What is "Service" a AP?

[Luizin2004]

Hi guys.Ive seen many posts telling that you MUST service the AP when you buy it...

I have a question...What services are done when you send the watch to be serviced?

Does any good watchsmith have knowledge to do this services?

I'm from Brasil, and i'm getting a little worried abou the @sec12 movement issues...

I have a great watchsmith here in Brazil, who fixed my GMT master II swiss eta 2836 when it stops date and time...He changed some pieces, and the watch is running smooth and keeping perfect time!

My question is...Do you guus think any good watchsmith can have the AP movement serviced?

Or is it to difficulty that only watchsmiths with knowledge sbout this movement can do the job?

Thanks for your time!

[Luizin2004]

And if its possible that he can service my watch, what should i tell him to "service"?

[FxrAndy]

A service on a mechanical movement involves a complete strip down of every part, cleaning, reassembly and oiling with the correct oils, this movement being modified makes it more difficult, but if he can properly service a 7750 then he should be able to do this.

[Jkay]

Your watchmaker must be comfortable with chronograph movements to work on the 7750.

[Guest Daytona1984]

just servicing won't fix the sec@12 problem in the long run...

[DamonHorse]

Why is the seconds at 12 movement so brittle? What is it that means it breaks so regularly.

Got my new one in being serviced as I type as this should make it run better and less likely to eat itself but it's ot going to fix it forever.

I've said it many times on here but if they made a clone movement rep withhe correct crown position and date position that didn't kill itself the. I would pay a good amount for that.

The ROOs aren't cheap as they are and the truth is you never know when it may go bang!

[sneed12]

I've said it many times on here but if they made a clone movement rep withhe correct crown position and date position that didn't kill itself the. I would pay a good amount for that.

And if they made a Honda that looks and drives like a Ferrari people would buy that too.

"Cloning" a movement is not simple at all. Look at all the struggles that the factories have gone through with the SA3135 (kudos to them for trying though). Now imagine a rep factory deciding to try and clone a DD chronograph module. Those things are complicated enough that most watchmakers won't service them, how is a rep factory going to build one, and why would they bother when the 7750-based reps sell already?

[DamonHorse]

Sneed. They did and it was called the NSX. And nobody bought it actually.

They would bother because they could charge a lot of money for them. They're cloning the panerai power reserve movement so there is a desire to do it.

Perhaps not a clone then but something that didn't eat itself.

If everyone thought like that there'd be no progress.

Edited June 19, 2012 by DamonHorse

[sneed12]

Sneed. They did and it was called the NSX. And nobody bought it actually.

Are you joking? They sold over 18k NSX over the original 15 year production run. Ferrari sold 3-4k cars per year over the same period (they sell more units now).

Besides, the NSX was as much about research as it was about selling cars.

They would bother because they could charge a lot of money for them.

What makes you think that, and how much do you think is "a lot"? The market for $500+ reps isn't that big. We here at these forums are a small slice of the watch buying population.

They're cloning the panerai power reserve movement so there is a desire to do it.

It's a much simpler module to copy than the DD chrono module.

Perhaps not a clone then but something that didn't eat itself.

Physics is physics. Adding extra gears to move outputs around adds friction. There is no way around it.

If everyone thought like that there'd be no progress.

I'm a scientist who works at the LHC. I fully understand the nature of progress.

You are asking "stupid" questions--that's not an insult, but it's clear from the nature of your questions that you don't understand the basic mechanics of watch movements or of our reps. There's a reason why almost all reps are based on one of three movements, and there is really only one automatic chronograph movement available to us. It's like asking "why don't they make a car that can fly?"

The only automatic chronograph movement that can be sourced cheaply enough to be practical for reps is the A7750. Modifying it is problematic, due to the construction techniques that the rep factories use. Even watches where the gen movement IS a modified 7750 (like the IWC 3714) make for problematic reps.

The reps the factories make sell. Why would they spend more to make watches that few would buy?

[DamonHorse]

I really don't understand your stance here. If there weren't improvements in rep quality then it would still be the same vaguely correct pieces that used to be made and sold for less than they do now.

I can't see the argument that there wouldn't be a desire to improve the products when they are always constantly evolving anyway.

As for understanding the mechanics you're absolutely right but that isn't to say that there aren't improvements that can be made. As a scientist you should be all for striving to overachieve. But evidently not.

Oh and selling a thousand cars a year isn't what I would call a massive success. But then again perhaps you know better there too.

[sneed12]

Oh and selling a thousand cars a year isn't what I would call a massive success. But then again perhaps you know better there too.

Really? Selling nearly 1 NSX for every 3 Ferraris isn't what you'd call a "massive success"? A clean-sheet supercar design from a brand-new "luxury" marque (Acura launched in 1986, and yes I know that the NSX was sold as a Honda in many parts of the world) that could compete head-to-head against a long-established Italian luxury brand selling a thousand cars a year was... a failure? Are you nuts?

I ran a Mitsubishi store for about 4 years, I know the car business pretty well. Honda hit a home run with the NSX. A supercar like that is never going to sell 20k units per year, there simply aren't that many buyers. They got a halo car for Acura, they got lots of R&D for their F1 program, and they got 15 years of sales out of it.

[sneed12]

I split the watch stuff and the Honda stuff into two separate posts, since they were starting to diverge.

I really don't understand your stance here.

It's not a "stance." I attempted to answer your question. You asked: "why don't the rep factories do X" and I said "because it's technically difficult, they wouldn't make much money on it, and the watches they already make sell just fine."

I can't see the argument that there wouldn't be a desire to improve the products when they are always constantly evolving anyway.

A new cloned DD chronograph module wouldn't be an "improvement." It would be a whole new product, more complicated and finicky than anything that the Chinese factories make now, especially at the price point that reps sell at.

That's why I said, you don't understand the magnitude of the question you're asking. You're asking "why isn't my car a rocket ship." The rep factories build cars, and they can make them better and better all the time, but they can't just turn around and make rocket ships.

The factories use just a few base movements, because those are the movements that they're already equipped to build. They can turn out a whole lot of A7750s. To build a different kind of chrono movement would require a whole new assembly line, essentially a new factory. Look at how much trouble we've had just getting a decent 7753 out of the factories--and that's the same basic movement as the 7750!

Adding gears to move the output from 9 to 12 is easy. Building a true seconds at 12 movement would be very, very hard.

[Luizin2004]

And this new movement with updated jewel?Is more reliable?

[DamonHorse]

Sneed - that makes sense to me. I fully see your point on that.

I hope that where will be a way of improving reliablity somehow in the future - but if that doesn't mean a new movement then so be it.