be when I first got it. It still winds, there's just noticeably more resistance (and maybe an ever-so-slight metalic rubbing sound?) than there used to be and I wanted to know if that's something I should be concerned about. Is this a sign of impending doom? Should I just put it on and let it wind automatically vice winding it manually? Does it need a service?

On the service question: how much does a service on a rep cost (roughly speaking)? Is there anyone on the forum that still does services on movements (I heard The Zigmeister no longer takes new customers, is that true)? How do I find a watchsmith that will service a rep movement? Does anyone know someone in the states that they use that I could send a watch into them? If so, how much do they charge?

I know I'm spraying everyone with questions, but I'm still a newb with this and these are the questions I still have after searching through the forum. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

[Lovecraft]

It very much sounds like how my movement acted and sounded like. My movement ended up dying, but maybe you can fix yours somehow. I also did a lot of manual winding since I took it off during work and sleep, and the hours in between weren't enough to keep it going.

When I searched for tips the only advice I got was to get the movement serviced. I ended up ordering a Seagull for $70 from Ebay instead - new and serviced. Figured that was probably a better bet than sending my movement (that might be pre-used and in poor condition) to get a service for about the same cost.

[Jkay]

Servicing a 3-handed ETA movement should cost $100, plus or minus $20 .. depending on who does it. Each modder charges their own price.

[grejyedi]

I ve never wound a automatic i my life.

Just shake them gently and they should startt.

[Jkay]

I ve never wound a automatic i my life.

Just shake them gently and they should startt.

It entirely depends upon your day-to-day activity level. Some adults have jobs where they move very little. If you are that person and you do not hand-wind your automatic watch, it will never be wound enough to run properly.

[vandal.tbh]

It very much sounds like how my movement acted and sounded like. My movement ended up dying, but maybe you can fix yours somehow. I also did a lot of manual winding since I took it off during work and sleep, and the hours in between weren't enough to keep it going.

When I searched for tips the only advice I got was to get the movement serviced. I ended up ordering a Seagull for $70 from Ebay instead - new and serviced. Figured that was probably a better bet than sending my movement (that might be pre-used and in poor condition) to get a service for about the same cost.

$70? That's not bad! I'll probably just do that if mine dies. Maybe I'll just stop hand winding it so much. I do move around quite a bit throughout the day.

Thanks for the advice!

[Tom Hawkes]

If I am not mistaken there was a post by the Zigmeister that basically said that handwinding your automatic is one of the worst things you can do to it.

If one really needs to wind it every day, can't one take off the auto module on the 2836 as with the 2824 vs. 2801?

[vandal.tbh]

If I am not mistaken there was a post by the Zigmeister that basically said that handwinding your automatic is one of the worst things you can do to it.

If one really needs to wind it every day, can't one take off the auto module on the 2836 as with the 2824 vs. 2801?

Oops...I guess I'll stop doing that. Hope I didn't screw up my watch.

[Jkay]

The 7750 and 7753 are dangerous to hand wind due to the poor quality of their winding gear. That is true for the Swiss version as well.

Common Swiss and Asian three handed automatics should be hand wound to start them running and then worn to wind them further. I have not seen anything specificly stated about dangers for hand winding these in a responsible manner i.e. gently. The crown will never stop turning if you try and wind it fully because the spring in an automatic is made to slip if it is over wound. Hand wind movements should be fully wound and then worn. When the crown stops, you are done winding. The spring in a handwind does not slip. It stops.

[cougar1]

Yep, never had an issue winding up the non chrono eta 28xx movements, if it fails then it's just crap, nothing much can be done about that but they are fine to wind. The clutch is there for a reason. Not too gone on winding the 775X or a21j though, something feels not quite comfortable when winding them.

Vandal.tbh, I'm no watchmaker but the increased resistance shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you are getting significant increased resistance along with a really gritty grinding feel, sort of like a sensation like you are strangling a bag of cats . Now it could lack oil or mabye grit or dirt that was in the watch finally made it's way into the winding mechanism, common enough issue.

A few things to check. Does the watch start on it's own from stopped? For instance can you put it on the wrist stopped and it starts up then set time and leave it on? Does it stop somewhere while wearing? Also from a stopped position wind it up about 40 or 50 times and set time and leave it down again, how long does it last before stopping? Also check how well it's keeping time against a quartz, is it losing or gaining significant time over 24 hrs? If it passes all these with flying colours it is probably ok. It may loosen up a little with use again.

Some eta and clone eta feel better than others, it can be pretty random, some are buttery smooth, others feel like stiff like locking a WWII submarine hatch. If it's keeping good time and auto winding as well as manual winding don't worry too much about it. If the worst happens then they are pretty easy swap out. The Seagull ST2130 is cheap as chips and a straight swap out.

Let us know how it goes!

[Tom Hawkes]

The problem with handwinding 3 hand autos is not if there is a clutch or not, but the transmission of the gears when handwinding vs. winding by rotor. You are putting extreme stress on the teeth of the gears when winding it by hand.

AFAIK.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Tom Hawkes

[Lovecraft]

There's a real difference when I wind my ST2130 and my 2824.1(don't ask me why I got a .1 and not a .2) in my PO compared to my 2846 that's in my AT. The latter has almost no resistance and no sound but the other two are/were pretty hard to wind - with both the sound and resistance of one of those little wind up toys I had as a kid. I much prefer the feel of the 2846 when winding it.

As for the Seagull, I got it on an Ebay auction but I'm sure it's possible to get them cheaper. I have a friend in Macao and I thought I'd ask him and see if he could get a hold of a few, but he's out of the country for a month more or so.

[vandal.tbh]

Yep, never had an issue winding up the non chrono eta 28xx movements, if it fails then it's just crap, nothing much can be done about that but they are fine to wind. The clutch is there for a reason. Not too gone on winding the 775X or a21j though, something feels not quite comfortable when winding them.

Vandal.tbh, I'm no watchmaker but the increased resistance shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you are getting significant increased resistance along with a really gritty grinding feel, sort of like a sensation like you are strangling a bag of cats . Now it could lack oil or mabye grit or dirt that was in the watch finally made it's way into the winding mechanism, common enough issue.

A few things to check. Does the watch start on it's own from stopped? For instance can you put it on the wrist stopped and it starts up then set time and leave it on? Does it stop somewhere while wearing? Also from a stopped position wind it up about 40 or 50 times and set time and leave it down again, how long does it last before stopping? Also check how well it's keeping time against a quartz, is it losing or gaining significant time over 24 hrs? If it passes all these with flying colours it is probably ok. It may loosen up a little with use again.

Some eta and clone eta feel better than others, it can be pretty random, some are buttery smooth, others feel like stiff like locking a WWII submarine hatch. If it's keeping good time and auto winding as well as manual winding don't worry too much about it. If the worst happens then they are pretty easy swap out. The Seagull ST2130 is cheap as chips and a straight swap out.

Let us know how it goes!

Thanks Cougar. All of the things you mentioned are working fine, so that makes me feel better. The watch is keeping great time and the power reserve is pretty good. If I pull it out of the box and shake it a few seconds, it starts right up. And it's never stopped while wearing it. The only issue I've noticed is that there is a noticeable increase in the resistance when winding it manually. Although, I tried it again this morning (it wasn't stopped) and it felt fine like when I first bought it. So maybe I'm crazy.

My DSSD and my Tag AR500M wind up silky smooth and never give me any reason to doubt them. And my PAM177 handwind winds smoother than any of them. So that's what made me notice this one I think. After hearing all the replies, I think maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I just didn't want to keep doing something that was damaging the watch.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[cougar1]

The problem with handwinding 3 hand autos is not if there is a clutch or not, but the transmission of the gears when handwinding vs. winding by rotor. You are putting extreme stress on the teeth of the gears when winding it by hand.

AFAIK.

Yeah, you are right, there is definitely extra stress on the handwinding mechanism compared to the rotor winding, truth be told I prefer not to have to wind any watch but unfortunately sometimes it is necessary to get the cranky ones running . I much prefer to pick up a stopped watch, give it a gentle shake, set the time and stick it on the wrist. But if that doesn't work then the way I look at, (especially with some reps) is that there is even a separate (slight) risk in stripping or damaging the crown/tube when screwing back in the crown after resetting the time, so ten or twenty winds gently hopefully won't kill off the movement aswell!

There's a real difference when I wind my ST2130 and my 2824.1(don't ask me why I got a .1 and not a .2) in my PO compared to my 2846 that's in my AT. The latter has almost no resistance and no sound but the other two are/were pretty hard to wind - with both the sound and resistance of one of those little wind up toys I had as a kid. I much prefer the feel of the 2846 when winding it.

As for the Seagull, I got it on an Ebay auction but I'm sure it's possible to get them cheaper. I have a friend in Macao and I thought I'd ask him and see if he could get a hold of a few, but he's out of the country for a month more or so.

Yeah the new out of the box ST2130 are pretty smooth, clean and nicely oiled for the most part. Also the sellita SW200 in reps has a nice even smooth feel to it aswell. Just goes to show some rep eta can be very hit and miss, as you said when you took it open and saw the parts in bad condition. I feel less and less trustworthy of the swiss movements in reps of last few years, they were a bit more consistent a few years ago, they seem to be getting worse as time goes on. Saying that even 2824 in most gens don't always give consistent winding feel, some are much more stubborn than others.

Overall the 2892 (called 2846 in some reps) isn't a hugely more complex or expensive movement, it just feels so much better when winding and using, more sturdy and refined.

[cougar1]

Thanks Cougar. All of the things you mentioned are working fine, so that makes me feel better. The watch is keeping great time and the power reserve is pretty good. If I pull it out of the box and shake it a few seconds, it starts right up. And it's never stopped while wearing it. The only issue I've noticed is that there is a noticeable increase in the resistance when winding it manually. Although, I tried it again this morning (it wasn't stopped) and it felt fine like when I first bought it. So maybe I'm crazy.

My DSSD and my Tag AR500M wind up silky smooth and never give me any reason to doubt them. And my PAM177 handwind winds smoother than any of them. So that's what made me notice this one I think. After hearing all the replies, I think maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I just didn't want to keep doing something that was damaging the watch.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

Sounds good vandal.tbh, glad to hear it seems to be working somewhat normal, just keep an eye on it, if it is off the wrist for a long period of time it may just need some 'loosening up' I find that happens sometimes aswell with my watches. Not sure if is my imagination here either Not a scientific approach but I find stiffness/resistance is ok, they seem to go on lasting just fine, but a grinding gritty feel isn't the best indicator of movement health. Hopefully it will be fine, keep us posted. It would be extremely bad luck if you got another lemon after the last incident with PO's.

[om3ga_guy]

I had the same winding problem with my 42mm 5th gen ETA guys. I too had to manually wind the watch for a few weeks. This seems to be a common issue with the PO...when you shake it would start but stop after a few seconds. I would need to give it a good 20-30 turns via crown and it would run fine until I took it off. Some nights it would still stop but for the most part it ran "ok".

I ended up franken the @&$# out of it and dropped a new and serviced ST2130 myself. The movement took the gen parts perfectly with no mods. Its super smooth, very accurate and runs like a tank now.

Edited April 7, 2012 by om3ga_guy

[Jkay]

I had the same winding problem with my 42mm 5th gen ETA guys. I too had to manually wind the watch for a few weeks. This seems to be a common issue with the PO...when you shake it would start but stop after a few seconds. I would need to give it a good 20-30 turns via crown and it would run fine until I took it off. Some nights it would still stop but for the most part it ran "ok".

I ended up franken the @&$# out of it and dropped a new and serviced ST2130 myself. The movement took the gen parts perfectly with no mods. Its super smooth, very accurate and runs like a tank now.

It sounds like your gen ETA needed a simple service. Im glad your home-brew SeaGull swap went well!

[shirotenshi]

Similar problem with my PO, can anyone with the same problem tell me if this is what they experience?

Vid:

[vandal.tbh]

I haven't had the back off when winding it yet, but from the looks of the video, that seems to be the same thing I'm experiencing too. The watch works great other wise. Also, it seems to continue winding even as I twist the crown back in. Not sure if that's normal. It doesn't seem like any of my other watches do that.

[Jkay]

I haven't had the back off when winding it yet, but from the looks of the video, that seems to be the same thing I'm experiencing too. The watch works great other wise. Also, it seems to continue winding even as I twist the crown back in. Not sure if that's normal. It doesn't seem like any of my other watches do that.

If the watch winds while you screw it down, the stem is very slightly mis-sized. Too short.

[shirotenshi]

I haven't had the back off when winding it yet, but from the looks of the video, that seems to be the same thing I'm experiencing too. The watch works great other wise. Also, it seems to continue winding even as I twist the crown back in. Not sure if that's normal. It doesn't seem like any of my other watches do that.

Same, winding while i try to screw back, is making it rather hard to screw.

If the watch winds while you screw it down, the stem is very slightly mis-sized. Too short.

It seems like a rather common problem?

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/2824-2-too-hard-wind-manually-even-after-no-power-reserve-454415.html

[kbh]

Why reps are often hard to wind. Here's a picture of the mainspring when I had my new 288K serviced. And we wonder why they don't last. Takes a lot of pressure to wind a spring full of dried up oil residue.